Philosphy's Not Dead

To be fair, the premise of the game is international realism. The idea of somehow there is a just and moral methodology of politics in a realist paradigm itself is absurd. TEst's extraction of terms is a very rational act in their own interests, although in terrible taste to the rest of the community that has traditionally only forced terms on aggressive actor. War inevitably produces a victor -that climbs further to heights of power- and a loser, that declines. To somehow maintain the realist paradigm AND not have a hegemon, it requires something along the lines of an annual rolling of GPA by the community at large. 

 

Like Perf said before, the critical difference between TEst and GPA is TEst is actively involved in maintaining political relationships behind the scenes. The GPA doesn't care enough to maintain any, and would likely not see an attack coming, much less prevent it through backroom dealing. It's highly unlikely, if not impossible in the current political climate, that TEst will ever find itself in the position that the GPA did, simply due to that difference. 

 

Trying to somehow shame TEst into giving terms is probably going to backfire, tbh. They have power and they know it. They have strong political ties and enough inter-alliance savvy to know they could do whatever they wanted to TFP, which has no allies to back them up in the fight. 

To be fair, the premise of the game is international realism. The idea of somehow there is a just and moral methodology of politics in a realist paradigm itself is absurd. TEst's extraction of terms is a very rational act in their own interests, although in terrible taste to the rest of the community that has traditionally only forced terms on aggressive actor. War inevitably produces a victor -that climbs further to heights of power- and a loser, that declines. To somehow maintain the realist paradigm AND not have a hegemon, it requires something along the lines of an annual rolling of GPA by the community at large. 

 

Like Perf said before, the critical difference between TEst and GPA is TEst is actively involved in maintaining political relationships behind the scenes. The GPA doesn't care enough to maintain any, and would likely not see an attack coming, much less prevent it through backroom dealing. It's highly unlikely, if not impossible in the current political climate, that TEst will ever find itself in the position that the GPA did, simply due to that difference. 

 

Trying to somehow shame TEst into giving terms is probably going to backfire, tbh. They have power and they know it. They have strong political ties and enough inter-alliance savvy to know they could do whatever they wanted to TFP, which has no allies to back them up in the fight. 

 

The point isn't morality - every Green Neutral needs to be declared on sometimes.

 

The point is reality. To continue the war at this point could have world-wide repercussions as instead of pushing the neutrals into involvement, they're pushing the leaders out of our world entirely. 

 

 

No one benefits from that.

Also what world are you living in where TEst imposing a custom flag as the only peace term is "in their interest" beyond giving TEst leadership some pride points on successfully rolling a Pacifist alliance utilizing two other alliances (and now various raiders)?

The point isn't morality - every Green Neutral needs to be declared on sometimes.

 

The point is reality. To continue the war at this point could have world-wide repercussions as instead of pushing the neutrals into involvement, they're pushing the leaders out of our world entirely. 

 

 

No one benefits from that.

 

I think the consequences of the war can only be speculated on for now. Whether or not leaders will leave the community, I would still argue that this "crusade" against neutrals is within TEst's interests. This war may push TFP into forming treaties and ties. My previous blogs have talked about TEst's strengths in its ability to stay between spheres and manipulate sides to enter wars that are to their advantage, so it is logically in the interest of TEst to ensure that no top 15 alliance is not aligned with a sphere and to maintain spheres in general.

 

Also what world are you living in where TEst imposing a custom flag as the only peace term is "in their interest" beyond giving TEst leadership some pride points on successfully rolling a Pacifist alliance utilizing two other alliances (and now various raiders)?

 

It's a humiliation tactic, I think designed to specifically nudge people towards more treaties and alliances to prevent it from ever happening. Again, it's in TEst's interest to maintain spheres. 

IMO, TEst is keeping the game interesting and fun. If TFP would just show some personality and charisma about the situation I'm sure TEst leadership would come to an agreement. I know it's not my intention to get "pride points" with the custom flag. It's actually an awesome flag and coming to agreement with us could have actually created a collegial relationship with them.

This doesnt do harm to the game at all. TFP contributes nothing. TEst does, this keeps our membership active untill the next fun thing rolls around, thus its good for the game.

You'r logic is flawed.

 

But ill explain the situation to you if you want,

When we go out and hunt we always try to offer some sort of deal as soon as their units are blown up and the fun is gone, Infra grinding are for midtier alliances.

GPA took the flag, Pantheon got beige and a 2. round on Ace too shorten his lead over therest of the world alittle and so forth.

 

Now, TFP got the same offer, a flag. However, they repeatedly disrespected our representatives and acted in a childish and frankly unbearable manner.

Thats the reason we are sticking with the demands. If they had acted difrently we would have too. The current sitiation is not on us. It rests entirely on Cromwell and his successors failure to communicate in a civilized manner.

 

Now feel free to keep calling us evil and bad winners and what not. We dont really care about that.

This doesnt do harm to the game at all. TFP contributes nothing. TEst does, this keeps our membership active untill the next fun thing rolls around, thus its good for the game.

You'r logic is flawed.

 

But ill explain the situation to you if you want,

When we go out and hunt we always try to offer some sort of deal as soon as their units are blown up and the fun is gone, Infra grinding are for midtier alliances.

GPA took the flag, Pantheon got beige and a 2. round on Ace too shorten his lead over therest of the world alittle and so forth.

 

Now, TFP got the same offer, a flag. However, they repeatedly disrespected our representatives and acted in a childish and frankly unbearable manner.

Thats the reason we are sticking with the demands. If they had acted difrently we would have too. The current sitiation is not on us. It rests entirely on Cromwell and his successors failure to communicate in a civilized manner.

 

Now feel free to keep calling us evil and bad winners and what not. We dont really care about that.

 

I don't necessarily think TEst is pursuing this to intentionally be dicks for no reason. I think you guys made a mistake in continuing the war out of spite rather than admiring their persistence - even if it arrived in the form of petulance.

 

You hit an isolated alliance, with no reason other than a jokepost, that has no idea how to conduct basic FA. Of course they acted foolish in negotiations. That's why it's up to you as the experienced, established group to show them the way - not crush them in their (likely) first meaningful interaction with the larger community.

 

 

I singularly have no interest in seeing people driven from the game. That is my only qualm. Otherwise I'm in full support of giving every neutral, inactive, or passive alliance a "wake up call" war.

Again tho, we have done everything in our power short of white peace in order to help them to find an end to This boring war. If we did just give in, we'd be saying its okay to act like that. Thats not Helpfull at all. They've put themselfs in a postition that require sacrifice to Get out of, if they offer us more or less anything, i think we'll take it and call it a day.

If you are so concerned about their welfare talk to them, not us.

Well there is no rule saying that we must automatically peace out alliances we beat. If TEst wants to, TFP is at their mercy. If TFP wishes to keep getting rolled, TEst will be happy to provide (look at NPO!)

 

And in the end, I do believe TEst contributes more to the game. War is a nice dynamic in the game - and they contribute more to keeping alliances fresh than all the neutrals combined - why? Cause they're all neutrals.

Honestly TFP's biggest problem was trying to drag everything into a public spotlight with replying in that thread the way they did. You can't spit out our lenient terms publicly and be let walk free. That looks bad on us. So next time we're trying to get a silly flag or something done in a war some alliance can just TFP threw fit in public and they got white peace.. 

 

Lets be honest, our terms are very lenient. Sure, you can think they're insulting but a month goes by quick. And it's just you Alliance page that flies it, not the nations. Had they actually mounted some sort of real retaliation to go with all their big words we likely would've gone "hey, they do have some fight in them and aren't that bad", and then had let them go simply for trying. We like pluckiness. It goes a long way.

 

But we're past that point now. We've come up with a different peace term that is light-hearted as well. Hopefully they take that one. 

King Cheng enfeoffed Bo Qin [the Duke of Zhou's son] as the Duke of Lu. Summoning him, he addressed him, saying: "Do you know the Way of acting as the ruler over the people? ... Should you possess the civil but lack the martial, you will have no means to awe those below. Should you possess the martial but lack the civil, the people will fear you but not draw close. If the civil and martial are implemented together, then your awe-inspiring virtue will be achieved.