Dindu

I see you're completely impartial, with a title like the 'People's Republic' for your nation, and a history of reporting people for having memes in their names. And, as usual, you handwave the millions of deaths deliberately caused by people calling themselves communists and socialists on a political basis by comparing them with atrocities committed by imperial powers in the 19th and early 20th centuries, falsely attributing the deaths to "capitalism". Since you are actually the first in this thread to outright defend what happened in China and the Soviet Union, I invite you to pack your bags and move to Venezuela right away. You won't, because your mom won't let you. Edit: It's easy to speak in abstract terms about whether or not the "pace of development" was needed in the Soviet Union. The famines were absolutely caused by the communists. The Holodomor and Povolzhye famines were caused by the authorities expropriating all grains produced by the peasants for "redistribution". I'm honestly getting tired of arguing with you and I'm going to be banned from the forum soon too. Just remember that my family is from the former USSR (from Ukraine) and I've heard stories from my grandparents about eating grass when they were little kids. My great grandfather went missing in the war and was never found. My parents were still wiping their asses with cut up newspapers up until the mid 90s. It's disgusting that being accused by some communist cuck of being a "waycis" gets me a permaban without any warning, but idiots like you can run around waving flags that have the blood of tens of millions of people on them. It's really easy to philosophize about the virtues of command economies when you're living in a cushy white suburb somewhere in the US; if you went to Poland right now, or any of the other former Marxist utopias, you'd get beat to a bloody pulp for waving around your stupid red flags before you could even begin to say "communism wasn't tried."

1. Better steal someone else's shit then, right? If a bunch of communists were stranded on a desert island, would they starve to death because they have no starting capital, or would they kill each other, one by one, for betraying the revolution? 2. Do people still think the Iraq war was about oil? The whole idea of the US military industrial complex is that companies like Lockheed Martin will lobby the government to get into wars and buy their products. You might say it is a fault of capitalism, but in reality the problem is political corruption. This is leading into my next point... 3. Organized crime is not "capitalism" and getting beheaded by Mexican cartels has nothing to do with capitalism or market economics. You're really reaching now. Also, I haven't head these death squads in Venezuela, but I can tell you that I spoke to a number of Venezuelans who are sick of not being able to wipe their !@#$ clean. Ultimately, your argument still boils down to an appeal to hypocrisy, which doesn't support your position at all.

Why should I waste my time trying to disprove a logical fallacy? Whenever a communist gets cornered he pulls the same "No true Scotsman" excuse of "real communism hasn't been tried!" Any Western capitalist democracy permits you to create a cooperative corporation where all employees share in the ownership. A similar system of ownership existed in socialist Yugoslavia, considered one of the more successful communist states, with only cooperatives being permitted. There's absolutely nothing stopping you and your comrades from collectively owning the memes of production, but for some reason lots of people just want to start working for some other person and then complain that they aren't being paid enough. Maybe because the proletarians don't actually want to collectively own anything, they just want FREE SHIT while the boss man thinks for them. But that's besides the point, since we're talking about communism, and every movement that has called itself a socialist or communist has, in one form or another, advocated for state owned enterprise, the removal of individual freedoms, and the transfer of authority away from traditional institutions or democratic forums, and into the hands of unelected committees of communist intellectuals and diverse transwomen of color. The significance of deaths that took place under communist regimes is precisely that the people who perpetrated them were saying "I am liquidating the following elements of the population to build socialism. I am taking your food to give you socialism. I am putting you in forced labor camps for your own good." You have to be either mentally ill or suicidal to find a way to starve to death in contemporary America or Europe; meanwhile, North Koreans are eating grass and everything outside of their Potemkin village capital is in ruins. It must be the capitalists again, right? I have yet to see a capitalist country where privately contracted death squads were hunting people for wanting a raise at their Wal Mart clerk position, so you can take your whataboutism and shove it.

You don't say. I've been around the block and heard it all, guys. You need to start coming up with some original material.

Still throwing around petty insults, I see. I presume you don't have any thing to comment about the millions of people that were starved to death or murdered for thoughtcrime? Or my refutation of the disgusting infographic denying that Stalin killed anyone using faulty logic, one par with Holocaust denial?

I'm sure you've read Wealth of Nations, as well as Das Kapital, all of Lenin's essays, Stalin's memoirs, and Slavoj Zizek's schizophrenic ramblings. It couldn't be that the Nation Simulator community hasn't changed at all since 2007, when all the commie kids were spouting off the names of books they haven't read that they spotted in a footnote from an article they saw posted on RevLeft once.

Ah, finally, the mommy's 16 year old proletarians have arrived with their tired whataboutist excuses. Listen, kid, the numbers I gave were very conservative in that they were extremely lowball. I've seen your infographic denying that Stalin killed anyone floating around on leftypol threads on another website, and only a retard could fall for them. Notice how the 1926-1951 numbers are very carefully chosen to exclude the years during which the first Red Terror took place during the civil war (1918-1922), where an estimated 140,000 people were executed by the KGB predecessor, the Cheka, and the Povolzhye famine, which was caused by the forcible expropriation of crops produced by the peasants for use by the Red Army during the civil war. It is estimated that two to five million people died during the Povolzhye famine. Furthermore, the Soviet Union annexed a number of territories between 1939 and 1945, including a part of Finnish Karelia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bessarabia (Moldova), Eastern Poland, Kaliningrad, and Sakhalin. Following the war, many people on occupied territories were forcibly repatriated into the Soviet Union. Finally, 1951 is several years after the end of the Second World War; from 1936 to 1955, abortion in the Soviet Union was made illegal due to concerns about population growth (probably because they were killing millions of their own citizens). All these factors can account for the numbers in your image, which show a superficial increase in population numbers. Edit: Just remember that when you deny deaths caused by communism, that it's illegal in many places to deny the Holocaust. You are no better than a Holocaust denier. What did China do to "end all famines"? Do you mean the campaign to "destroy the four pests", where Chinese people were ordered to run around with pots and pans scaring sparrows so they would fly until they died of exhaustion? The campaign that reduced rice production because the sparrows ate insects that fed on crops? The only thing the Chinese did to stop the famine was temporarily kick Mao out of office until he caused millions of more deaths in the Cultural Revolution, where 30 million people died. If communism is so great, why don't you go to Venezuela. I hear over there, they have just about reached a moneyless society just like Marx predicted. Just make sure to bring your own toilet paper, because it's a deficit item there; not that you're going to have much to shit since there's nothing to eat either.

Should non-whites stop raping and murdering white people in their own countries while living off of government welfare?

Do you have anything to respond to? All I've seen so far are the snarky, dismissive comments typical of those elicited when attempting to discuss anything with a liberal. Not only is whether or not I am a racist irrelevant to the discussion, but Karl Marx was indeed a Jew, as was Vadimir Ulyanov (Lenin), and if you attach some sort of negative connotations to their ethnicity, your accusations of racism towards myself are nothing more than psychological projection. If you are not prepared to address any of my points regarding communism, I kindly ask you to remove yourself from the debate.

I know the nuance might be lost on an edgy high school communist LARPer, but the government of the USA did not systematically kill millions of their own citizens over the course of the 20th century. The US doesn't send people to labor camps where they're worked to death, or test chemical weapons on pregnant women--things that the Marxist utopia of North Korea is doing in THIS century. Remember when Chavez and his commie fan club were spreading their hype about the Socialism of the 21st Century? You probably don't because you were still seven years old back in 2005. Well look at Venezuela today, food shortages, toilet paper shortage, even a shortage of coffins (all this is verifiable from Wikipedia), all by the communist playbook. I guess now that people are starving to death again, it turns out this wasn't REAL communism either, right? That is why you look like a !@#$ing stupid tool defending communism, not because it's made by an enemployed syphilitic jew in the 19th century.

Since a lot of players in this game like to roleplay as some shade of commie, I'd like to remind everyone (especially the people who call me a racist as if it's the worst thing in the world) about the death toll from the mass killings of communist regimes: USSR -- 20 million China -- 65 million Vietnam -- 1 million North Korea -- 2 million Cambodia -- 2 million Eastern Europe -- 1 million Latin America -- 150,000 Africa -- 1.7 million Afghanistan -- 1.5 million Communist movements, parties not in power -- 10,000 The death toll listed for the USSR does not include the casualties of war, though it should for several reasons. Firstly, when Stalin implemented Order No. 227 (not one step back) in 1942, retreating Soviet soldiers were to be shot by NKVD commissars. Thousands of people died in this war. Furthermore, over 22,000 Polish people were murdered in the Katyn forest following the USSR's illegal invasion of Poland; these people were buried in a mass grave as though they were animals. The Katyn massacre was part of an ongoing series of massacres staged by the NKVD against political prisoners in Eastern Europe. Overall, it is estimated that 100,000 people died in this way. The death toll for the USSR also does not reflect surviving victims of communist abuse. When the Red Army "liberated" Europe, they were known to rape all the women on formerly occupied territories, including their own; they even raped female prisoners of German concentration camps. Up to 2 million German women are estimated to have been raped by the Soviet occupation forces, with an estimated 100,000 raped in Berlin alone. Edit: I forgot to add, for those who want to say that these repressions are limited to Stalin, that after Stalin's death and until the end of the USSR's existence, thousands of people were forcibly committed to psychiatric hospitals where they were imprisoned and drugged for political reasons. The Soviet doctors specifically invented a mental illness (sluggish schizophrenia) that was vague enough to diagnose anyone when it was expedient to do so. Also, the GULAG forced labor camps were not closed after Stalin's death, and remained operational until prisoner riots pressured the state to close them down. Shortly after Stalin's death, amnesty was granted to many prisoners of the GULAG camps, but what is not mentioned, is that political prisoners were not granted amnesty and remained in the camps. In Cambodia, where Pol Pot killed an estimated 2,000,000 people, the population is yet to recover from the systematic genocide of intellectuals. People were killed for wearing glasses because the communist party assumed it meant they were smart. Cambodia, today, is one of the poorest nations in the world. If you ever see someone on this board and want to scream "racist!", just remember how much of a hypocrite you are if you don't do the same for any of the clowns sporting commie imagery in their signatures.

Nation Name: Madiq Nation Link: https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=41538