Thalmor

Well, it should be noted that there's evidence to suggest that even though homosexual behavior has been observed, that animals never pick a homosexual relationship over a heterosexual one. "Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity." Source: (In order of relevance) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals#cite_note-8 Levay, Simon (1996). !@#$ Science: The Use and Abuse of Research into Homosexuality. Cambridge, Massachusetts: MIT Press. p. 207. So I don't know if you can use animals as a point of reference into determining what's normal and what's not normal for marriage within humans. In terms of some aquatic life and insects, there are creatures that are capable of both fertilizing eggs and laying theme. Plus, a lot of mammals will go from one partner to the next, while in modern human sexuality, cheating is frowned upon.

Well, in your scenario, let's assume that the Presidential election is not a part of it, and that Congress declares a national vote in early September that President Obama allows. In this case, I wouldn't vote. This is because I can't actively support - and give credit to - something that I view as sin. But, as stated earlier, I can't force people to live a specific way.

I'm going to assume you're speaking to me because I've been the most vocal on this thread in terms of opposition. As said earlier, the biggest reason why I do not believe homosexuals - you - should not get married is because I believe that it would bring more sexual perversion as people call for more ''liberties'' in regards to sexual rights. These, in theory, would include bestiality, pedophilia, polygamy, etc, and other things. Examples: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/gay-marriage-decision-polygamy-119469.html#.VZB2kkZhPMq http://truthuncensored.net/university-academics-say-pedophilia-is-natural-for-males-aroused-by-children/#sthash.2fk2Uow5.Jv8Ut95w.dpbs http://truthuncensored.net/university-academics-say-pedophilia-is-natural-for-males-aroused-by-children/#sthash.2fk2Uow5.Jv8Ut95w.dpbs http://www.thelocal.no/20150625/norway-to-let-7-yr-old-change-gender http://www.vice.com/read/after-gay-marriage-why-not-polygamy Furthermore, the religious freedom of some institutions are being stepped on: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/20/idaho-citys-ordinance-tells-pastors-to-marry-gays-/ http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/millionaire-gay-couple-suing-force-church-hold-wedding/ http://www.charismanews.com/us/50277-government-charges-farmers-with-discrimination-fines-for-refusing-to-host-gay-wedding Now, Roma did make a good case against what I just said. Scandinavia, as a whole, does indeed have no particular increase in pedophilia or polygamy. As a result of this, I did take a step back and reconsider where I stand on the issue coming from that aspect The only other reason why I would oppose gay marriage comes from the fact that God hates gay sex. Note that I said gay sex and not homosexuality in general. This is because each time homosexuality is brought up in the Bible, it always speaks of gay sex, and does not ever mention the attraction of males to males, or females to females. It is only brought up as in referring to perversion. However, even then, it's up to each person to decide rather or not they'll following the commandments of God, and so I'm not in a position to judge or persecute anybody for their decision. It is a Christian's job to love people unconditionally. So, in that case, do whatever you desire. After all, God gives you the freedom to choose, so why shouldn't I?

Oh come on, the preservation of the Union is more important than any one social issue. Besides, even if they did secede, it's not like they would be able to keep their independence.

Deciding that the recent tragedy at the power plant was a good enough of an excuse to try to make a case to the general population that he himself, the King of Petravillas, was a legitimate ruler, he prepared a speech. Using the recent inventions, the established military, and the effort that was made into getting the power plant online, he made a case to the people. The speech was well received, and the people were convinced. The people that were skeptical had (most) of their concerns satisfied, and were willing to give the King a fair chance. The Iven refugees are content with the matter. _____________________________________________________________ There have been no changes in the map. Status: Food Rating: 70% / A fair amount of variety and a lot of it. Military Rating: 35% / A smaller force of decent strength. Stability: 70% / The people are content. Technology Rating: 25% / Little progress has been made since The Fall. Infrastructure: 40% / Some areas are dangerous to travel; main roads are well maintained. Economy: 55% / Trade is alright, but could be better. Actions: A - Improve the food situation / Make it a general goal to increase the number of livestock and crops. B - Improve the military situation / (Must wait one more turn before using this decision again.) C - Focus on internal reforms / Try to add structure and organization to the government. D - Put effort into improving technology / (Must wait four turns before using this decision again.) E - Rebuild Infrastructure / Focus on maintaining roads. F - Manage the Economy / Address the current government budget. SPECIAL: I - Attack!: Assault the Skullcrusher position to the east of Outer Petravillas. II - Attack!: Assault Skullcrusher-occupied Apol.

In the sense that we're fallible, mortal creatures that are flawed, yes. The biggest difference between man and animals, however, is that we're the only living creatures God made that's in his own image: Genesis 1:27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Of course, that's religious. But I believe a secular case could be made by stating that our ability to comprehend morality and our intelligence puts us above animals. Plus, we control them (As in, breed them en mass and specifically so that we can eat them) and have driven many different species to extinction. I mean, who eats who 99% of the time in modern society?

At least the Thalmor were better than those inbred stormcloaks. >Implying a war-torn, newly independent Skyrim could take on the Thalmor.

Against the wishes of some advisers, the King of Petravillas is determined to get the power plant back online. Just like last time, excessive labor on the part of the more educated citizens is executed. However, stress brought upon by constant experimental and questionable maintenance (due to poor understanding) results in an explosion, killing eleven people and badly damaging important parts of the power plant. Despite the damage, the causalities can be made up, and the damage can be repaired; it would take a small while though. The result is a drop in confidence in the government, although generally, life goes on. The King of Petravillas decides to leave the power plant alone for now. _____________________________________________________________ Skullcrushes are sending in commando teams to flank and assault the zombie horde down south, with varying levels of success. Cultural clashes between Iven refugees and the native citizens of Petravillas in causing unrest. Crime has went up. There have been no changes in the map. Status: Food Rating: 70% / A fair amount of variety and a lot of it. Military Rating: 35% / A smaller force of decent strength. Stability: 40% / A lot of frustration over current affairs. Technology Rating: 25% / Little progress has been made since The Fall. Infrastructure: 40% / Some areas are dangerous to travel; main roads are well maintained. Economy: 50% / Trade is alright, but could be better. Actions: A - Improve the food situation / Make it a general goal to increase the number of livestock and crops. B - Improve the military situation / (Must wait two turns before using this decision again.) C - Focus on internal reforms / Address the concerns of more liberal citizens. D - Put effort into improving technology / (Must wait five turns before using this decision again.) E - Rebuild Infrastructure / Focus on maintaining roads. F - Manage the Economy / Address the current government budget. SPECIAL: I - Attack!: Assault the Skullcrusher position to the east of Outer Petravillas. II - Attack!: Assault Skullcrusher-occupied Apol.

It's not even about two gay people getting married! Good Lord, if that's all it's about, I probably wouldn't even care! No, the problem is that once homosexuality becomes widely accepted (and the recent hearing as already guaranteed that) then other forms of moral degeneracy follows. Another thing is that religious freedom is about to get stepped on hard because homosexual couples will start suing churches en mass for not allowing them to marry. It's done happened a few times, and after the recent hearing, it's going to happen more. http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/millionaire-gay-couple-suing-force-church-hold-wedding/ Furthermore, there's already pushes for polygamy and pedophilia to become widely accepted. Example: http://patdollard.com/2013/07/it-begins-pedophiles-call-for-same-rights-as-homosexuals/ http://www.vice.com/read/after-gay-marriage-why-not-polygamy ''But those are from 2013!'' Okay, have some from yesterday/today: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/gay-marriage-decision-polygamy-119469.html#.VY8eGkZhPMp http://truthuncensored.net/university-academics-say-pedophilia-is-natural-for-males-aroused-by-children/#sthash.2fk2Uow5.pDyEYeiq.dpbs This is why gay marriage is wrong. It's not about two guys/women getting married, it's about the resulting moral decline that comes from further progression into the backwards ''sexual revolution'' ''...all because they're afraid of the reaction from people such as yourself.'' You know, how dare you accuse me of being hostile to homosexuals in person, and that I don't have any form of compassion for them. This is part of the reason why I unsubscribed from the pro-LGBT agenda, the hostility of those that are pro-LGBT to are anti-LGBT is astounding. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot?s=t The definition of a bigot, according to the above link, is ''a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.'' In my first post to this thread, I clearly said at the bottom that I was open to all arguments. Many people who are pro-LGBT seem not to be. As I said (and showed) in the first paragraph in this specific post, there's a lot of other moral degeneracy that follows the acceptance of gay marriage. The right of the state - not just the right, but the responsibility - is to protect it's citizens. Of course, the line where personal freedom and government privilege meet is blurry, very much so in fact. So, I'm very reluctant to support ideas which grant the government more power. Homosexuality, specifically gay marriage, is where the government should intervene to stop it's people from falling into a moral trap. Of course, gay people have the right to be gay, they can't really change that and shouldn't have any bodily harm brought upon them for being who they are. They can enjoy those feelings behind closed doors, then. I think I already made clear why that is.

This is an idea I can get behind. I know the Libertarians (I would know, I use to be one) would often say that the government has no place in marriage.

Thank you for the civil response back, along with the recognition! A big issue is that people let their ideas become greater than themselves due to a lack of their own knowledge, and so they become violent and may lash out (in a way) against their ideas. For example, I may have been completely different and say ''KILL DE !@#$S LULZ'' and then if you responded the same way, just tastelessly say that I had intercourse with your mother and call you names - and that's certainly no way to change another person's mind. Again, thank you for your own civility. In return, I hope you continue on yourself, and may realize that what you may believe may be different from reality. To be honest, I was once pro-LGBT myself; there's a reason why I'm not now. Of course, maybe I am indeed wrong.

Of course not, but to use the argument ''I doubt you wouldn't think that if X'' is to say that ''I have nothing to say, so I'm going to throw the argument back at you.'' ''We should ban guns!'' ''I doubt you'd be saying that if you manufactured/own guns!'' ''We should promote B over A!'' ''I doubt you say that if you are sponsored by A!'' ''We should go after corrupt teachers at the high school!'' ''I don't think you would say that if you were a teacher at that high school!'' Furthermore, what both of you said is directly an appeal to emotions. Emotions can askew rational decision making, so I don't really care much for them.

Upon further research, you are correct on the first sentence. I retract my statements regarding that line. Straight couples want to get married because it's a sign of love, it's the ultimate statement of ''we are a couple.'' There are, however, government-granted benefits to being married that some people may disagree with actually even existing in the first place. I didn't say that children who are artificially conceived suffer from shorter lifespans. I meant that it was homosexuals themselves. Upon review, I see why my sentence structure would lead people to believe I said that; my apologies. Except that some people who practice bestiality wish to push for it at some point: http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/news/those-who-practice-bestiality-say-theyre-part-of-the-next-sexual-rights-movement-6334747 Homosexual behavior has been observed in a lot of animals, yes, but ''Simon LeVau introduced the further caveat that ''although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity.'' Source: Levay, Simon (1996). !@#$ Science: The Use and Abuse of Research into Homosexuality. Cambridge, Massachusetts: MIT Press. p. 207. No, they do not suffer from the same disease. I think it's a testament to human intelligence that they're not victims to instinct. Not to say humans don't have instinct, of course. Haha, alright, you got me. With your first few sentences, are you implying that the U.S. would be akin to Sudan or Afghanistan if the U.S. didn't recognize gay marriage? You can't take one issue and go ''Yeah, despite our modern justice systems, grand educational institutions, common law, and vast wealth, we'd just be like people in Africa/The Middle East if we didn't (insert specific social issue here)'' Yeah, you will more than likely see more 3rd world nations become more tolerate and stop killing homosexuals in the coming decades. I can't criticize that. Again, this my fault, I didn't make myself clear enough. I meant that the symbolic meaning of it was lost with the fact that it's corrupt. To put it into perspective, what if President Joe took a lot of bribes, and for the bribes, supported gun rights and for a specific lesson in schools to be taught. Along the way, he's bribed to support voting rights for ethnic Yuri's. I mean, it's a good thing practically that the ethnic Yuri's have voting rights, but symbolically, is it? It's good that it happened, but it happened artificially. _______________________________________________________ By the way, Cody K, I wanted to say that I appreciate how you listed your sources, that's pretty cool.

Your argument boils down into a logical fallacy, specifically the ''bandwagon'' fallacy. Just because the rest of the ''developed world'' is doing something, doesn't mean the U.S. should. If the Eurozone suddenly increased their minimum wage to 25 euros an hour, gave each woman a 3-year paid maternity leave, and required employers to employees give 1-month paid vacations, does that mean the U.S. should?

There's a small Dioist population here in The Evenstar, but they're to small of a minority to be able to tell rather or not they're violent. They immigrated over here because of the Great VE War.

LOVE WINS No it doesn't...? Gay people have always been able to be in relationships, it just couldn't be a marriage. Marriage has always been defined by the constitutions of several states as being between a man and a woman. In this decision, the Supreme Court as said ''lol, we don't care'' and has just stomped all over that. They stomped all over the states that give them the rights to even have power. The only thing that gay couples gain from this is the same benefits that heterosexual couples get when they marry, so why even celebrate this decision so happily as so many people have? As OP is doing? Homosexuals still can't have their own children without complex medical procedures; and they still die sooner. Also, If your only basis of what is right when it comes to sexual attraction is ''love'' then why can't a person marry a truck? What about marrying a horse? What about, even, a preteen? Where can a society take a step back and go ''This isn't right.'' Furthermore, what's the one thing that all animals have in common? They want to reproduce. Homosexuals, really by their very definition, cannot reproduce. Most homosexuals will also claim to have been born gay. Putting this information together, we can conclude that there's something in their brain telling them to be attracted to people of the same gender, thus forgoing millions of years of evolution and the macro sexual norms of 99% of the global population...for...some reason. With this in mind, we can conclude that homosexuality is a mental disease. So the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of less than 2% of the population - who have mental deficiencies - against the written constitution of many states, against the views of tens of millions of Americans. It's also not much of a win once you consider that there's several countries in which being gay is punishable by death. So we can celebrate that homosexuals have a few more privileges over here in the U.S., but in the grand scheme of things concerning the gay rights movement, it's not a huge victory globally. One could argue that it's more symbolic than anything else. That could be true, until you consider that the Supreme Court is - as most of Washington is - bought off by tons of companies and corporations. Such a corrupt institution forgoes any legibility once they become corrupt and remain so for many years. It's symbolic value is also not pragmatic once you consider that, as stated above, tens of millions of Americans aren't in favor of it. Finally, I am very confident that this isn't the last thing we'll see out of the LGBT rights movement. Within a few years, they'll push some sort of other extreme. It could be open marriages between multiple people, marriages between children, marriages between people and objects, etc. It'll also all be under the guise of ''equality'' and ''progress'' and the same arguments will be used as they've been used with this issue. GG no re P.S: Of course, I'm open to any counter-arguments anybody as: if you think I'm wrong on anything, please state so and explain why.

The Light Federation should declare a war of unification on The Lite Federation. I mean, The Light Federation can't get any infamy because they have cores on them anyways.

One world government when?!

Can jet fuel melt steel beams?

Swelled with confidence with the recent new inventions and schools, the King of Petravillas decides to try to get the local power plant online. The two major things stopping such an ambitious goal from coming together are the lack of knowledge and no fuel source. Nobody knows how to get such a large thing started, and the Petravillas Power Station uses coal, which isn't particularly rare, but is uncommon and very expensive. A nation-wide task is undertaken to find a book or some other piece of information that may be useful. Some information is discovered, but isn't quite enough. Locals, travelers, and passing traders are asked plenty of questions, but only scant information is gathered. Keeping what little information they've gathered in mind, the King of Petravillas gathers together a team of mechanics, engineers, craftsmen, and teachers. They spend a whole weekend surveying the entire building. In the end, they are unable to bring the station back online. However, by tinkering with all the engineer, maintenance, and control rooms, they were able to learn more about the building. Still, it would probably be best to wait until both more educated people could be summoned, and more information could be learned. before attempting such a thing again. Despite the failure, the people are happy such an attempt was made, and have put slightly more faith in the King. _____________________________________________________________ The zombies seem to have been able to break the Skullcrusher's defensive lines, resulting in moderate casualties to the Skullcrushers down south. There have been no changes in the map. Status: Food Rating: 70% / A fair amount of variety and a lot of it. Military Rating: 35% / A smaller force of decent strength. Stability: 55% / A fair amount of frustration over current affairs. Technology Rating: 25% / Little progress has been made since The Fall. Infrastructure: 45% / Some areas are dangerous to travel; main roads are well maintained. Economy: 50% / Trade is alright, but could be better. Actions: A - Improve the food situation / Make it a general goal to increase the number of livestock and crops. B - Improve the military situation / (Must wait three turns before using this decision again.) C - Focus on internal reforms / Address the concerns of more liberal citizens. D - Put effort into improving technology / Attempt (again) to bring the old power plant back online. E - Rebuild Infrastructure / Focus on maintaining roads. F - Manage the Economy / Address the current government budget. SPECIAL: I - Attack!: Assault the Skullcrusher position to the east of Outer Petravillas. II - Attack!: Assault Skullcrusher-occupied Apol.

(We got 4 different responses, two of whom are for D, so that's what we're going with.) _____________________________________________________________ Deciding that an increased amount of educated people working with tools would be a good way to see some new inventions crop up, the King of Petravillas decides to invest in general carpentry, increasing the number of craftsman. Immediately, students work together to create small new items that make some basic tasks easier. Seeing investment made in education - and seeing that some things are made easier because of it - calms people down some and makes them put faith in the King. The new technology is also traded with and some craftsmen get put to work maintaining roads and buildings. _____________________________________________________________ Skullcrushers battle the zombies harshly. Neither side appears to be winning the battle down south. There have been no changes to the map. Status: Food Rating: 70% / A fair amount of variety and a lot of it. Military Rating: 35% / A smaller force of decent strength. Stability: 50% / A lot of frustration over current affairs. Technology Rating: 25% / Little progress has been made since The Fall. Infrastructure: 45% / Some areas are dangerous to travel; main roads are well maintained. Economy: 50% / Trade is alright, but could be better. A - Improve the food situation / Make it a general goal to increase the number of livestock and crops. B - Improve the military situation / (Must wait four turns before using this decision again.) C - Focus on internal reforms / Address the concerns of more liberal citizens. D - Put effort into improving technology / Attempt to repair the old power plant. E - Rebuild Infrastructure / Focus on maintaining roads. F - Manage the Economy / Address the current government budget. SPECIAL: I - Attack!: Assault the Skullcrusher position to the east of Outer Petravillas. II - Attack!: Assault Skullcrusher-occupied Apol.

I like it!

Passing hunters and travelers report about three buses parked east of Outer Petravillas. Numbers range from 30-70 individuals. There are lightly armed - some more than others - and some are obviously civilian. At Apol, the few traders that the Skullcrushers are friendly to report that the number of Skullcrushers that inhabit the town number only about 130, the majority of whom are civilian. It should be noted that Apol is fortified. Apol is much more valuable of a target, and taking it over would put a line of defense between the Skullcrushers and Outer Petravillas. It's risky, though.

Still not satisfied with the army, the King of Petravillas decides to reach out to the former-military elements of the Royal Petravillas Army. After speaking with them for several hours, he grasps what pre-war military training standards were. Using this information, he puts the entirety of the army through training programs, increasing the overall effectiveness. The recent addition of a wage to the army also encourages some other people to join, and due to the recent training programs, they become a very useful addition to the force. The army now numbered at 200 soldiers, divided now into ten twenty-man teams. _____________________________________________________________ The Kingdom of Iven has recently collapsed due to the pressure of foreign invasion, and the Skullcrushers have taken over all of Iven. More Skullcrusher buses also been sighted east of Outer Petravillas. Both of these events have hurt stability and trade. The zombie horde southwest of Terras has begun to assault the Skullcrusher-held countryside southeast of Iven, distracting them considerably. There's been some changes to the map: Status: Food Rating: 65% / A fair amount of variety and a lot of it. Military Rating: 35% / A smaller force of decent strength. Stability: 40% / A lot of frustration over current affairs. Technology Rating: 20% / Little progress has been made since The Fall. Infrastructure: 40% / Many areas are dangerous to travel, but main roads are acceptable. Economy: 40% / Trade is okay, but could be better. Actions: A - Improve the food situation / Make it a general goal to increase the number of livestock and crops. B - Improve the military situation / (Must wait five turns before using this decision again.) C - Focus on internal reforms / Address the concerns of more liberal citizens. D - Put effort into improving technology / Establish schools and invest in technical schools. E - Rebuild Infrastructure / Focus on maintaining roads. F - Manage the Economy / Address the current government budget. SPECIAL: I - Attack!: Assault the Skullcrusher position to the east of Outer Petravillas. II - Attack!: Assault Skullcrusher-occupied Apol.

Deciding that the army still wasn't where it needed to be, the King if Petravillas decides to further add onto the army. A number of decisions take place: 1 - By reaching out to former military and ex-policemen, the army grows to about 100 members. 2 - The army is officially named the Royal Petravillas Army. 3 - The army is organized into ten ten-man squads, with one squad leader and a second-in-command to each squad. 4 - Various AR-15's are bought up from the market and from passing traders. 5 - Soldiers are officially paid a small wage. 6 - Soldiers were encouraged to provide their own sidearms and melee weapons. 2/3 of the army now carry handguns of some kind, and about 45% carry some sort of blade with them. __________________________________________ Two Skullcrusher buses have been sighted patrolling east of Outer Petravillas. There have been no changes in the map. Food Rating: 75% / A lot of variety and plenty of it! Military Rating: 25% / A small force of okay strength. Stability: 55% / A lot of frustration over current affairs. Technology Rating: 20% / Little progress has been made since The Fall. Infrastructure: 40% / Many areas are dangerous to travel, but main roads are acceptable. Economy: 55% / Trade is doing fine and expanding slowly. A - Improve the food situation / Make it a general goal to increase the number of livestock and crops. B - Improve the military situation / Add on official training standards. C - Focus on internal reforms / Address the concerns of more liberal citizens. D - Put effort into improving technology / Establish schools and invest in technical schools. E - Rebuild Infrastructure / Focus on maintaining roads. F - Manage the Economy / Address the current government budget.