SoS Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Killing is moral when you have created an arbitrary justification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisha Greyjoy Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Once, about 15 years ago, I had a sort of Buddhist mini-enlightenment, and I found some of my truth. I found that I am connected to all living beings. And so a murder, an unlawful, intentional killing of another human being, is subjectively immoral to me because killing anyone diminishes me in that I am connected to them. Were I the one doing the killing, I would then be responsible for the killing and all the untold ripples of it throughout time. I deny that humans can be objective about most things. Math maybe, that's about it. We're all observers, seeing from our perspective, so I won't pretend my reply truly addresses "objective morality". Quote Duke of House Greyjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covenant Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Nothing is inherently moral. Morality is relative based on each person's upbringing and life experiences. The only static morality that exists is the laws society chooses to follow through popular consensus. Those who do not agree with society and breaks these moralities are the criminals that are incarcerated and removed as to not be in conflict with popular ideology. What is immoral to you, or anybody for that matter, is almost surely moral to somebody else. If a person was to attack me I would put them down whether the law dictated it was moral for me to do so or not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Avalanche Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 What is immoral to you, or anybody for that matter, is almost surely moral to somebody else. Huh. Tell me again where I can find someone who will "morally" allow me to murder their entire living family? (Murder, by definition being the taking of innocent life without any justification whatsoever, nor a religious sacrifice, and not war/conflict.) There are Universal Moral Absolutes. You may disagree but outside of psychopathic/sociopathic rarities, we do have them. Quote Beer. Damn Good Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Brother Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Huh. Tell me again where I can find someone who will "morally" allow me to murder their entire living family? (Murder, by definition being the taking of innocent life without any justification whatsoever, nor a religious sacrifice, and not war/conflict.) There are Universal Moral Absolutes. You may disagree but outside of psychopathic/sociopathic rarities, we do have them. There are absolutely no universal moral absolutes. The existence of such moral absolutes necessitates the existence of a god and there is no reason to believe a god exists. I can easily think of cases where someone would allow you to murder their entire living family, disagreements in ideology, morality, religion and the adversity that ensues could very well provoke hostile action on either side of the family or just.. any other very heated disagreement between family members. You might not be so willing to see other people dead yourself, but there are plenty of people who are willing. Just think of all the female Chinese babies who ended up in the trash, all the people shot down in the street just because they wore the wrong color at the wrong place, people find a way to justify these actions in a moral sense. Sane people who commit evil actions always find ways to justify their actions through their idea of morality. Even Mengele and the dreaded Unit 731 could give you moral justifications for the atrocities they committed, just like the American government and people justify having incinerated thousands of more or less innocent people in an instant at the end of the second world war. Morality is so incredibly fluid and so very dependent on individual interpretation that there's just no way there's something like universal morality exists unless you somehow had a higher being out there that was somehow able to dictate what is universally right and wrong to the entire universe and the billions upon billions of stars and planets and lifeforms that exist out there. To enforce universal moral absolutes on anyone or anything is just as bad as enforcing organized religion or sharia law, it means that you inhibit people's actions due to a moral code which you believe to absolute, forcing people to live their lives in certain ways because of what you, personally, believe is right, which is not something I could ever agree with or something you could ever prove to be right. It is contrary to the values of liberty and freedom. Universal morality is a prison, it is oppression though the enforcement of certain moral rules. Subjective morality is freedom and independence, where you are free to make your own rules and enforce them for yourself and no one else. I never trust statements that claim that something is absolutely entirely universally true and applicable for everyone because certainty is a hallmark of human arrogance and ignorance, human beings have been wrong yet chose to think we were right so many times and to think that the same rules, the same ideas, the same perception of reality exists everywhere just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemal Ergenekon Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 There are Universal Moral Absolutes. Examples please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Huh. Tell me again where I can find someone who will "morally" allow me to murder their entire living family? (Murder, by definition being the taking of innocent life without any justification whatsoever, nor a religious sacrifice, and not war/conflict.) There are Universal Moral Absolutes. You may disagree but outside of psychopathic/sociopathic rarities, we do have them. The psychopathic rarity eliminates only emotions. Emotions are nothing more than an evolutionary tool to enable sociability in some species. How does that suggest a universal absolute? Especially, since you mention the case in which it is not a universal absolute. There's a number of reasons I would not voluntarily let someone kill my people. All of those reasons are practical and none have to do with morality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Avalanche Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Examples please Procreation and Survival. And sorry guys: Not Universal Moral Absolutism. Its Moral Universalism. Similar, but not attempting to prove the existence of a god. No matter what argument can be made however, instinct for survival, even for others, always becomes the factor. Quote Beer. Damn Good Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemal Ergenekon Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Procreation and Survival. And sorry guys: Not Universal Moral Absolutism. Its Moral Universalism. Similar, but not attempting to prove the existence of a god. No matter what argument can be made however, instinct for survival, even for others, always becomes the factor. For these to be universally "moral", someone must prove that they are. And who are these people and what is the proof, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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