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Shadowthrone

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Everything posted by Shadowthrone

  1. I mean for burning the said player is not my call. But I do have the unblackened out logs and did share it with people necessary. What Mr X.'s logs point out is that at the moment you did not have the numbers. What Adrienne's statements later on in private DMs folks said she's waiting to turn back and whack us once BK's front is locked down. Put those two together and you can see why we did not wish to wait for things to play out. If the leader of TKR does want to roll us for being complicit in actions that we had no part off, and could pull of a hit, we'd be sitting ducks. That was our prevailing mindset and we did indeed hit TKR because of that. I mean I do not carry out wars because I believe "TKR is out to get us" as the sole reason. If there is proof, we'll make the call and given the situation it was a hard judgement call and we did it. I mean I pretty much have been stating what the logs were, and that you've deleted your DMs since I was told of the same. It really is nothing else to "clarify" lol. The folks sharing the information are people who's word I'd pick over most others in this game and it is what it is. I'm fairly certain that the conversations did happen and given the fact you went back to delete stuff in the conversations, I'm more certain of it lol. I mean I would not stake my alliance's entry into this war based of someones word unless I do believe in the truthfulness of whom was sharing the nature of the conversation with me.
  2. I mean w/e. If folks keep bringing up that post, its an impression that they are looking for a slug fest. I'm not interested in responding for their humour. I do selectively respond to posts, only those that make concise/logical arguments and undertake the exercise to have a conversation based off that. If someone's post is a "gotcha" or some kind of imitation of argument, I generally do not respond, not worth my time. I mean there are a variety of causes that folks tend to coalesce around alliances. Kinda hard to be independent when you're constantly threatened/trolled on and then a "fun" war suddenly turns up at your doorstep and everyone's got to accept that status quo. Moreover, communities who may not be the most competent militarily but do wish to remain as one for whatever purpose requires an umbrella of security. If folks coalesce around those who are willing to give them a chance, offer security and protect them from being hit for "fun", I imagine they would return the favour when the situation arises. The reason folks like Citadel stay on with BK as stated by EM is that they offer them unconditional support and security and if independent, folks would try to bully them out of existence. Seeing the general rhetoric of being bullies, threatening alliances with rollings if they don't cancel treaties and/or force alliances to do things on others terms, I'd point in that direction for the existence of tC/BK/Citadel as a large bloc. I mean the culture of might makes right/bullying/forcing folks to dance for someone else's enjoyment seems to be a prevailing trend in this game, and folks who do not wish to play by those standards will do what is necessary to ensure they do not have to. So I'd suggest taking a good hard look at those cultural aspects of the state of foreign policy before passing value judgement statements on alliances and their relationships with one another. That is you twisting their words lmao. I just called out folks thinking Frawley's comments are some sort of proof that IQ exists. His comments as dealt with him earlier in various threads points to the fact if folks are going to label us as such, might as well do it since damned if you do, damned if you don't. That has been the prevailing public opinion so w/e. If Roq wanted IQ to remain, he would not have pulled us out of it for N$O. Moreover, I have no plans for stopping something that is not happening at the moment. Even if I did, those are questions I really do not need to answer for a future "gotcha" post later on.
  3. Ha, not attack us now. Given that Adrienne went on to state that its temporary and she's hoping to lock BK down and come around to hit us, we acted. Now, again you need not have to buy that given that I do not have the screenshots of her in those conversations, and that sucks, but it is what it is. If anyone's lied here regarding things, I'd point that way and if the IQ logs/discussions that appear later on, the tCW's involvement originally to me seems far more duplicitous. Also to whomever was quoting Frawley's logs earlier as proof, its hilarious. IQ's dead and I would like to keep it that way. Alas' lets see how things proceed from here.
  4. That would be what the Friday before last I think, can ask Dio to give you an exact date. In essence, that made us perk up, and combined with the information on Adrienne + her deletion of logs and post that with whats going on, we were put into a position of whether the attack is down the road. Its why we did what we did. Moreover the rest of the logs was the whole picture that Dio wished to share. It did show that Adrienne has lied to us, and that given the plans that were shared later on with TKR/CoS having tCW go about trying to peel away allies and create a ghost minisphere up until IQ broke, or hope that those pick ups would be useful to their side till that relationship went to shit, was curious to read about. What interests me though is TKR's more recent actions, and statements made by her. Again, there is no log to dump here and as I've stated in other threads that is my biggest regret, not getting those screenshotted before deleted, but given the individuals who did share the basics of the conversation, and my faith/trust in their words, it was enough to do what we did. Mind you, I was the one that shared the information with Roq and post which we spent a few days discussing our course of action, including with the sphere at large. May not have been the easiest of discussions, but it was a time bound/pressure situation and we work with what we have. It's easy to go around shitting on players/leaders and calling them liars, but most of you who have been in spheres and the centre of politics know how these things go, we do the best with what we have and work with it for our alliance/community/game at large. Again, given our experience and knowledge of strategy, if we did indeed want to defend BK as is stated here, we'd have done a bunch of things differently and aided them entirely with our best foot forward. That is not the case here. I'm less interested in y'all going around having a grudge match unless that match is brought to my doorstep, or will eventually be coming to our end of the treaty web. In that case we would act as we need to. You all are forgetting that we always had an in into this war and could have optionally gone in with Polaris if we really wanted that route, rather than tacitly agree to tS' war with GoB/Guardian. Again, our intentions was not to scheme/hit TKR for the sole purpose of defending BK, but it was a confluence of things that arose that made us act. You may disagree with that, and its fine. But what is disappointing is the general level of debate here, outside the few folks who take it seriously enough to discuss the variety of issues. I mean we're all on the opposite sides of this for now, but thats always subject to change, as is most foreign policy in the game, so the levels of personal/ooc dislike is funny given that we may end up working together in the future lol. It's a war, it'll end however and we'll move on to the next one ?‍♀️. Lest everyone's decided this how its going to be for the rest of Orbis' time and that's fine lol, we'll play with those circumstances and continue doing what we have to do as a community to survive here. Thanks, we aim to please There were a lot of things in flux in the last couple of weeks. I mean we've tried to do the best we can to folks involved with N$O and done what we could given the choices we had foreseen at the given moment. I mean that's pretty much your side's argument till date. The sudden turn around is funny into calling them three individual blocs. But I mean the way I look at it is that given their ties, they are one larger sphere and may operate as different parts (I'm not really in touch with BK's allies in a few months, so no idea how things work between Citadel/BK), I do know that given their treaty ties, you folks decided they are one large sphere. So trying to turn that around is kinda hilarious. If I need to respond to tS, I'll do it in private with Flame/Sisyphus or anyone involved. I'm not interested in a public sling fest for your humour
  5. Why would it have to be made public? Nevertheless, that was the working agreement Kayser/Roq and ourselvees agreed to. The former did wish to post it publicly, but alas we never did. There was a specific vision with which tS/NPO/HS got together, and that vision involved in trying to make the minisphere attempt work (even if I'm still skeptical of the whole idea from experience), but thats the deal, and thats why we signed what we did. Firstly, no that wouldn't be three spheres. But yes, if BK/KETOG did indeed combine for a hit and Kayser was still around, quite certain we'd be having discussions to aid Chaos lol. That was the vision document, but the idea was we'd work with whomever, whenever to try keeping the game away from bi-polarity for as long as possible. Yeah well we have to go with the information we have, and when we trust the individual enough, we will act upon it. Moreover, we did also post the logs of Chaos gov discussing plans on hitting N$O which confirmed our suspicions at the time. If we did indeed want to join into this war to aid BK, I daresay we'd have done a myriad of things differently. Our intent was not that as much as when the information was received, we decided on rectifying the situation. Your combination is one thing, but the logs/information add a different dimension to the situation. Our entrance is based off that. Nice of you suddenly to consider BKsphere as three separate spheres though, thats a first here! Yes and? Mostly defending ourselves, but I mean hitting based off plots is a valid CB when you do it, and not when anyone else does it, got it. Woo boy, yes, spending billions on growth for every member is definitely a bad idea! Great, try again.
  6. Which is? I mean there have been conversations from a variety of people, asking us if we're interested in collaborating and we've politely refused in all cases. Its pretty much that simple lol. I mean there has been a variety of approaches to both tS/NPO in the last few months, and in both cases I can confidently state the approaches were refused, and informed each other in the most cases that said approaches were made. So yeah we had 0 involvement in tC's planning or this idea of a combined war.
  7. I mean if our crime is that we were approached, guilty as charged, similar to how almost every sphere approached us to roll someone or the other. If the plan was fleshed out to have us, this would be the first I am hearing of it, given there has been zero contact with tCW and the rest of tC regarding the war plans. As someone privy to those discussions, it’s quite easy to answer your speculation with regards to their approach.
  8. Again what a load of crock. There never existed any agreement with Aragorn of BK. The agreement was with Kayser to defend any sphere that’s hit by a combined sphere in this game. Any sphere meaning if BK decides to combine with chaos to KETOG, we’d most likely have been in defending KETOG under the terms of that agreement we made. Though continue lying. Nothing like an alliance being run by lying trash no?
  9. Lmao, BK did not know about anything, reading rather than twisting words helps. It was an agreement between Kayser and ourselves. Had nothing to do with BK and as I did explain to folks later on, it was an agreement that would have defended any sphere from a combined attack. Quite simple really.
  10. Not what I said bud ? I said plays differently
  11. Hey only TKR's allowed to play to win. Anyone else who plays differently is a threat to their game ?‍♀️
  12. I did speak to Charlie about this and explain why there's heat regarding this audio clipping @Kevanovia. I was disappointed that Charlie decided to use it, and explained it to him why and cleared it out with him as to why exactly folks reacted strongly to it. If you do want to know the story, feel free to DM or catch it on the generational divide this friday night Yes only TKR are allowed to deal with threats and enforce terms including cancellation of treaties, while the NPO dealing with their threats is killing the game. Got it. Nice try.
  13. I have no idea where there's victimhood anywhere there, but I guess I take that lack of response as umm, you have nothing? Fair enough.
  14. I'll actually deal with this, since its the operative portions of your argument Abbas. The TKR wanting to roll IQ logs is not the key to our entrance, but something that made things interesting. The key portion to our entrance is a) The logs of present Chaos gov confirming indeed they were planning to roll N$O. b) Enough intelligence from folks who've told us whats been told to them. My biggest regret was not having them screencap atm and share it, and that is something I'll learn from this I guess. I'm not even bothered whether I hit TKR or KETOG or BK or whomsoever plans to rolls us and we have that information. That is where our decision lies. That is something we'll see a few weeks down the road anyway. Always fun to be on the losing side, given post war if we did hit either bloc, we'd be blamed for being opportunistic and supremacy arguments will rain galore. I mean our call to hit Chaos now was not made in haste, nor was it an easy choice given the stakes involved. It was done because we did believe there was a credible threat of being rolled piecemeal and we'd prefer to be out in front of it. Lol. I wish TKR did indeed have such a place of importance in our alliance that we want to roll you on a daily basis. I mean there's no love lost, and our feelings on one another are clear, but the last time I pushed a war on TKR was in October and since then haven't really bothered. Would you be a threat sometime down the road, probably, but would we still hate each other? I really don't know. This war isn't a result of some set of grudges, just a result of what we received, and what we knew when we made the decision. Back to where you were 2 years ago? Running the largest hegemony the game has seen I imagine? Fun fun, looking forward to it. Good projection there, we haven't whined about the lack of dynamism in the game, just pointed out how EMC was a chokehold until IQ was formed. Given that we had fought what two back to back curbstomps and alliances decided to skip town and sign up with EMC, we pointed that one out. When EMC first split, it was called out to be fake, and later confirmed by your own government, when trying to work out a deal with us, so I mean it isn't victimhood, as much as calling a spade a spade. We played just fine with the minisphere rules. Regardless got called out for it, is what it is. Respectable to believe IQ hasn't split but the arguments were silly given it revolved around a damned ODoAP. When Sphinx's logs released, we were as surprised as anyone else in tS/HS since well like I stated earlier, I haven't had a conversation with tC over any specific war, since N$O had its own thing planned. I love your rhetoric of trying to kill the game, and I have zero interest that. Good call to arms boi, but I have zero interest in being on the top, or staying there because well its not the vision I have for the NPO or we have as a community at large. What you and your alliance are doing though is quite interesting. We'll continue the good fight, as you say, for the game and the sake of our alliances, given how the only ones to call for our disbandment come from your side of the war, and your wonderful government members calling us cancer lol.
  15. Lets break this up part by part shall we? 1) Firstly yes, when Kayser approached us regarding an IQ split, and given the differences between BK/NPO with the future, we did take the shot and move out. N$O was formed on the simple premise that tS/HS/NPO would be the sphere and any ally not on the rest of the treaty web could be grandfathered in. It was intentional to keep cutting treaties until tS/HS were secure with the knowledge we meant business in splitting and doing our own thing. The intent was clear, and specific promises were made between Kayser/NPO/HS and those promises are easily forgotten through this mess. 2) Upper tier consolidation is something we've always been against, and signed up to the terms of our original war because that is an issue that needs addressing. Meanwhile, we receive word of TKR planning to hit us, from Chaos gov, logs posted earlier in this thread, and another trusted source stating something similar. Meanwhile TKR government members start clearing out DM chats with folks involved, and while its a weak argument given the screencaps are unavailable, we're moving forward with the source since I trust them enough on information like this. This combined with the Chaos logs, gives us a firm belief, that the Guardian/GoB hit without expanding is a serious security threat and that Chaos looking to roll us even piecemeal is best dealt with at the moment. There are no narratives, and tS/HS can confirm for the most bit, we don't particularly care about Chaos or KETOG in terms of hate boners, what we did push is the necessity of this given the constantly updating situation. It explains our messy entrance, because as information is received, we make decisions and that our judgement call. 3) Sphinx's logs with Akuryo as he stated was a long conversation on different fronts. If that is your claim for us defending BK, its laughable at best. I have had no interaction with Sphinx until yesterday, and any previous interaction would be related to Orion and loans. Our interaction with BK apart from me being chewed out for abandoning them, was nothing different to our interaction with KETOG. Do I want to be here defending BK? Not really if I had a choice and it wasn't a huge risk. What I do know, is there was evidence, a dialling up of rheotric, because its nice to see ya'll claiming you were willing to trust us, ,while most of the tS DoW thread was basically calling us out as IQ-lite lol. So its a sudden 180 and fits your narratives well. But quite untrue. 4) Hitting TKR on what grudge? We have a variety of grudges, but if I'm pushing for an expansion, I would not do it because of a grudge match. In this case, it was threat, the logs and intelligence kept building into that, and in public whatever we did was," omg you were IQ lite anyway, collaboration!." Given all of that, it seemed clear we're on the chopping block, and we do what we have to defend ourselves. If thats somehow IQ has never disbanded too bad, we've been pushed into this corner, and it sucks but it is what it is.
  16. @Keegoz this coupled with another couple of trusted folk who personally told us TKR was planning to hit us, but DMs have been deleted before screencaps were taken, pointed to the inevitable. The question was would KETOG sign up because of our hit on GoB/Guardian, or not, or if its a consolidated sphere vs the N$O. The other thing was the timely nature of the confirmation. If we waited six months, it''d be similar to some sort of DDR weak CB or let it slide and than hope that you folks break up post war and hope for the best. Hoping wasn't an option I was particularly interested and here we are.
  17. Partly. They were untouchable for years, so the NPO and few others got together to revamp their econ and eventually went after them. Just required almost every active alliance in the game left to be able to bring about balance. Also Scarf, in game politics is different to dragging shit from across games, knowing the OOC connotations of what was going on. But if thats the sword you're going to fall on, all good mate. Love to see you folks to dig yourself out of that one. @Keegoz what fundamentally changed was logs of Chaos gov, confirming plans were on to hit N$O. Given that, it changed things around since we either hope out of the goodness of your hearts to not come after us, or bring the inevitable forward. Sucks it has to be this way, but yeah, given the logs and the intent from Chaos leadership there, just seems counterproductive to wait and hope there isn't a future stitch up in coalitions once again.
  18. A super tier alliance from another game that was untouchable for a few years
  19. Lol its not a joke to drag an interview from 2012 over something different in another world, specifically to grief Roquentin over in game political differences. Rapmanej has been going around sharing that recording as some sort of proof that Roquentin can have terrible days and designed it such to keep dragging shit up from different worlds. I mean if that's acceptable jokes now, go ahead, but it is a new low and had some semblance of expecting better from folks ?‍♀️
  20. Harassing Roquentin from something that happened seven years ago. Well played folks (y). Really love how low some of you folks can go
  21. Hard to play to a gallery that wouldn’t believe otherwise and receiving logs from Chaos gov that there were discussions on rolling N$O. Moreover, also specific inputs regarding rolling NPO to trusted friends of ours. Given the new information, sitting out and waiting our turn doesn’t seem to be worth it, might as well hit while we can ?‍♀️
  22. I'm thinking of going with the Steakhouse with my saltbae @Sisyphus. Or maybe even the true Seven Kingdoms. The North Remembers
  23. Tsk tsk, did I get the wrong memo on how things work here again? Last I remember Sphinx stating something now paints N$O entirely! I thought was only fair to return the favour Yes it is indeed. Not for the reasons I assume you'd attribute to it, but least we can agree on something
  24. I mean lol sure. Does look funny at tying things up the moment they've been mentioned. So by the look of thee evidence and confirmation of the same, I'll continue believing that you did have plans of hitting N$O. Funny is all at the end of the day, us showing restraint aand not actually releasing pressure on BK, is construed as collusion, when there are 150 NPO nations, who're ready and well within our killzone to aid BK completely. I mean logic predicts that if we did indeed have a stitch up with BK, we'd be either on KT/TGH or TKR and even with our valid CBs regarding the latter, we're restraining ourselves. So yeah, take that as you will, but if our intentions are to save BK, we're doing a shitty job of it lol.
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