[A $yndicate question to Swamp]

16 minutes ago, Leopold von Habsburg said:

I saw you praising Kayser, and if you knew what that turncoat ended up doing at his stint as FA for T$ you would understand why I think anyone sitting here and praising Kayser for stuff he did 2 years after the fact is completely out of their mind! Hit me up on discord sometime and I'll fill you in because you missed a lot in that respect.

So your last argument gets wrecked, and this is your new one? All I said here was that he his extremely competent at FA, and described how he was fricked over by TKR and described the awesome power of the TKR echo chamber. TKR's membership really will eat up anything their gov tells them, even something as blatantly scumbag as that. The same narrative just circles round and round and round heh

Now, in the other thread, where I pointed out Batavia's lie, I did mention my high opinion of Kayser. I do respect the man. You however, constantly warp things and bullshit to suit your narrative, and I think the amount of salt I would have to shove in my face when I listened to your accounting of what happened after would ruin it's taste LOL. I'd be insane to take anything you say at face value

 

1 hour ago, Broke said:

Jeez dude.... whats with all the salt y'all throwing around.

It's all just FA heh

[A $yndicate question to Swamp]

20 hours ago, Etatsorp said:

Granted I don't pay much attention these days, however this appears to reference the last major war TKR was in i.e. GW14 (or whatever you want to call it)  You think TKR's behaviour was awful???  I think it is you being obtuse my friend haha.

It was the Knightfall peace talks. It was the largest series of fa blunders Ive ever seen, adri straight up wouldn't even show up to talks she scheduled in it LOL.
 

19 hours ago, Leopold von Habsburg said:

He's talking about something that happened nearly 2 years ago now. Because this man who is rambling and ranting on the forums has not even played this game for almost that long.

TKR has always been a strong contender in these forum special Olympics,  it's sad to see some people in T$ trying to get a spot on the podium as well LOL

My points in this thread have been succinct, and when I gave a recounting of the events of Kayser's firing, it was not in a aimless or wild fashion. I moved from one peice of information to the next, in chronological order My words clearly do not meet the definition of a rant or rambling. If these concepts confuse you, you may just be derpy.

If you have graduated any level of schooling, I think it's clear you have received a fraudulent education.
 

Definition of ramble

 (Entry 1 of 2)

intransitive verb

1a : to move aimlessly from place to place rambled through the little town

b : to explore idly After one rambles through the maps for a time … some overall impressions begin to emerge.— John Noble Wilford

2a : to talk or write in an aimless, erratic, and often long-winded fashion The hunk starts to ramble on and on, and the women seem quite annoyed. — Monk Magazine

b : to be related or written in a long-winded or wandering fashion a story that rambles
 

verb

verb: rant; 3rd person present: rants; past tense: ranted; past participle: ranted; gerund or present participle: ranting

1. speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way.

   "she was still ranting on about the unfairness of it all"

 

 

[A $yndicate question to Swamp]

44 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Yeah, let's blame TKR for IQ trying to roll them out of the game.

You're not even close to making sense anymore, nor is it particularly tasteful. I advise you to let swamp speak for itself.

You ignored my point on how it  would be foolish of Swamp to continue to discuss this topic with you, when you have been arguing in such bad faith this entire time.

Do you not dispute that?

Now onto your point: With how TKR handled itself in the peace talks, and the surrounding discussions, it was clear that their awful behavior was setting up the grounds for another unified war against them. You surely must be playing obtuse here if you claim you didn't see that.

37 minutes ago, Benfro said:

Is that why you chose TKR to join when you returned to the game? And worked hard in low gov and were contributing to our community? Before you became delusional and left to save an already failed alliance?

 

Fist, we were once friends. You literally brought me into this game. Do yourself a favor and either come back, engage in the community, and share insights or stay in VM forever. There’s no place for you to chime in after years of having your head in the sand while sitting in VM and having no idea the context of your words. 

Hello Ben, what you said has nothing to do with my earlier post whatso ever, but I am in a sentimental mood, so I'll chat with you here for a bit.

I really did, and still do like TKR as an alliance. I think I said it in TKR gov chat once, and I was earnest, when I said TKR was the type of alliance that I always wanted Pantheon to be. I didn't realize the echo chamber and how crazy people there could be until that fricked up shit happened to Kaiser.

I dont think many on the outside understand, so i'll go into it briefly. Kaiser was their head of FA at the time, and he was committed to a multi sphere world. He had the idea to bring NPO into the fold and away from IQ, which TCL, the leader at the time approved. Kaiser, being extremely competent at FA, actually managed to do this. He actually managed to get NPO to agree to break up IQ, in a time where a multi sphere world like the one we have today was a fantasy. It one one of the most impressive FA moves in this games history. When it was all agreed upon, and TKR was to sign the lead up treaty to the deal, IC found out about this, and did everything in his power to torpedo this. IC is a force of nature, and it didn't take him long to do so ha. From my point of view at the time, I liked what IC did, I also really didn't like the NPO from what they did in CN. I think I even told IC I didnt approve of the NPO idea when he was making his huge play. The fricked up part came right after, when, they made a huge post to the membership, that made it seem like Kaiser went rogue and that they had to remove him over it. It was BEYOND fricked up. It was the only move to do when they dick a high gov member that hard though, Kaiser would of wrecked their narrative in house if given the chance. I didnt like Kaiser at that point in time, but I'm not dumb AF, and I think I was the only person who could see the blatant BS that had just happened. People ate it up. That was my first encounter with the TKR echo chamber, and I didnt grasp its significance until much later

I dont like that aspect of TKR, and while it has massive IA benefits, I think it has unintended terminal FA consequences.

I got Pantheon to a peak of #2, with over 70 people on deck to bltz for the war(I think we had well over 150 members), and excellent milcom organization. We had a fantastic WC, you are out of your mind if you think of it as a failed alliance.

I truly hope I never play this game again, while Alex has done an excellent job with the game itself, the community ruins it IMO.

[A $yndicate question to Swamp]

7 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

Bait

I think it would be foolish of Swamp to continue to discuss this topic with you, when you have been arguing in such bad faith this entire time. If you want to understand their reasons for the war, they have gone into them in great detail already. I dont see how them giving you more opportunity to twist things would be appropriate or in their interests.

I sometimes wonder if it was TKR's Echo chamber that truly ended up making half the game or so feel like they needed to roll them out the game, because convo was meaningless. If that indeed was the root cause, I would suggest they learn from the past, not repeat it.

[We are here for the whales - t$ DoW]

On 11/3/2020 at 6:43 AM, Sir Scarfalot said:

That is technically true. However, it is not at all an accurate or fair statement to make.

Truth alone will indeed not get many people on your side, but truth and honesty is still a lot of what it takes, and is absolutely an indispensable part of it. Honesty alone won't get people on your side... but dishonesty is guaranteed to set your allies against you and drop whatever reputation you have or might try to cultivate straight into the toilet.

While that makes sense, I can go on for quite some time giving examples of how people lied or where misleading about things, and it worked out well ha. It just doesn't align with reality in PnW, if you do learn this lesson in time, I hope it wont be as painful to you  as it was for me

On 11/3/2020 at 7:39 AM, Cooper_ said:

That said, I'm a bit skeptical about your claims with regards to Pantheon's decision-making.  I'd contest it based on your actions that war with regards to our protectorate, Nova Riata.  Am I happy that you didn't decide to take advantage of TFP?  Sure, but I don't think you deserve brownie points for the doing the right thing, especially with the context of you clearly doing the wrong thing with Nova in that same war.  Consistency in principle is the only way any set of morals can be exercised in this game.

There is a bit more to that then Adri has told you it seems

When we hit Nova and that other prot, my intent was to do something similar to what we did when we tested our new milcom system on Typhon, which was to have it be one round, and give them some reps to pay for their damage, and lobby to get them peace.

TKR also had a long history of using prots in wars, and our coalition wanted to be sure we defeated the undefeated TKR.

That didnt stay my plan long though, when we hit, Pooball and those guys mocked some of our members who did peace out out of pity, and said a ton of douchy shit, and when It came time to deal with him, it became apparent that Pooball was a massive piece of shit(Pun intended, heh), and I decided I wouldn't spend any political capitol trying to get them peace, and refereed him to the coalition et large to try and negotiate. Pooball, being the piece of shit he was, didnt manage to sway anyone that I can recall

One thing I found interesting at the time was how TKR didnt do much(Or anything. I cant remember any attempts..but it was a long time ago), when it came to talking with me about peace for their prot. While TKR likes to cite the injustice of it at the 1st glance(And I dont think its wrong to say it was injustice overall, I would just disagree), they did little if anything to try and help, I think pooball just told me that they just told him to talk to me one on one. I can guarantee you that if Adri would of apologized for how they supported TCW when Jeric stole our bank and fled there, after colluding with their leader about it, I would of spent the capital trying to get them peace with the coalition. I didn't quite understand how warped her mind is though, and how insane she is when it suits her. Her behavior in the coalition* peace talks was nothing short of abominable. Even if they didn't apologize, a strong argument likely would of worked. There is a bit more then this that happened though, it was a crazy time, but these are the significant points that paint an accurate picture of the world from my point of view at the time on that subject.

When it comes to me, I dont have a problem rolling scumbags, whether they be previously undefeated alliances that support bank thefts and have leaders that outright lie with no remorse, or pooball's micro when he was so awful to my members.

17 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

Adrienne bitter? Never

 

Dogpile 2.0

Yeah, frick you too @The God Emperor of Mankind, I find your words both unreliable and unsupported. Those logs do enforce what Batavia said, which is what you contested.

Besides the point, what are you doing here? You're in VM in Pantheon who is honestly irrelevant at this point and, thus, you by extension. So bye now.

This level of derp reminds me all to much of Pooball, TKR really does have a type when it comes to their allies it seems heh

Keep living in your fantasy land if you believe Batavias BS LOL. As I said, the truth is that at the start of the war when those SS's where from, it was the NPO in the coalition sheidling TFP from our coalition(Which Batavia had no role in LOL), and when, later on when we could of rolled them when BK tried to find support for dec-ing on them, he had no meaningful roll in that(And given how he posted the wrong SS's when I mentioned it, he may of had no idea that it had happened. I cant recall if I mentioned it to him or not).

It only delayed them from being hit though, when BK managed to get enough support int he coalition with our sphere against the idea.

It wasn't just me though, just putting it like I have puts me in too good of a light. Kaiser was also against it, he is a fantastic man in every sense. I never liked him much from my 1st play through, but once we started working together and I actually got to know him, he became one of the few people in this game I would consider a friend.

[We are here for the whales - t$ DoW]

8 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

Never change, Fist. Never change.

I think the last time we spoke on these forums, I called out your lies on something and you ran away. Does your bitterness stem from that? Or was it how my nation gave you your 1st ingame L? When I told you I enjoyed the dance, I was being polite, it's never fun when your partner just lays down and takes it.

[We are here for the whales - t$ DoW]

41 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Right. The "no u" is acknowledged. Moving on to actually relevant topics.

I dont think you know what a "No u" is, let me try and help:

"No u is the most effective and most common comeback in case of an insult. It is basically a reverse card from Uno; every negative comment someone made on you or your family, it can be turned back on him with these two simple, but nonetheless powerful words, defeating your opponent with his own words."

That is clearly not the case here, I was not returning an insult, but pointing out that if you dont understand what my intentions where for posting, that you need to do a better job reading what I said earlier, as it is there.

[We are here for the whales - t$ DoW]

2 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Fist. Why are you in this thread, trying to go on some personal tangent about batavia, my 2nd in command who has not really been the key decision maker in syndi nor the focal point of attention during these events? Batavia has been the dove in the dynamic.

Even if for a second your argument holds true (which frankly I dispute because its all over the place), it's entirely irrelevant to the subject at hand or this war. A dogpile of a war which was an inevitability due to the *stated intent* of certain parties to cut is down to size.

 

I'm a patient man, my love.

This is far more recent and relevant imo, and mayor makes a decent point.

The answer to your question is in my 1st post, please read it again more carefully.

[We are here for the whales - t$ DoW]

6 hours ago, Batavus said:

Out of context logs from the start of the war, that are not of what I spoke of, the time stamps prove this

Using logs that are not of what I spoke of to argue against my point, both stupid and scummy. Typical Batavia =/

The event I spoke of was when BK came to us trying to get support to hit TPF, when it was clear they didnt want to enter, this was some weeks into the war, once TKR was solidly defeated.

Those are from the start when the coalition assumed TPF will enter, they are not of what I spoke of LOL.  The timestamp proves this. The event I spoke of happened well into it, when BK came to us, towards the middle of the war, and tried to launch an attack on TFP. I had managed to stop that, though TFP was attacked sometime weeks later though, unilaterally from IQ, despite my efforts to stop it.

The coalition, and us, didn't preempt TPF because of a Polaris tie and NPO if I remember right, it was something of that nature, not the convo you showed ahaha

As I said, you are using logs that are not of what I spoke of to argue against my point. So it seems you are still the same dishonest derpy dude from back then =/

If you can convince people with what you said, they deserve to be convinced.

 

6 hours ago, Batavus said:

I I helped maintain your alliance for 8 months as your right hand man for FA

If that where true, how come you didnt know it was TFP's treaties that stopped TFP from getting pre empted by the coalition LOL

Please dont remind me how hard it was to get you to do the FA we needed our FA person to do, I would of saved time just doing it myself then talking with you and trying to get it done.... I''m sure you wont let reality get in the way of your fantasy though, Batavia never does

 

 

4 hours ago, Leopold von Habsburg said:

Fist is just old and senile now, a relic of the past. Please don't judge him too hard on this - we call them senior moments. I'm not sure how his handlers managed to let him escape the retirement home but I'm sure he is safely back at home watching re-runs of the Golden Girls or M*A*S*H and spoon feeding him his rice pudding.

Love you Fist! 💚

Either that, or I was there and remember how it happened LOL. Did Kaiser not keep you in the loop about this thing?

And MASH is a good show, frick you. I think its time for bingo, we'll settle this later young man buwahahah
 

10 hours ago, Tartarus said:

 

 

Kira de Kara

[We are here for the whales - t$ DoW]

16 hours ago, Lord Tyrion said:

As they say, the truth will set you free.  I'm been completely honest in my responses here.  If I'm out of the loop with my sphere then show me the logs and I'll eat humble pie (and ream whoever was going behind our backs).

I dont think I ever had the pleasure of chatting with you when I played, but you really do remind me a lot of myself the 2nd time I had the misfortune of running an alliance in this game =/

Truth wont get many people on your side in this game, it cost me a lot of lost opportunity learning that lesson as well.

I completely forgot my forum name on here, and had to search for a post that I had made, and this was the one I found, and it seems you have found yourself in a similar position that I once did =/. I didnt do very well, even with screenshots leaked to me that proved my point...and I didn't have the misfortune to have my opposition be Partisan either. He's probably the smartest person in game atm, and you seem inexperienced at this type of thing, even if you state truths he will frame things in ways that will have your honest answers weaken your position and maybe even splinter your side. The best you can do is just state your reasons and stay off the OWF, some fights you cant win, and trying to do will make things worse =/.

It also cant hurt to talk with your coalition mates before you make an official stance

You seem like a genuinely decent person, something I rarely get to say about PnW leaders, and for what its worth, I hope you do well. GL

13 hours ago, Batavus said:

Hi @Harry Flashman, @Lord Tyrion, @Richard Payne III,
worked on my coalition not rolling TFP (Knightfall),
😉

 

Now this is the hot steaming pile of bullshit that got me to spend 30 minutes figuring out my user name so I could get my password and make a post.

You had no meaningful role in that.

For those who care about things long past: It was a decision that was hashed out between Kaiser and myself, when I came to him for advice when BK came to me with the idea. Pantheon had 70 people on deck for a blitz at anytime, and a good war showing was what we needed for FA, and that was the only chance we could get it this war, but it was just too evil of a move for me to stomach though, and I ended up passing up a good FA opportunity over it. I'm not sure if ive ever been strong at FA, but that isnt one of the moves I regret making


Now, Tyrion needs to learn to be a better judge of character if he was earnest in his assessment of you. Ive seen you lie about shit more times then I can count, Ive seen you flip out and go full retard over minor shit, ive seen the the shitty internal politics you play for power, and that drove away an actually competent gov member. By all common moral standards, you are a piece of shit. I cant even say you make that up by being good at FA either, when you are put under pressure, you crack hard, and when you have the feeling of power, you cant think clearly and do stupid and cruel things. You RP NPD here well


It's a bit ironic of me to lecture Tyion on truth not being of much value, and then just go hard on the truth when I know it's presented in such a manner that will change no minds LOL. There is value to me just having some things be said, I think I can add that to my list of flaws that kept me from being good at this sort of FA heh

[A farewell, a new charter, and our new government lineup!]

1 minute ago, Leopold von Habsburg said:

Fist it was a pleasure to work with you. You were one of the first of our allies I met and talked with in depth when I was promoted to government. I feel like we had some really good conversations and I will definitely miss that but I wish you the best in your off-time, enjoy it buddy!

Looking forward to working with the new administration of Pantheon

 

7 minutes ago, Hilmes said:

Thanks for your time Fist, enjoy retirement. Looking forward to working with ya Ethos. 

I will, thank you guys

[A farewell, a new charter, and our new government lineup!]

8 minutes ago, CuppyCakeYums said:

Glad you are gone, gl to the new leaders. Don't do the same thing your previous did and leave when it gets tough.

This is a Pantheon announcement, not a TCW one

EDIT: I think Cuppy didn't get the joke about how it was Felky who left in Knightfall, not me, and the Irony of his post XD

[A farewell, a new charter, and our new government lineup!]

I really didn't want to get into PnW seriously when i made this nation, but it seems casualty had other plans for me XD. Now that Pantheon is stable and in a good place, it is time for me to bow out of the game(Again). It really has been a memorable journey, with great friends made along the way and proper villains. I would like to thank our membership who stuck through the rough patch, the drastically higher taxes and uncertainty we went through while we got things back in order. Few alliances would of survived what they threw at us, your dedication and trust really did keep me motivated while I was putting those long hours into PnW. I would like to thank our excellent gov who has stepped up and done a truly awesome job running pantheon. I really wish you guys were around when I last lead Pantheon XD. I’m proud of you all :). I would like to thank Partisan, Hilmes, Leopold, and The Syndicate for being such stalwart friends in a game where such things are rare. In so many ways you guys are in league of your own and it’s been a privilege to work with you.

 

 

And now with that out of the way, I am proud to announce the new gov lineup of Pantheon!

 

Titan: Ethos

Champion of the Gods: rawr
 

Olympian of Economics: rawr

Olympian of Internal Affairs: Melyaj Vijsopj

Olympian of War: Matthew the Great

 

Head of the CSF: Cthulu

Deity of war: Tcase

Deity of Internal affairs: Sunara

Deity of Foreign affairs: JordyHams

Deity of Foreign affairs: Tarroc

 

Wizard of much repute: Ridcully

Link to new charter: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m5kYS9BNbHhBKdlUleoWfW9v2XyxVJc_ZuCOmTrqLaU/edit#

Goodbye PnW o7

[A Bold New Frontier]

GL guys!

[The couping of Sirius]

Trying to reason with TKR and co reminded me of this video
 

Halp me

[F.U.N. (TCW Parody) - JKell]

"I don't understand this, its like im speaking the truth" Hahaha

[The couping of Sirius]

18 hours ago, pooball said:

You mean it didnt seem right for me to try to talk to you to see if we could peace?

Or the fact your bank gov come to our discord saying he was there to apply? (it was him (Tcase) who was called a c*nt and not by any member of Nova)

Or maybe the fact you lied to your own members saying I called them a C*nt? (DrLorenzoVonMatterhorn)

Or your other members who declared on us saying to talk to you for peace as their war reason?

Its sad that you have had 3 months to show everyone who bad Nova is by sending screenshots... You could have at least made fake chat logs by now....

 

All while your prot was begging for peace got onto their 3rd leader and cried when they had a few wars declared on them. I told them that if they wanted peace they needed to talk to you as I was not willing to allow them to leave the war and still get our slots full.

This whole war on prots is stupid and didnt need to last this long, Nova was 3 weeks old when the war started yet you still thought it was needed to keep the war going. You was told you could peace us as Godfury explained to me. Anyway doesnt matter anymore im happy with the fact 2 bad micros disbanded and Richard of Godfury left the game all coz they could not peace with a micro.

 

NOT ALL MICROS ARE BAD BUT I AGREE MOST NEED TO DISBAND (more to come from us in the coming months)

I was there, I remember shlappa said it to me XD This type of behavior is what got you into the mess you where in in the first place (He specifically said Fist is a !@#$ if I recall hahaha)

Looking through my logs, everywhere I see myself mentioning the !@#$ thing I said it happened on your server or shlappa said it, and that it was inline with the stuff you where saying* about us.

You where shit talking Matthew for peacing with one of your guys because he sounded so new XD

I think you are in the right sphere hahaha

[The Future of PnW]

15 hours ago, Wilhelm the Demented said:

I'd argue long periods of peace have a lot less to do with war chests and much more to do with politcal maneuvering.  

It's actually relatively easy to build a war chest if you know what you're doing. And while it certainly takes a bit of time, it just can't be the main factor by itself. 

Two points: 

1.) I think it's fair to say most alliance leaders actively avoid wars, particularly ones that don't have easy odds. There are certainly more antagonistic sorts, and plenty of movers and shakers who are admirable. BUT if you polled every gov member in this game i bet you find most would agree to two key tenets "It is my job to look after my members' best interests" and "long term economic gains tend to do more for an alliance than a successful war" (especially so in about 2/3 of every triumvirate). 

2.) Building a successful coalition of alliances is difficult even when you have everything going for you - and most successful coalitions begin disagreeing almost immediately after they've all agreed to declare war. Establishing all the necessary contacts and trust is definitely the most time consuming aspect of a prolonged peace and after war is declared getting everyone to agree on terms is certainly the most time consuming aspect of war. This is why I prefer IA.

 

Combine both of those points and you end up in a situation where there is no particular incentive to antagonize the game any more than one has to, so they can build political relations and prepare their alliance for war AND no incentive for the victorious coalition to peace out promptly as an adversary that is pinned down is preferrable to one that's free to maneuver both financially and politically, for the most part. Especially if that enemy is voluntarily re-throwing themselves on the sword which is basically what happens every time somewhere after round three or four when all the good whaling opportunities have dried up. 

 

Realistically, if you want a more fluid and fast paced game - you'd need to reduce the potential costs of taking (and failing) risks + a much larger and diverse range of alliances and players + more balanced and competitive mechanics (particularly ones that are actively re-worked to keep things on an even tier). This game offers none of those things. 

If you want to succeed at a persistent nation sim, the first step is creating a nation and the second step is simply persisting long enough for every other player in the game to get bored and delete. 

 

Frankly,  I'm surprised this game has remained as interesting as it currently is,  and a lot of that credit goes to competent alliance leaders who are actively stirring the pot. The problem is this game is mechanically biased against stirring the pot, no matter how competent you think you are.

Well said Wilhem

I talked about it in another thread, I think the community has a major role in the state of the game and its future. I think we need more people and more major alliances. Ive seen it quit a few times in just this playthrough, quality people not wanting to lead alliances anymore(And sometimes not even wanting to be in the game at all) because of the community. Ive seen several talented morally straight people loose all interest in the game because of what they saw or because of what people said to them

People who have gone from loving the game 100% to ready to quit, even after investing lots of time in their alliances/nations. It happens so quick and I have tried everything I could do to help them, but the interest is just lost.

We've mostly the same alliances* for years, I think more people and more spheres is what we need ultimately(Unless sheepy really does figure out a way to fix the issues you stated), but with a literally insane and toxic OWF culture I don't think it can happen.

[The couping of Sirius]

9 hours ago, Lunaris said:

I see no proof here that you aided your protectorate with achieving peace or that you told them any specifics about how peace talks were going.  Furthermore, I assume that you decided to show these exact logs to further your narrative, which makes your actions similar to those on the other side of the argument.

I will make another post on this topic because you do have a point, the implication may not be clear to everyone.

The logs do clearly show Nizams point being a lie of why they came to TKR, it wasn't because we where not talking*(As she claimed) to them, but because they where there to ask about peace(And we where indeed talking to them). It also shows shows how that others guy's logic was bad in assuming what he did.

You are right though, those logs don't explicitly show me filling them in(Though her claim was that we where not talking to them, which they did prove was wrong, which was my intent), though it was implied. I trust this will be satisfactory: 



All TKR has to do is agree to give a public apology for this nonsense and some confidentiality agreements, and I'll let Benfro look at the entire embassy, they are real and not out of context if they care
 

[The couping of Sirius]

1 hour ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

Funny, that's how most people view you.

So if most people think something, it makes it a valid claim then? How does it feel to to lead the the Worst Military of The Year and also the Most Inactive Large Alliance of the year? I assume you don't agree with the popular vote then, you guys sure had them removed from your alliance page awfully quick. Hypocrisy.

This is what a lack of principal looks like, a double standard that favors oneself.(And given the awards you 'won', I would guess your thoughts are not inline with the majority of the games)

I of course don't agree with those awards(Though the pumpkin was funny), please do better Nizam, what I said was harsh but true. You where caught red handed beyond all doubt in a lie, and then you say something middleschoolish like this, fail to understand the obvious,  and then dodge.

Let's now get failure to understand the obvious:

1 hour ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

What do you think these show exactly? This is basically you guys shrugging them off and being like "figure it out yourselves". A deal could have been worked out long before that point but none of your coalition seemed at all interested in working towards finding any solution to letting protectorates out because you didn't want to give up slots, from what I was told.

They show... us keeping sirius in the loop with piece talks, and the reason why they contacted you. It proves your statement about them coming to you because we didn't tell them anything as a lie. We had a big dialogue with them for the entirety of the war actually

Do you actually read my posts?

Now to the dodge:

1 hour ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

When I tried to talk to your side about it, you jerked me around and wouldn't give a straight answer for nearly two weeks. Once you did, the answer was "we won't allow you to talk on their behalf, they have to ask us themselves" and then you jerked them around for about another week before finally saying no. Your side's protectorates, some of whom surrendered, disbanded, or were asking us weekly for peace towards the end of this conflict could have left months earlier if you weren't so vested in a handful of extra slots. Did you explain that to them?

1) The Dodge: This is not what I was calling you out on, this is just some semi relative stuff you think will make you look good? Where is this coming from?

2) Bonus Lie: This is also another lie. "When I tried to talk to your side about it, you jerked me around and wouldn't give a straight answer for nearly two weeks"

You never once talked to me about it, I just checked our history. Jesus christ

3) Failure to comprehend words: I did explain that I did not want to spend capital to peace out with NR after their behavior. People in our coalition did want to keep slots though, but the way you are talking about it with:

"you weren't so vested in a handful of extra slots. Did you explain that to them?"

Makes it seem like Pantheon was the one calling for the shots for our coalition, the largest coalition the game has ever seen I think... To get things moved in that thing, one has to do a vote, talk to people, ect ect. Pantheon was not the leading power int hat coalition, and with how NR acted, spending capital on them did not seem right

This is becoming a lot like our DMs where... =/


EDIT: I really did say what I said with the sole intent of helping you become more self aware, not get into something like... this... I suppose this convo has run it's course then, at least for me. I really do want to see this community be more sane, we're at the point where people are fine with a micro getting tricked and couped, this is really really bad

12 minutes ago, Epi said:

I haven't seen much tkr shit posting this war tbh, very hard for the losing party to be taken seriously whilst doing so. 

Most of their posts were complaints, which is normal...

Hmm, the sheep god demands salt! next war we must be better. 

I based that comment off of my time inside TKR, when I was last there BK and IQ was getting shit talked pretty much daily ha

[The couping of Sirius]

On 2/3/2019 at 1:56 PM, Lunaris said:

Prove to me that what you're doing is any different.

Sure XD There entire argument is a huge leap in logic, it's obvious to anyone who cares about such things. Our prot asking TKR about peace terms in no ways says we where not discussing it with them.

But now that they have dug so deep into this nonsense, I think it's time to end this XD

Here are the logs of me telling sirius in their embassy that they can talk to TKR and work out a separate peace if they want to:

Here are the logs of their last leader talking to us about how the talks went:

I mean... It's obvious that TKR's screenshots did not prove what they said they did, and here is the proof that they where absolutely wrong and spreading falsehoods. They are warping and spinning, exactly like I said they where.

It's a shame some of TKR's gov is like this, this is a terrible way for prominent members of this community to act(Atleast for those of us who don't like being lied to XD), and I think it is not only shameful but also just bad for the game. It hurts the politics side of the game when people are -that- warped where even the most basic of logic is beyond them.

On 2/2/2019 at 2:32 AM, Nizam Adrienne said:

Your protectorate is literally asking us for information on peace talks because they weren't hearing anything from you.

As we can see from the 2 logs above, that was a lie. Fake screenshots are easy to make though, if you have any doubt as to the authenticity or context of these, I will even give Benfro access to the sirius embassy(With some conditions of keeping what is in there in there, we talked about a lot of stuff and had a constant dialogue throughout the war). I will just require an public apology for you lying about this stuff though. Why do you play the game like this?

On 2/3/2019 at 7:29 AM, Kevanovia said:

If anything, what you just said proves Adrienne’s point. Not only are you clearly ignorant of your prot’s actions, but you have yet to realize that the actions of your prots are a direct reflection of you. While you can attempt to put the blame on Robert Gero for your shortcomings of judgement & communication in this particular situation, blame/ridicule should still be directed to Pantheon and its leader.

Best wishes on improving Pantheon’s brand ?

 

You assume this is about "Improving Pantheon's brand", but that isn't quite right. People tend  to be tribal here when it comes to opinion XD The stuff they are saying is wrong, and I have been trying to tell people the truth. As I said in my earlier post, atm the OWF is dominated by people and leadership that cant tell the difference between reality and what suits their narrative. If you would take the time to read my posts, you would likely understand what im doing here better. As for how I know you are being warped, it's the MOST BASIC of logic that TKR's screenshot does not prove what they said. Because they came to TKR asking questions, that in no way suggests that. There are other reasons they could of came to TKR.. like trying to secure an individual peace...hahah. Validity matters, because without logic a person will often be incorrect...

The community has a problem, and then some elements of the community started being perfect examples of that XD Fortuitously they choose to use angles on things I know are incorrect ha

On 2/3/2019 at 3:44 PM, Kevanovia said:

My post was in reference to your reply of Adrienne. Based on the information that you provided, I was able to present my thoughts in the manner that I did. No agenda needed.

What narrative am I trying to push? That Pantheon is terrible? I don’t feel the need to push that narrative as you’re doing a stand-up job of pushing that narrative yourself.

And your thoughts where -terrible-, if you cant put an idea through even the most basic levels of scrutiny, your thoughts arnt worth much outside of your own head..


An aside: Ive been seeing how bad the OWF was for sometime, though outside of defending a few smaller alliances I really haven't made any posts and tried to take on this literal insanity head on ha. I do hope atleast some people reading this will take something away from it. I think the first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging exactly what is it is, and I was fortunate enough that some of the heavy shit talkers, lairs and BSers chimed in. Let's do better as a community, this stuff really does turn off great players.

To Nizam and Radoge, It's plain how you guys think. And people do have a strong tendency to view others using themselves as a reference. Because of this phenomena, I think it's worth saying that Im not here to here to carry out any agenda besides exposing some of the most insane elements of our community and correct falsehoods(This thread was about a EMC player who tricked and couped a prot, least we forget XD). I know TKR has a shit talk culture, and I understand the tribal effect that has on the mind, and I can see from your point of view how our thinking is the same(I know how reason pretty much goes right over your heads, but shit talk is something you guys understand). Defining shit talk as "Saying negative crap about something without any successful critical thought". If you would, I request that you try understand things from another point if view  

[The couping of Sirius]

5 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

If anything, what you just said proves Adrienne’s point. Not only are you clearly ignorant of your prot’s actions, but you have yet to realize that the actions of your prots are a direct reflection of you. While you can attempt to put the blame on Robert Gero for your shortcomings of judgement & communication in this particular situation, blame/ridicule should still be directed to Pantheon and its leader.

Best wishes on improving Pantheon’s brand ?

 

I told them they could take to TKR and nova and try to work something out if they wanted XD

You don't understand the full situation and are just assuming shit to fit you narrative, it's pathetic =/

[The couping of Sirius]

12 hours ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

Your protectorate is literally asking us for information on peace talks because they weren't hearing anything from you.

You are also proving my points, we had been in contact with sirius and answering their questions the entire war, they just didn't like our answers about how it will end in coalition peace and went to you guys(And some of what Robert said was false, we where clear it would be a long war, we didn't keep telling people it would be a week XD). So you see something that makes someone you don't like look bad, don't do anything to properly understand the situation and just run with it. That's bad form Nizam*, I would ask that you do your due diligence like most of us do before making such leaps in the future(Especially if you plan to do some on the OWF). It's sad to read stuff like this =/

 

12 hours ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

There's no spin required, the story writes itself. You can argue it all you want, Fist, but when TFP didn't enter at the start, you decided your entry would be to hit our protectorates, which is the most pathetic entry to a war I've probably ever seen. So, congratulations on hitting our micros while we were engaged, a worthwhile victory indeed.

Once again, you oversimply something to the point where it fit's your narrative and post on the OWF without putting the thought you should into your words. If one was to think about the situations, we did go in on your entire coalition shortly after(With the slots we can have anyway, but ofcourse you omitted that ha). The coalition requested we hit those prots, and I decided to go with it because my guys where hyped and with our culture it would bring instability to blueball everyone because TFP bailed on you guys. NR didnt do anything to deserve a large rolling, and shortly after we blitzed them I went into their discord and saw how terrible they where acting. I had gone in there with the intent to talk to them and then spend political capital attempting to get them an early peace. Some of our gov members gave them early peace, they mocked us and called us shit because of it, they where talking some pretty extreme shit, and upon conversing with pooball I found he was a dishonest and crappy dude, and decided not to spend the political capital on people who behaved so terribly(I also thought that was common knowledge, did you not know?). I was surprised someone like that would be a TKR prot, but you guys really have changed =/

You are oversimplifying, omitting key parts, and warping things to fit your narrative. Please put more thought into your posts and ideas in the future, and if you earnestly try to understand an adversary, it will give you some insight that will help you do well.
 

12 hours ago, Nizam Adrienne said:

which is miles ahead of where yours will ever be.

And there is the legendary TKR shit talk XD

A post where you jumped to incorrect conclusions, omitted key elements to warp things, and did not think out your words properly topped with shit talk ha.

Though in all fairness, I have seen a lot of bad out of pooball, but he and his alliance should be proud for weathering what they did, it's not an easy thing to do. If Pooball can handle himself with dignity in the future, I think he has a solid basis for a very successful alliance. 

[Ship Ship Plane Plane Nuke]

It was a fun war, thanks

[The couping of Sirius]

11 hours ago, CuppyCakeYums said:

It’s a bit amusing to see someone who trash talked someone they knew (who was going through an emergency at that point in time) in real life, simply so they could manipulate the other into giving them the reins of an alliance on a damn browser based game. Your own version of things is so damn warped. You didn’t bother with reaching out to anyone in charge then, you didn’t bother with finding out what was going on beyond the surface; when others did reach out to you, you dismissed it completely. 

You strut around here spewing garbage about morality, pretending you’ve done absolutely nothing wrong since you came back. It’s pathetic, honestly. Every single player of any repute in this game has done something or the other the public would say was “wrong”, stop pretending to be a saint. Own up to your faults. I don’t know what you’ve been through, because you never deemed it necessary to explain. What you did do on the other hand was slander people. (Heck, you went to Yui of all people’s DMs just to be a dick about things during the war).

You’re so concerned with “morality”, yet you acted like a complete douchebag with no regard for someone who took over YOUR shitfest after YOU slapped the delete button, coming back from the dead and shitting on everyone who tried to fix YOUR mess. Stop pretending, literally no one with a few brain cells to rub is buying it. 

You wasted 5 minutes of my day when I found that convo and re read it all. You TCW guys can sure keep the BS coming hahah. I did !@#$ at him hard, I was upset about how Pantheon was failing and I care a lot about this alliance. I did not threaten him or use that to "manipulate the other into giving them the reins of an alliance on a damn browser based game", and then you call me warped? You just made up shit and lied on the OWF(Not that this is new behavior for you or your gov)

#TCW logic

I strut spewing garbage? Im not the one lying and BSing here on the OWF, It almost looks like you just assume everyone is as shit as you are to make yourself feel better as you play the game in the manner you do. Think there could be any truth to that?

I acted like a douchebag? Going back to several years ago about the silent war? The me of back then couldn't handle backstabs, and I happened to eat a couple in a short period and I couldn't handle it and deleted, yeah. It's not flattering for me, but that's the truth. I suppose Yui didn't mention it to you that I asked who wanted lead and she said she did, she didn't ask for help or for me to stick around. You ignore how Pantheon had the worst gov of a major AA in the game while I was out, and still blame everything on me while not understanding what happened? Oh TCW

You also use a terrible definition of "wrong" and morality, it isnt as simple as someone saying something is "Wrong" to make it wrong, but I think the way you think about morality explains a lot about you. It's a childish and foolish way to think that falls apart under any scrutiny

I think you are trying to make me look bad but you are just supporting what I said about this community, as is prone to happen when someone is correct in a statement XD

7 hours ago, Radoje said:

@The God Emperor of Mankind

You can't be sirius.

You do realize that your protectorate's government quit the game after 5 members of our coalition countered them, and than when the next government came in charge they couldn't get peace and eventually gave up all together. You're arguing a fallacy because you can't keep track of your own protectorate. They declared war on Nova, shit their pants after a few counters and than gave up when they stopped believing in their protector.

I can't even fathom that you're trying to argue morality. You had an ally that saw you ditch one night when you lost your target sheets, than dragged your dying alliance and postponed dropping you for 6 months, had you in their government and took you in as a friend, and even sat next to you to help resolve your internal squabble with TCW, only to have you hit our protectorates when us and them were both pinned down. You killed your own protectorates through mismanagement, don't blame this on Dusty, and don't pull EMC into whatever joke you call your leadership.

Sirius first gov lasted quite a while, but Fabrezzy stepped down to IRL and I think because of the toxic community following his OWF post(Which was a shame, he was a good leader). The second government lasted a while as well, until Robert came in with a vote. Robert was dishonest and acted sketchy,we didn't trust him, and he did spoil relations between our alliances. He was removed when dusty couped them. At no point did sirius gov quit the game because you guys countered(That story is flattering to TKR though.. I notice a theme with the OWF types here). It was just a long war for an alliance that was new and lost their main leader, and ended up with a really bad one(Not that a bare gero any ill will, but it's the truth with how he conducted himself. I hope this is a teachable moment for him, everyone makes mistakes and there is no shame in that).

THIS is exactly the type of crap I was talking about in my post earlier. Once again your side makes up this 'hit piece'(And unless im missing something, you threw in a screenshot that doesn't support your claim about us being ignorant of our prot XD)

Moving on to your second paragraph, You are talking about what I did a few years ago when i deleted? I couldn't handle what happened, I was a fool and trusted too emotionally and deeply, and I wasn't strong enough to handle it. I did also oversleep when prepping that night, and the guilt was extreme. It's the truth and, I suppose I am a bit of an oddity here, but I don't mind admitting to unflattering truths, and I dont lie and try to do the crap you can cuppy are so fond of.

I did appreciate the help you gave me at the start, the details of what happened between TKR and myself are complicated and long though.

It's common knowledge we where ondeck to hit TFP, but because of the politics we got sidelined to a counter, they decided not to enter, and then we tested our blitz software on the prots and entered against you guys. You spin it as:  "abble with TCW, only to have you hit our protectorates when us and them were both pinned down". How many wars did we fight against TKR and TCW? And you just spin it all to fit your narrative of TKR stonk Pantheon mean hahah. Sirius couldn't handle the longest war in Orbises history, and lost their main leader to IRL and the community.

Once again, you are just proving what I said about the terrible aspects of this community. Nzaeem likes your post though atleast! TKR was one of my favorite alliances in this game, it really does bother me seeing you guys be like this =/ Your leadership used to have principal and be able to form rational arguments

4 hours ago, Leftbehind said:

Like it or not the game is called politics & war. Not arts & crafts. So being able to have various opinions and drama is good for the game overall. If you and others wise to take a moral position than we need players to take the immoral stance. It's already a boring game where nothing happens so grab your crew and I'll grab mine so we can have a good old politic drama fight in public. 

Let's make PnW great again. 

The issue is what I said it was, that the people who are vocal on the OWF(And some in alliance leadership) are so base that it negatively impacts the game. A lot of what you said was silly, but I'll just leave it there for now ha