Ayayay

Sheepy, what did I do? I can change. Just lift your embargo of me. We can talk it out. Don't starve me of overpriced, not-supposed-to-be-accepted admin trades. ... ... ... Sheepy? Edit: Wait, what? I've commented in IRC, I am against this. Implement a depowered situation instead. That's not a sustainable solution Sheepy

Hereno lives in his own fantasy universe (I'd totally trade him for lamba) It should cost double/triple the resources sent. Throw in a NP to lower it to 25% higher.

Lies

Then you won't make the mistake of joining them Anyways, there is no real reason for me to comment on this any further. I shall however bet $10k that this alliance ends in flames.

It doesn't actually destroy the planes, which is what I was getting at

That's the Sunni-Shia split. ISIS claims to be the "true" [sunni] Islam which most crazy groups tend to do. (Litterally any religion)

Sheepy only cares about Fascism The problem with helping freedom fighters is that you can't be sure they won't turn around and oppress the people they just fought against. There is also the problem of destabilizing a country and throwing it into anarchy, is living a life under fear and oppression worse than death in a civil war? That's not a question everyone can agree on. I personally believe that oppression is worse than death but people can't seem to agree with me on anything, no idea why.

Gulps the drink down Someone I knew awhile back used to do the same thing (although they posted pictures of the drinks/food) I'll have another.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions Adama, you would do well to remember it. In the same way the Ukraine Crisis gives the world something to talk about. I, for one, don't care for all this nonsense. I much preferred when Orbis was quieter. But alas, the ancient ones don't wield the neigh infinite power they once did. Thus, you have been given far more chances than you likely deserve. You should quit while you aren't on a ZI list, go join an established alliance and learn the ropes before doing this again because I doubt Orbis would give you a (6th? I've lost count) chance.

It's already quite liberal. The failing here is assuming terrorists follow it, if they did they wouldn't be killing each other as Islam is pretty clear on the don't kill each other doctrine.

Welcome!

underlordgc walks in with a strange sense of deja-vu. He sits down at the counter wondering if he has met this bartender before. Eventually he shakes off the feeling. I'll just have a gin and tonic.

Ships cannot hurt aircraft, soldiers cannot hurt aircraft, and tanks cannot hurt aircraft. Only aircraft can hurt aircraft. Attacking ships means fighting your opponents aircraft.

Everything I say is a convoluted expansion of someone else's point.

I think your missing the point, new nations barely understand the Beige mechanics, I doubt they will know they are forfeiting their color bonus as an applicant. These already exist, applicants do show up when you look through the alliance member list but they don't contribute score, military, or to the total nation count of the alliance. I feel that is absolutely useless. You're saying that when alliances need to pay off members of other alliances (for raiding repayment or other personal reasons) it should instead be withdrawn by a member of that alliance and then sent as a personal trade? Why wouldn't people do this to send money to applicants? That was your own point

Except we didn't. We completely dismantled the Austro-Hungarian Empire and to add insult to injury the peace terms we forced upon them prevented them from uniting with their brothers in Germany. After WW2 we treated the Austrians as a nation forcibly annexed against their will. I'm surprised that HIL still exists after all the trouble they've caused.

Don't forget that air superiority halves tank effectiveness. So tanks are worth 40/20

Already time for another round?

But then why would an alliance ever set an applicants status to "pending?" They could just leave it on "sent" and not bother to change it. Also what happens if someone leaves an alliance and joins another one then months down the line the two alliances fight each other, the one that left could apply and have funds stolen that way.

The fact is Nationalism probably won't die for a long time. Remember, Nationalism is new. The idea that a nation is responsible only to its citizens, that a state does not have the right to intervene in another states affairs, that authority is derived from the people, or that a person is part of a nation instead of a religion and town. It's an absurd concept if you go back a few centuries. In fact, the very idea of nationalism and self-determination can be traced back to the Peace of Westphalia in 1648. People seem to forget that America was an oddity, while the first country to experience nationalism was arguably the British Empire with songs like "Rule, Britannia!" it was still an exception in a sea of localism. In fact, America was arguably the first nation that could be considered Nationalistic as we had no culture yet we began to call ourselves "Americans" over "New Yorker" or "Georgian." We built our entire Constitution on this absurd idea of Nation while trying to take ideas from the Roman Republic and the Iroquois Confederacy. We created a Democratic Republic combined it with the values of Freedom and Equality and tried holding it together with the idea that we are all one and the same. I personally think the problem is that people take nationalism and self-determination for granted. Most people can't seem to comprehend how people thought of themselves before nationalism or how the very idea of a nation state was constructed less than 400 years ago. (And perhaps it isn't even that old) Take the French Revolution for example, how many people in France do you think actually spoke French? Now, how many do you think spoke it well? The answer? Only half the state spoke French and less than 15% spoke it well. The First French Republic was when the idea of "We are French" came to be a norm and the resulting Napoleonic Wars resulted in Nationalistic sentiments dispersing throughout Europe. "We are Prussians" and "We are Italians" were foreign concepts before those wars. The fact is that Nationalism is still young and it has yet to run its course. However, when one looks back we can see the countering ideas of religion and the state(or ruler of that state) has always been on a Seesaw. Religion and the idea that God is the ultimate authority has not truly recovered in the past 200 years. There has only been a handful of times were it has regained some traction (the Great Awakenings and the Islamic revival being some of the few) but it never regained its place as the ultimate authority. Even in the Islamic world, religion is not as powerful as it was several hundred years ago. I personally believe that the question we should be asking is, "Will Nationalism continue to be the main driving force for the next several hundred years or will Religion overtake it once more?"

I thought it was obvious that Bgorre raged and kicked half the membership before being reported to the authorities by Ragnar.

The problem is it will hurt the applicant, not the alliance. The applicant is already on a color and thus the other members of the color are already benefiting from it. The applicant will only suffer as they would be forfeiting this bonus. (And knowing the average user, they wouldn't even know they were forfeiting the bonus) Even if Sheepy changed the system so that applicants didn't affect the color stock, a more activeish applicant could switch AA to none before the turn change and reapply, still getting the color stock bonus. (Remember, when not in an alliance a player gets any color stock bonus they want)

I'm against this, sometimes it takes a few days to approve someone. I also know some alliances like having applicants for a few weeks before accepting them to make sure they are actually active. I do agree, however, that alliances should be unable to move status to applicant.

They were to busy being #1 o/ EoS

Well going by historical precedent, it your nations becomes Fascist, in a little over a decade you will have a 50% chance of ending up free or a commie.