Doktor Avalanche Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Not all Christian faiths consider the Sacred Scriptures to be the Infallible, Divine Inspired, Perfect Word of God. 1 Beer. Damn Good Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ap Ioan Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Personally I would say the criterion is whether they adhere to the Nicene Creed or not. I don't have any problem with those who don't, in fact I wish them well because we all get to meet God in the end. I don't advocate their murder and I don't think that any real Christian would or could. Still a man hears what he wants to hearAnd disregards the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace and War Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Footage from 2 years ago. How do you know they are Sunnis? What do you mean? The soldier straight up asked them what they where, the two said they where Sunni Muslims. Right after their trucks where stopped. "Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Fundamentalism in Christianity is to take every word on its own merit, fundamentalist treat the bible as a tool of science. They take no note of the massive debates of the first century of which they have not heard. All christians adhere to the fundamental principles that Jesus laid down. We believe Jesus to be more than a prophet and thus his words have more clout than the OT. Remember that Ibrahim is a fundamentalist so anyone who isn't is a heretic. It is inconceivable for him for there to be acceptance of other branches, that good old intolerance he says his religion is against. What do you mean? The soldier straight up asked them what they where, the two said they where Sunni Muslims. Right after their trucks where stopped. An Israeli plot clearly. Edited October 3, 2015 by Rozalia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace and War Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 1. How could you claim to be Christian and not adhere to the fundamental principles of your own religion? 2. How could you believe in the bible and at the same time not believe it to be literally true? Explain. Whoa wait a minute. How could you believe in the bible and at the same time not believe it to be literally true? Well for starters I think we can all agree that was is true must be proven to be true. To prove something is true, it must be proven time and time again to be true. It has to have consistent results, before it can be proven true. Now is it not true that the Bible was written before the Quran? And before the Bible the Torah? Is it not true other books where written even before the Torah? To this we all know is true. We know its true that dinosaurs inhabited the Earth millions of years before humans even thought of "God" we know its true because our world runs on it. Now, what came first? The chicken or the egg? We know eggs hatch chickens, so the egg came first. Now what came first? The God or the Idea of God? Well that could be up to interpretation.... Dinosaurs did not worship God. Dinosaurs did not write books in the name of him. They never even thought of him. So why would he have them? Why would God allow them to live? Humans share DNA with primates, this is true. There are fossils of humans before us, and before they had a brain like ours, and they did not worship God, this is true. So tell me how, after years of hunter gathering, after years that it took to tame the land, to harvest the resources, to build our towns and to invent paper. That all of a sudden, we started writing books that we where to live by? That these books and texts where the absolute truth and to not live by them was to be punished for eternity? Could you tell me that answer? Because it sounds to me that whomever wrote this book would hold an awful lot of power if he could convince people it was truth. But again, the truth is what can be proven, time and time again. What is true about the Bible the Quran and the Torah? Well, we know some of the places are true. We know that some of the people are true. But how do we know that the God is true? It never existed before these people wrote it up, imagined it and created it. This God could never be touched,or heard, or seen, or smelled. There's no proof that the Red Sea was parted or that Moses actually spoke with a burning bush. So what can we conclude from that, what is true about these three religions? We know places and people are true, we know that people wrote these books, we even know when they wrote it. But are their facts true? Is the content true? Did God really do all those things? Did he really just swoop down from nowhere and start talking to these people? Well what do we know about truth? It must be proven, over and over again. Can we prove that God spoke to these people? No because we can't ask God himself. Can we prove that God helped move humanity along? No because we have not seen him do it. If everything about religion is to be believed that it is literally true, then it must be literally proven if it is to be true. Now back to a question, what came first? The God or the Idea of God? Well we can't prove that God was around before God was even a word. We can't prove God was around before the invention of agriculture. And we can't even prove that God is around to this day. So what came first? The idea of God. Because it can be proven that God does not exist until the idea of God makes people believe he does exist. People can not worship him until a book tells them how. Therefore the idea of God has to exist before people actually believe God does in fact exist. Also meaning, that no religion can literally be the truth, because the truth of God is that he was invented before he could exist. And he only exsists in a book that was written by man. And those books are the only proof of his existence and that can be proven time and time again. This is true. 1 "Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ap Ioan Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Remember that Ibrahim is a fundamentalist so anyone who isn't is a heretic. It is inconceivable for him for there to be acceptance of other branches, that good old intolerance he says his religion is against. Personally I would say the criterion is whether they adhere to the Nicene Creed or not. I don't have any problem with those who don't, in fact I wish them well because we all get to meet God in the end. I don't advocate their murder and I don't think that any real Christian would or could. That is what I was trying to address with the above post, in particular the last sentence. Edited October 3, 2015 by Rob Ap Ioan Still a man hears what he wants to hearAnd disregards the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Now what came first? The God or the Idea of God? Neither. God did not come into existence, but always existed. See the Kalam Cosmological argument. Dinosaurs did not worship God. Dinosaurs did not write books in the name of him. They never even thought of him. So why would he have them? Why would God allow them to live? Humans share DNA with primates, this is true. There are fossils of humans before us, and before they had a brain like ours, and they did not worship God, this is true. All things worship God, including all inanimate objects, as well as every living thing, with the exception of mankind who have the option to not live according to the purpose of their creation. "Do you not see that to Allah prostrates whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth and the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, the moving creatures and many of the people? But upon many the punishment has been justified. And he whom Allah humiliates - for him there is no bestower of honor. Indeed, Allah does what He wills." (Quran 22:18) There's no proof that the Red Sea was parted or that Moses actually spoke with a burning bush. Pharaoh's corpse.... Interesting thing is that he wasn't even mummified nor were all his organs removed. Edited October 4, 2015 by Ibrahim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speaker Faris Wheeler Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Neither. God did not come into existence, but always existed. See the Kalam Cosmological argument. All things worship God, including all inanimate objects, as well as every living thing, with the exception of mankind who have the option to not live according to the purpose of their creation. "Do you not see that to Allah prostrates whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth and the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, the moving creatures and many of the people? But upon many the punishment has been justified. And he whom Allah humiliates - for him there is no bestower of honor. Indeed, Allah does what He wills." (Quran 22:18) Pharaoh's corpse.... Interesting thing is that he wasn't even mummified nor were all his organs removed. Huh, this time I agree with Ibrahim, maybe he should make more smarter posts in the future. 2 Peace will never be accomplished without war, but war cannot happen without peace.... or something like that idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace and War Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Well of course you fellows aren't going to leave your religious views, and that's fine you have every right to do so. But your not gonna see the logic, and you can't qoute the Bible or the Quran and say "Well here's your proof" books are written by men, not God. "Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Wellington Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Well of course you fellows aren't going to leave your religious views, and that's fine you have every right to do so. But your not gonna see the logic, and you can't qoute the Bible or the Quran and say "Well here's your proof" books are written by men, not God. I agree, the god-argument can't be stomped by any logic. 'This is my believe' will always be the answer to any argument. The seems to be no problem with that religion halts rational thought and actually works against progress on some issues. There is absolutly no difference between a god and santa claus. All religious people are atheist towards most gods anyways.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadir Aminu Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 No one said they were written by God. Also, spelling and grammar are important. If you're going to try and push a point, at least look over your work to make sure it's spelled correctly. Scrub. You understand the pain I go through everyday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speaker Faris Wheeler Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Well of course you fellows aren't going to leave your religious views, and that's fine you have every right to do so. But your not gonna see the logic, and you can't qoute the Bible or the Quran and say "Well here's your proof" books are written by men, not God. And you believe we came from nowhere. wow. I know there is a "Higher being". Whether it is God, Allah, Buddha, Chaos, or Odin, nobody will know until they die. So no Religion is right, however Islam is the most radical-killing in the world. 1 Peace will never be accomplished without war, but war cannot happen without peace.... or something like that idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I know there is a "Higher being". Whether it is God, Allah, Buddha, Chaos, or Odin, nobody will know until they die. So no Religion is right. Look who has been exposed as not being a Christian. Let me remind you of what you said to me a few pages back.... Who is more likely to understand Christianity better? An actual Christian like me? Or a Radical Islamist Pagan idiot? Allow the hypocrisy people, even "Rob Ap Ioan" is at it, take a look at the post he agrees with... I agree, the god-argument can't be stomped by any logic. 'This is my believe' will always be the answer to any argument. The seems to be no problem with that religion halts rational thought and actually works against progress on some issues. There is absolutly no difference between a god and santa claus. All religious people are atheist towards most gods anyways.. ^^^ ... Rob Ap Ioan are you an atheist? I agree, the god-argument can't be stomped by any logic. That's because it's logical. 'This is my believe' will always be the answer to any argument. Not true. Unless you're just giving your beliefs/opinions (like you are now), in which case you shouldn't be surprised if people simply respond with theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 Look who has been exposed as not being a Christian. Let me remind you of what you said to me a few pages back.... Allow the hypocrisy people, even "Rob Ap Ioan" is at it, take a look at the post he agrees with... ^^^ ... Rob Ap Ioan are you an atheist? That's because it's logical. Not true. Unless you're just giving your beliefs/opinions (like you are now), in which case you shouldn't be surprised if people simply respond with theirs. You're so close minded that even someone allowing others views instead of shooting them down with fundamentalism isn't a "true" whatever their religion is. People with your mindset is very much why religion is dying even if the recorded numbers are still high. Islam has a tighter grip then most with how subjugated their rulers keep people granted, but even it suffers from that at least in the west. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Wellington Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Not true. Unless you're just giving your beliefs/opinions (like you are now), in which case you shouldn't be surprised if people simply respond with theirs. The entire basis of any religion is a supernatural/above logic/knowledge argument (often called 'god'). This basis is by its very definition irrefutable. But in fact its hold the same value as a child who in an yes/no argument states 'always one more yes the your no forever'. Not each statement holds the same value just because you post a youtube or a picture of a farao along with qu'ran texts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) The entire basis of any religion is a supernatural/above logic/knowledge argument (often called 'god'). This basis is by its very definition irrefutable. But in fact its hold the same value as a child who in an yes/no argument states 'always one more yes the your no forever'. Not each statement holds the same value just because you post a youtube or a picture of a farao along with qu'ran texts. You must've completely missed my first response... See the Kalam Cosmological argument. Everything that begins to exist has a cause; The universe began to exist; Therefore, the universe has a cause. Following on from this argument ^ The universe has a cause; If the universe has a cause, then an uncaused, personal Creator of the universe exists, who sans the universe is beginningless, changeless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless and enormously powerful; Therefore, an uncaused, personal Creator of the universe exists, who sans the universe is beginningless, changeless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless and enormously powerful. If you want to attempt to disprove this argument, then by all means, go ahead. I'll be sure to respond Edited October 4, 2015 by Ibrahim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ap Ioan Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I liked that post, not because I agreed with it, but because it was impersonal. It was well written and gives a good understanding of Vivke's views. Isn't Lysanderius a Mormon? Still a man hears what he wants to hearAnd disregards the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speaker Faris Wheeler Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I liked that post, not because I agreed with it, but because it was impersonal. It was well written and gives a good understanding of Vivke's views. Isn't Lysanderius a Mormon? no. that rumor started when i was in VE and i was taking a road trip through Utah. Peace will never be accomplished without war, but war cannot happen without peace.... or something like that idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speaker Faris Wheeler Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I thought you endorsed it though? no >.> i am a christian irl yes but not hardcore. i would rather have other things to do than think about why god gave me 10 fingers to type in this convo Peace will never be accomplished without war, but war cannot happen without peace.... or something like that idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Wellington Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 You must've completely missed my first response... Everything that begins to exist has a cause; The universe began to exist; Therefore, the universe has a cause. Following on from this argument ^ The universe has a cause; If the universe has a cause, then an uncaused, personal Creator of the universe exists, who sans the universe is beginningless, changeless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless and enormously powerful; Therefore, an uncaused, personal Creator of the universe exists, who sans the universe is beginningless, changeless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless and enormously powerful. If you want to attempt to disprove this argument, then by all means, go ahead. I'll be sure to respond I dont want to post youtube clips, links to websites I google and pictures with catchy lines, because you will just reply with the same. Lets just stick with: - you use a loved by-christians idea about logical proof on the existence of a god figure, yay for getting along with the infidels you fake muslim-extremist! ;-) - even IF (after a yes/no, look at my links/youtube/funny pictures/copy-paste texts line of posts) the Kalam argument would be true, it does not say anything about an interventionist god as in the monotheistic sense of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) no >.> i am a christian irl yes but not hardcore. I know there is a "Higher being". Whether it is God, Allah, Buddha, Chaos, or Odin, nobody will know until they die. So no Religion is right, I dont want to post youtube clips, links to websites I google and pictures with catchy lines, because you will just reply with the same. Lets just stick with: I'm studying philosophy (accounting and comparative religion) and there is nothing wrong with posting any of those. - you use a loved by-christians idea about logical proof on the existence of a god figure The Kalam Cosmological argument was actually fully articulated by Muslims. yay for getting along with the infidels you fake muslim-extremist! ;-) My views are not extreme within Islam, we don't use the word "Infidel" to refer to non-Muslims, and I get along fine with them for the most part. - even IF (after a yes/no, look at my links/youtube/funny pictures/copy-paste texts line of posts) the Kalam argument would be true, it does not say anything about an interventionist god as in the monotheistic sense of the word. Whether or not God intervenes in the world is not what's being argued. Just that there is a God. Edited October 4, 2015 by Ibrahim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speaker Faris Wheeler Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 im a Christian not hardcore, it most likely isn't the right way but it's what I believe in, so why am I bushpoccio 1 Peace will never be accomplished without war, but war cannot happen without peace.... or something like that idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) im a Christian not hardcore, it most likely isn't the right way but it's what I believe in, so why am I bushpoccio If we go by everything you said, you're more like an irreligious person, who is a "cultural" Christian. As opposed to one who is a "biblical" Christian. Edited October 4, 2015 by Ibrahim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speaker Faris Wheeler Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 If we go by everything you said, you're more like an irreligious person, who is a "cultural" Christian. As opposed to one who is a "biblical" Christian. Need to remind myself of this^ 3 Peace will never be accomplished without war, but war cannot happen without peace.... or something like that idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Resorts to name calling... lol. Edited October 4, 2015 by Ibrahim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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