PresidentRiley Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I would like to know how other people stand on this topic in a non hostile manner. Please be as polite as possible . I am a person who supports a limited experimentation that will not kill an animal or harm it. Quote It was not me who put those horrible pictures, or that horrible signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Depends on the animal, really. I'm not averse to messing around with the genes of fruit flies, but more intelligent animals should probably be excluded from any experimentation whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blusphie Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Depends on the animal, really. I'm not averse to messing around with the genes of fruit flies, but more intelligent animals should probably be excluded from any experimentation whatsoever. So intelligence is the grade in which we determine whether or not we should subject a creature to abject suffering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacharias Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I don't believe animal testing for cosmetic items should be allowed in anyway. However, if an animal (including insects) may hold the cure to some disease (viral, bacterial, fungal, cancer, etc.) inside of it's DNA/somewhere in its body, then in that case it should be allowed. Quote "To say that nothing is true is to realise that the foundations of society are fragile and that we must the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted is to understand that we are the architects of our actions and that we must live with our consequences, whether glorious or tragic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiratePaul Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I think it depends on the animal, as well. I am against cutting an animal in half for shits and giggles, but for actual science, it may prove worth it. Quote DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE! YOU ARE A PIRATE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRiley Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 So intelligence is the grade in which we determine whether or not we should subject a creature to abject suffering? That's terrible Quote It was not me who put those horrible pictures, or that horrible signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I think it depends on the animal, as well. I am against cutting an animal in half for !@#$s and giggles, but for actual science, it may prove worth it. Yes, we shouldn't go kill a dog that most likely doesn't have anything we need and haven't tested other animals, but why does PETA care about flies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 So intelligence is the grade in which we determine whether or not we should subject a creature to abject suffering? Creatures without a certain level of intelligence cannot suffer. Or are you suggesting that changing bacterial DNA is immoral? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRiley Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Why should a fly suffer? As small and insignificant as it is? Why? Quote It was not me who put those horrible pictures, or that horrible signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacharias Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 As Hereno just stated flies (including most insects (the one known exception being the fruit fly)), cannot feel pain, thus cannot suffer. For the scientific reason, which, thanks to the internet I recently found out, is because insects lack the "Nociceptor", which is a nerve cell that responds to potentially damaging stimuli by sending "signals" to the brain and spinal cord, which results in what we know as "pain". In English, the Fly lacks the nerve cell to feel pain, and therefore cannot suffer. Quote "To say that nothing is true is to realise that the foundations of society are fragile and that we must the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted is to understand that we are the architects of our actions and that we must live with our consequences, whether glorious or tragic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRiley Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 But how come it has to die? Why can't it live it's insignificant life like everyone else is granted. Quote It was not me who put those horrible pictures, or that horrible signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blusphie Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Creatures without a certain level of intelligence cannot suffer. Or are you suggesting that changing bacterial DNA is immoral? Do you believe that it is right to harm an animal that has the capacity to feel suffering for our own means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabriel Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I believe that animal testing is a necessary thing for the continuing advancement of our medical knowledge. In truth, I'd rather an animal suffer because of a mistake, than a person. That said, I believe that such testing needs to be monitored and undertaken under a strict set of rules so as to minimize the chance of animal suffering during the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Do you believe that it is right to harm an animal that has the capacity to feel suffering for our own means? Depends on the situation. If I was given an ultimatum to punch a cow or die, I'd punch the cow. The other end of the spectrum is, of course, people who would shoot the cow just because they think it'd be funny, or to let off some steam. Most people fall somewhere along the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloko Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 We're realistically coming to a point where we'll be able to use synthetic or lab-grown human tissue to use for biological testing anyways. Hopefully that'll soon eliminate the need to test on animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blusphie Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Depends on the situation. If I was given an ultimatum to punch a cow or die, I'd punch the cow. The other end of the spectrum is, of course, people who would shoot the cow just because they think it'd be funny, or to let off some steam. Most people fall somewhere along the middle. So you would consider yourself in the middle of that spectrum? As in, not causing harm to animals unless necessary for your survival or the survival of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiratePaul Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Well I live in the south. We either hunt for meat or raise the animal ourselves, if I had no reason to harm an animal, I wouldn't do it. I know that all people do not think this way, and the world would be much different if they did. Quote DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE! YOU ARE A PIRATE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacharias Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 But how come it has to die? Why can't it live it's insignificant life like everyone else is granted. There's billions upon billions of flies in the world. The death of one is not going to jeopardize the entire species. Same with humans, really. 1 Quote "To say that nothing is true is to realise that the foundations of society are fragile and that we must the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted is to understand that we are the architects of our actions and that we must live with our consequences, whether glorious or tragic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiratePaul Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I honestly have no problem with testing on humans as long as that person volunteers. Quote DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE! YOU ARE A PIRATE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacharias Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I agree. I'm not a biologist/anatomy expert, but I'd think human testing would be a lot more accurate than testing on rabbits and pigs. Quote "To say that nothing is true is to realise that the foundations of society are fragile and that we must the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted is to understand that we are the architects of our actions and that we must live with our consequences, whether glorious or tragic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiratePaul Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I agree. I'm not a biologist/anatomy expert, but I'd think human testing would be a lot more accurate than testing on rabbits and pigs. Pigs are supposed to be really similar anatomically to humans. But nothing is more accurate than testing on the real thing. Quote DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE! YOU ARE A PIRATE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obongo the Paultifex Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I'm fine with animal testing. I mean, try not to be cruel about it I guess but it's just an animal. Unless the animal in testing displays some sort of higher thinking or intelligence I don't see a huge problem with it. Call me a monster but whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiratePaul Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I'm fine with animal testing. I mean, try not to be cruel about it I guess but it's just an animal. Unless the animal in testing displays some sort of higher thinking or intelligence I don't see a huge problem with it. Call me a monster but whatever. Monster, I agree with you. I guess we can sum all of this up as: "If it is intelligent, don't do it. If there is no reason, don't do it" Is that how everyone feels? Quote DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE! YOU ARE A PIRATE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRiley Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 A scientist figures out how to cure cancer... On a pig... Tries on a human. Failure complete failure. Quote It was not me who put those horrible pictures, or that horrible signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabriel Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Monster, I agree with you. I guess we can sum all of this up as: "If it is intelligent, don't do it. If there is no reason, don't do it" Is that how everyone feels? Basically, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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