The Sacred Lights

Ah yes, not addressing my points... Again. Alright, instead of indulging you this time, I'm just going to ask one question. Manage to answer that and I'll reply to the various accusations you've levied here. Here's my question: Do you think that what I am saying is fundamentally incorrect? Do you not agree, that tantrum throwing and refusing to post losses is detrimental to RP? Do you actually disagree with what I am saying, or just the way you're saying it?

Be bad at the craft all you want. All I've been complaining about in this thread is people throwing a tantrum, just because they can't stand the idea of losing. If you want to type single paragraph posts, that are utterly bland. Fine. But if you are one of the Problem Children I speak of, with the unstainable ego that can't accept losses. Then: Yeah, you should change that.

That moment that actual effort is equated with being mentally handicapped. Ah yes, the retards: masters of science, poetry, business, and literature. Only a broken mind could wish to master their craft! How silly of me.

I understand the point you're making. But I do have to point one thing our: Fanfic is not communal by nature. You can do it on your own without even needing an audience, let alone interacting with anyone. RPing is, by contrast, communal. Which means if someone is messing things up IC, it messes things up for everyone IC. It's like the difference between your room being messy, and you making a mess in the kitchen. Naturally, your roommates will be a bit irked with you.

No, it is not. Not at all. A is not B. A, in this context, is the Egotism that makes someone completely unwilling to post loses, or lose a character, or have a lack of control. B, is merely cocky abrasiveness. A cocky, and beligerent person can still admit they've lost. A cocky person, in fact, is more likely to lose. (Again, my main man Kan Ek is gonna die in another RP because he got cocky.) As much of a prick as I am, I can still post loses. I can still accept defeat. I can still let my massive pride take a blow, and bend over in acceptance of this fact. My brand of Ego type B, will not result in the Moderator's complaint box being filled up cause someone beat me fair and square. Nor will it result in me refusing to accept that the enemy who's outplayed me will beat me. Ego type A, on the other hand DOES result in the Mods being flooded (to the extent that one ragequit being a mod). It does result in people being unable to accept losses. It does cause people to throw a tantrum when they don't get their way IC. Essentially, I'm a Gym Brat complaining about Tantrum Throwing, and you're saying in response: "Well you throw things around too!".. Well yeah, but not because I'm salty and want to break everything in the room! I'm throwing stuff around to practice my log tossing, which I happen to take pride in.

Well it started off as me calling out someone for being hateful, and then replying to someone that the egotism will be/is an issue even with the consent rule in place. That's right, someone else actually brought up that people throw fits when they don't win first! All I did is point out that this behavior is but a symptom of a larger issue... I didn't start being a prick until you people decided that, of all the flavors available, you wanted to be salty.

I comprehended it fine, it was simply a non issue. OOC =/= IC. If it does, then you're doing something wrong.

Ah yes, I understand fully. I refuse to get involved with politics, personally. Never know how leading a political party will effect you, what if I become Literally Hitler?!? In all seriousness, not wanting to try to perfect your hobby, and fearing doing so will make you a completely different person is... Sad... Literally, a depressing thought. The idea that you feel your own self image is so vulnerable, that you will become an Angry Mayan Cosplayer like me if you improve yourself, is genuinely revolting. That is excessively weak willed. If you're not being serious, tho, then all you've done is... Literally nothing. Except make yourself look delusional. I can tolerate prickishness, but insanity is never a flattering color to wear.

Apologize, I didn't know we were still In Character and that we're RPing now! *Coughs, starts channeling his inner Mayan* "By the grace of the Sacred Lights, by staining my Kingly Name, I must offer you up as Sacrifice to Ah-Bolom-Tzacab! Ready your beachheads, or perhaps your front door. For I, Kan 'Ek, highest Ajaw of the Noh Chactun, shall do battle with you and your ilk! By the Gods, and the Ancestors, my will Shall be done!"

Our egotism doesn't descend into RP. Like I said, egotism outside of RP is fine. So long as you can compartmentalize it. Actually, people in the UMS don't think that. People in the UMS think that people higher up the tech tree shouldn't interfere with MT nations unprovoked. Not unleashing MOAB's on Ancient Greece is just good RP etiquette. Heck, most of us, myself included, even gimp ourselves when fighting less developed nations who actually provoked the fight. Dylan(Schwieger, he of the Pepsi avatar who plays the Pords), has even gone on record saying "Pordish strength accommodates to the other persons RP skill". And this is NOT idle talk. I've seen it first hand: Dylan will take losses that according to his Tech, he shouldn't, simply because he respected the craftsmanship of the other guys RP.

Your proposal is great. The only issue is that many in the community are just in it for keks, and lels. Many of the community here, especially the older members, aren't that interested in making things make sense. They just want to blow off steam... It'll be like trying to get some kids who just want to stick fight, to get into LARP. A few might be tempted, but many will just want to continue stick fighting.

If Alice did that, NatRP would die rather abruptly.

I know he/she's new and wasn't there. Heck most of the people posting in this thread are new faces... Hence why I'm explaining things to them. I don't have to reply to you telling you all of this, you were there. And as you've hinted to here, you already know your biases. Which brings me to an interesting point: If you perceived me as calling Luxa Biased, that is a misinterpretation on your part... Literally my only responses to them have been: 1) Being snarky at them for their overreaction to me bolding and underlining things for emphasis. *Gasp* The Horror! 2) Explaining that I was being snarky in my response. Telling them to get over the Bolding. 3) The above which... Hmm, yeah you're no psychic. I didn't call them biased there either. #RIP PS: Nobody listened to me when I wasn't being an Ass either. Hell, no one listened to any of the guys who weren't being an ass. Actually, no that's not true. Some did listen. And those people also listened to me, with one saying they were wrong about me... #RIP F

I started off my post insulting Featherine, for being an !@#$. This is true. But what did he/she do? Bold and underline something? Contribute to the conversation by pointing out the uncomfortable truths? No... They were literally telling someone who was apologizing to them, after doing nothing actually wrong, that they hated them. THAT is the person you're white knighting right now. Okay? I don't even like Cheonsa, Cultra Vult till the day I die, but that kind of response is obviously uncalled for. Prickish as I can be, I'm not going to hate someone and spit on their apology, just because they're bad at something. If anything, Cheonsa's sincerity would make me want to help them get good but I digress. Now that this is out of the way.. Yeah, there's Egotism on NS, but NS is so big that you can actually avoid it. Hell there's even Egotism in the UMS, but we can usually whittle it down to a more managable size through persuasion. But I digress. Anyways, when you have people stating outright that their stuff is invincible, or their characters unkillable(without even having anything like Godhood backing that up), then yes that's Egotism. It is also disturbingly common in NatRP. They can be egotistical pricks for all I care, it only bothers me when they bring it into the RP. As for me, my "ego" is just a well earned respect for the RP abilities I have developed over the past Decade... Not the destructive, volatile, Egotism that causes RPs to crash because someone didn't want to post any losses. With me, so long as you're not a fool on the tactical level, you can beat me in an RP. Probably even kill off a beloved character. That's a far cry from the people on this forum, and you know it. Or at least you should know it after this post.

They do. There's an entire in crowd in this community, centered around certain key members and their yes men. These people are the cause of the consent rule, as well, due to constant whining to the mods. Whining which got so bad, one mod basically ragequit his station, got on his forum account, and gave the whole community a "Reason you Suck" speech. So, yeah, there's a whiny, overly sensitive, clique in this community. Which do back each-other, unconditionally, against outsiders... They are, in fact, the reason the forum is so nonsensical. Because they do 80% of their RP in private, on discord. Ever notice how random treaties come up between nations, with no precedent?. That isn't because they were too lazy to RP it out, and decided it via messages. That is the result of these people, RPing it out on discord, for hours sometimes, and just posting the result. I wouldn't point how unproductive this is out to them on said discord, however, as they'll ban you. If you hadn't misinterpreted emphasis as rudeness, I wouldn't have felt compelled to show you actual rudeness in response. Stop whining over nothing. Seriously.

Whoo! Thank the Gods that I did a minor thing you could nitpick! Otherwise, you might have had to address my points... Dodged a bullet, am I right?

What a lovely, and productive member of the NatRP community... Egotism will get in the way of RP, with or without the consent rule. All the consent rule, in its current incarnation, does, is enable the crippling egotism that's running rampant in this community. Separating Ego from RP is not hard. One of my characters is about to be killed off on NationStates, along with an incredibly valuable military asset. Why? Because he got caught out of formation, surrounded by enemies. Essentially the man screwed up, due to his character being overconfident and bloodlusted(and me RPing that character accurately). Which brings me to the REAL problem with NatRP, especially the pro-consent rule faction: Most of you DON'T Role Play. You do not set a definite character for your kings/diplomats/generals/etc, and then commit to RPing them out faithfully (consequences be dammed.) Instead, you "RP" in the way most people "RP" a game like Fallout 4... Which is to say: You don't. At best you create a shallow persona, which you RP till the Meta dictates you break character to "win". You're not Role Playing, you're Playing Roles, and YES there is a distinction.

"Pass our land. Keep the flame from us, we will not burn." Nervously, Arishat raised the scepter. "Ready for comb-" No! Akil's voice cried out in her mind, as the will of the Kawakini was made clear to her. They did not profess hostile intent, merely a desire of sovereignty. All was made clear. She breathed a sigh of relief before lowering herself into the pool. Finally relaxing, before issuing a reply. "By the will of Akesh'i'uln Akil, Bahl'i'ai i Raht'i'ai. We will not settle your land. The desert will be our domain." She closed her eyes as she submerged fully under water. Finally she could rest her nerves. Her face broke the surface for but a moment, to relay orders. "Lower shields." So it was, that the craft returned to a more neutral state, and Arishat once again submerged. In her pool, all was calm and quiet, even as the ship rattled slightly upon the entry of Orbis's atmosphere. The slight jar cause the sorceress to open her eyes, once again woken to the presence of Akil who scoured the lands... Looking for the place to rest his throne. It was not long before they found it. A city, which reeked of the kind of desperation that made loyal Den. All the Jen'i'ai could feel the thirst of the Den, the thirst for salvation. Down below, the city was besieged by unholy beasts as a storm raged overhead. "Finally, it is time, to spread the fires." Akil finally spoke, his voice echoing through the ship as he stood. The Bahl'i'ai pressed his right hand forward, as his heavenly fire surged out of the ship and struck the storm. Sounds of thunders could be heard, echoing through the sky, as the rain began to be set alight by white flame. The fire fell down in a torrent upon the city and surrounding area. The holy flame of Akil was cold to the touch of Den, and dripped harmlessly off of the roofs, and across the battlements. But to the unholy beasts, this unearthly sight was a hellish one. For the abominations did not make good Den, for they consumed the potential vessels with an unholy curse. So they would be set ablaze, in the holy rain. As the craft of Akil did descend below the clouds, making itself known. From the craft, the blue flamed Jen'i'ai, whom had not yet taken Den, came down to the people. Turning clay pots to gold, gold rings to jade, and other displays of Alchemy, before returning to the craft. Which began lowering itself ever closer to the city. The people of the city were pressed with the spiritual weight of the collected Jen'i'ai, whose power radiated down upon the people like the glow of their flames.

The Void, .2 AU from Orbis A disheartened silence fell over the command center, as Arishat stood in silence. She stared deep into the image of the Grand Stream, as the vessel floated in the void. Its size, and similarities in design, caused the sorceress to briefly shudder. She did not like this situation, not one bit. "Incoming Transmission:" The voice of the Chet'i'vahlss, stone of understanding, echoed out, bringing Arishat's thoughts into the now. "Vessel stranger to content... The water clay, we know... You walk past ours... Why? What trade?" What strange words that the Akesh'i'tault pondered, as she strengthened her mental link with Akil. Unlike the unease of those upon the ship, Akil was calm and collected. He had felt the echoes of the Kawakini intentions in the void. The Bahl'i'ai's words filled Arishat's mind: Deliver my will. Arishat inhaled deeply, holding her breath for some time. Finally she spoke to the Chet'i'vahlss "Will of Bahl'i'ai, Akil: The Raht'i'ai shall be forged in the desert. Gods shall come to nurture the Den, and bring the fires of creation and renewal to these lands." The message was then sent. I don't know if your will shall be heard, Akesh'i'uln Akil, Bahl'i'ai i Raht'i'ai. Arishat lamented, to her master. It will, my child. By the grace of the eternal flame. The Den'i'kul gripped the scepter, raising it once more to the heavens. "Shields up, and pray for good fortune." Upon her utterance, darkening purple flames erupted from many of the ports along the hull, which spread out and formed a sphere of dark flame around the craft. Protecting the ship lite an Egg does the yolk. Arishat closed her eyes, and allowed the Den'i'ai flame to engulf her. With her left hand she pushed forward, covering the dark flamed shield with a brilliant red fire. This flame quickly faded into images of the desert, and the Jen landing and bestowing their blessings. The Sorceress could only hope her flame would be received kindly.

The Void, .3 AU from Orbis The vast fabric of PW-2, akin to the realm of naught stumbled upon by the Dunassi. Such a void was graced with divine light this rotation. A piercing white flame erupted in the heavens, tearing asunder the fabric space and time. This white flame, for but a moment, burned open a portal to that realm of splendor, and allowed the lone craft passage. Passage into a strange realm, filled with void, and strangely different laws of physics. The planets were spheres, where down was always the earth, and the void always above. Into this maddening void ventured the Bahl'i'ai, whom was called Akil by his subjects. He came to this land with one purpose, to forge the Raht'i'ai in this maddening void. A perilous endeavor, for none among the Jen'i'ai knew of this strange realm, or its dangers. This uncertainty filled those aboard Akil's vessel with something that they had not known for some time: uncertainty. The ship of Akil was large, even by Bahl'i'ai standards. The craft was Nine Kilometers from stem to stern and crafted largely of Jen'i'golm, the spiritually forged Clay of the Jen'i'ai. The craft was ornate in it's craftsmanship, with many carvings and bulges along the hull. The ship looked much like the Triremes of the Mediterranean, with piercing Jen'i'kessh bows. The prow of the craft's artistic flourish created an illusion of a fish's face, much like the boats of the Mediterranean as well. To the left and right of the Prow were eyes made of Jen'i'chet. Many such eyes, and ports, were along the craft, but those two were by far the largest and most attention grabbing. Akil meditated, deep within the furnace of the ship, as he reached out to the void with his mind to acquire as much knowledge as he could. His vessel of flesh, sat calmly in the white fires of the furnace, which brought light from the internals to bathe sections of the craft's hull in a white light. Such flame and glow came not from the ship, but from Akil himself. The Bahl'i'ai unleashed his own flame in the furnace, drenching the craft in his heavenly might. From this area, Akil was one with the vessel, and the fabric, as his mind contemplated all around him in his deep meditation. Deep in isolated meditation, Akil relinquished the duties of micromanaging the ship to his Akesh'i'tault. His hand, whom acted as leader of the craft for the Jen'i'ai. Normally for the Bahl'i'ai, another Jen'i'ai would take the mantle, but not for Akil. For amongst his ranks was the fearsome Arishat, a Den'i'kul of the Abi'i'den. A renowned sorceress, whom absorbed one of Akil's mightiest Jen'i'ai during the merging of Jen and Den. Arishat was an Abi'i'den, a fish like amphibian with limited shapeshifting abilities. Due to Jen'i'ai bias that the Ahk'i'den, humans, were among the most beautiful, Arishat had taken un a Humanoid Form. She stood bipedal, with a human shape, though retaining her aquatic features. She stood in the command center, grasping Akil's scepter, which was the mark of her status as Akesh'i'tault. Her eyes graced the visuals of a nearby world, largely comprised of water, a welcoming feature for one such as herself. "There, that desert. Akil will find that land suitable to his needs." She decreed to the ship, as Akil's will flowed through her mind. Though she would have wished a place more wet, her master was a man of the desert. "Set course, now." She declared, raising the scepter with one hand, as she motioned to the Gobi Desert with her left. With a deep sense of nervousness, she sank into her pool and contemplated the sights she had glimpsed. A round planet? She thought to herself. What an absurdity. Closing her eyes she reached out her minds eye and saw it once more. A floating ball, yet none of the water fell from it. The stories of the other realms were true. Their ways were maddening. How could such forms exist? The best she could imagine was that the inside was hollow, and somehow this allowed its existence. Despite all that the sorceress had witnessed in her years, this realm was most... Unnerving. Arishat let her eyes close, and sank fully into her pool and tried to relax her nerves. For a moment she reached a sense of peaceful calm before she heard the cry. "Akesh'i'Tault, the ball has void craft in orbit!" Arishat rose with haste, as she grasped her lords scepter. Her heart raced, unnerved by rumors she had heard from other realms. "The will of a Bahl'i'ai is no laughing matter, continue the approach!.. And ready the craft's defenses." Her voice boomed and echoed throughout the ship, as cries of acknowledgement rang through the internals. On this day, the Jen'i'ai would see the weight of the people of the void. OOC: Link to NS factbook. https://www.nationstates.net/nation=raht_i_ai/detail=factbook/id=787041

Unlike Eva you're making more sense, so such a long reply won't be needed. 1) I don't particularly see the near-meta ego stroking in a lot of the RP here as reasonable. Nor are the nonsensical overreactions, breaks of immersion, etc, I have observed. 2) Let's gloss over the fact that IRL, meetings between national leaders are far more publicly known and protocoled than tea parties with idle chatter for a second. If we get into the heart of why we've had this discussion before, it was due to the revelation that the reason some of the RP on the forums is nonsensical, is because it was RPed out on a different format, and that this is not new-user friendly. Additionally, it doesn't allow for fact checking. Think about it, Discord goes by FAST. Archiving all of the interactions is a nightmare. With a thread, you have a clear point of reference to go back to and look upon. This is key to RPing consistently. I can't even tell you how many times the man Dylan(Nalydya) has, in TS, said "to the archives", as he dug deep into a dead forums archived RPs looking for that one commander who did that one thing to reference. 3) I'll admit that I haven't kept up, no. I honestly, don't expect a vast jump in quality in such a short amount of time. If in depth is getting more love, that's good. If you guys are actually handling it with any finesse, that's great too. I, however, gave up scrolling for diamonds in the rough, after the 23rd "Ah yes, glorious me, this is what I did" and absurd concepts like "the Lesbian Pact". It wouldn't be so bad if these occurrences were from alt nations, which are parodies, but for them to be from the main nation and taken as having serious globe spanning reach... That's not what I call Reasonable RP.

1) That is bad RP, you ignore bad RP if they're unwilling to stop such shenanigans. Every forum has such people, many of whom are trolls. 2) Does the whole "I just reported a rule break" thing stand to task, when you broke the same rules in a thread just a few days earlier? (At the time merely mentioning the name of someone's nation was a breach of consent. You mentioned a whole lot of names in your travel ban thread) 3) See, this and that aren't nearly in the same vain as what you described prior. Like, at all. Maybe the closest would be albert, since he's taking control of civilians not tied to his nation but... Meh. See you've gone so long with this consent nonsense that you've forgotten what RPing conflict looks like. A state using guerilla tactics via insurgents, worded and RPed out in a way that doesn't claim success, etc, is just plain interesting RP. It's a far cry from the GMing shenanigans that started the consent rule... Unless you kids were mistaking quality RP then, for GM as well. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. But yes, from what I've heard (and observed), from not only: Reporting people for rule breaches you, yourself have committed. Leaving the map making behind abruptly, without giving anyone map files to continue the work. (The Map Drama from last year.) To throwing a tantrum, and convincing people to try and dethrone the mods, when your handling of the map was questioned and the mods decided neutral hands would be best. (AKA: The Map Drama from this year) To the things I have heard about from others in the community... Yes, yes I can indeed come to the conclusion that you whine and complain a lot. 4) What have WE done to them is a perfectly valid question, since I'M the only one doing anything. Which has been the most amusing thing about you kids since day one. Confusing the actions of a lone man, with those of an entire group. Then again, considering you RP your lone meta egos as having sway over vast swaths of people with 0% opposition or consequences. I can't be surprised. 5) Honestly, the rules wouldn't even be an issue if there was quality content. Sure, you guys are by your own admission Casuals, but that doesn't mean you can't actually... Oh, I don't know, perfect your "hobby" now does it?

As belligerent as I am, there is a point: Random events won't save NatRP, because there are deeper issues than inactivity holding the forum back. I would try to NOT be a dick about explaining it, but, well, when I tried that once and no one cared. LOL. Just like how Four's suggestion got shot down, only to be loved when someone else brings it up. You all will hear what you want to here. But who knows, maybe if I keep frothing at the mouth enough, one day one of you will be like "hey some of the forum rules are kinda stupid", and all of you will suddenly be like "yah! they are stupid and they hinder rp!". And then another would cry out "Maybe we should try to write things out in depth, and stop hiding all of the RP on discord?", the response would be epic as the voices cried out in unison "Yeah! Maybe what we're doing could actually make sense!? Maybe we should tell the new guy in Arabia to acknowledge the vast and sorted history of the region that's come about in RP?" To which someone would question "But which history should be accepted, if we accepted it all none of it would make sense..." Bringing about the RP enlightenment: "Well, I guess it's a good thing things are changing. Maybe we should wipe it all away and start anew?" All because some !@#$ kept yelling at you till, years after he vented all he could, you finally were brainwashed into getting good by his message that lingered somewhere in the back of your mind. Ah yes, here lies David, unrecognized savior of NatRP. Brings a tear to my eyes. If only I could have as much closet influence on the subconscious as Four/Max.

Hahahaha. Yeah, I don't see how these kids who whine when you mention their nations name are gonna handle waking up to aliens landing in front of their capital... I don't see how people who write out "I are king, everyting purfect" will be able to make any quality content out of these scenarios anyways. Organic is where quality RP is at. Unfortunately, I and some others have been busy on NS threads as well. (That's why I haven't posted yet.) But at least the realm of PW-2 is stable, and not prone to insane national policies, and nations just disappearing from the realm and history, never to be seen again. Seriously, how can a community even develop a proper lore, if an integral member just disappears and some new nation is not only where that member used to be... But also seems to claim to have always been there, with no remnant of the former nation's culture present, or even acknowledged?

I thought NatRP was for that tho? If you confine it to a single thread, 90% of the forum's content's gonna be on this thread.