Roquentin

Um, when your FA head kept saying "we can't have another war. Our members don't want to fight. We want to survive", it's pretty clear this line is bullshit.

Wouldn't really say TLF was part of our sphere in any real sense. It's kind of bizarre they signed UPN knowing UPN would likely end up in this type of war after the last war only to start shifting gears and treatying BoC. They're just cowards and seemingly naive. It's odd for such an old alliance why they don't see that this move is a backstab. Like Steve said, this type of behavior being acceptable is precisely why it's heading into an endgame stage. When so many alliances/people just want to win at any cost and it's encouraged, it will just lead to one side having the most alliances. The level of behavior acceptable here is just insane.

Typical. If someone brings up a legitimate complaint, 12 year old-style "u salty bro" in response. That's why the discourse here is trash.

It's a lot worse since tS was never countered at all and non-chaining would have applied. The UPN-TLF treaty was directly triggered.

lmao

I'm glad someone's being objective here. Here is what TLF said prior to this: they said they couldn't handle a war and wouldn't honor their MDoAP with UPN because of that. I guess they can handle a winning war when it's already decided.

Nope. This doesn't hold water argument wise. You literally just violated a treaty to bandwagon onto the other side. Your alliance is beyond shit.

You did the RoH. I was going to after we got some wars off.

I was going to say inb4 4chan poster-tier comment about "salty". There is no way to defend this.

Are you serious? lmao. This is beyond crappy. You ignore an MDP treaty that was directly activated with UPN and attack someone else on the side with no treaty link,. Like if you don't get shit for this, then no one has any standards. The other side accepting every bandwagoning piece of scum is telling. You are literally the Storm Division of this war.

It's not about being a solo alliance, but rather not having the tS web at your service. I wouldn't say it's a completely unequal relationship since you do your part by doing a lot of lifting on fronts, but it's clear who is more politically involved and able to recruit alliances to help.

Which would have been to tS sphere. Hope that helps. I don't remember anyone else hitting Rose.

I don't really get the point of being purposefully obtuse. This is kind of why people gave up on engaging you here. I mainly do it for entertainment purposes, but lol.

Mensa has been relatively isolated is the point. Without tS's ties, you would have been rolled several times, is what I'm saying.

I mean, this is more the issue: The ODP offer is complicated because if an alliance has a negative history with tS, they won't trust tS. tS would have to work on it beyond the people who are partial to them and convince them. It would be very difficult for a lot of people to like an alliance that they perceive has a history working against them or trying to dominate. That's why I also say it's bizarre for tS to be doing it while heading a sphere. When you head a sphere, you will get the flak for its actions. For instance, tS backed Mensa in 168 day War and organized a full coalition to beat up Rose and Mensa was pretty much enabled without consequences. How do you think people would feel about that? edit: Actually, I'll spell it out. It had been the second time tS had basically enabled Mensa in something and pushed it to victory and at that point, it very much became clear Mensa itself wasn't the issue, but it was tS since they were only successes because of tS.

The thing is, like we went over, the ODP is very hard to trust on face value. Maybe if it was on the caveat of the NAP clause not applying if there's a hit on an MDP partner, it would be less distrusted. It is your decision not to split off independently of other treaties or do something radically different. There were rumors about tS going paperless before and that would have shook things up a bit. I'm not accusing just tS of being hypocritical though I haven't seen a lot of push for change. Like I said, the way everyone perceived your ODP offers to VE/UPN as treaty chess and weakening our side. You knew they weren't 100% on participating coalition-wise and tried to dodge UPN in the war before. That makes it a lot more complicated for their allies not to get up in arms about an ODP. I am also saying it about your sphere as a whole, not just tS. It's a collective decision by your sphere.

I tried to explain this before in another topic, but we will never have that ability and we are aware of that fact. An alliance like TEst with its current size can wield far more power than we will ever be able to here. We never set out to be a hegemon here and it's not even feasible due to our late start. Granted, a lot of people including present allies/coalition partners used to have the worry we would just use them to shield ourselves, get big and then take over, but we've always been upfront that we don't have those kind of ambitions and wouldn't even be able to act on them if we did. War is too frequent for us to just simply get bigger than everyone else and the 6 months we had was an anomaly. What you're doing won't end up any differently, btw.

Yeah, that's what I've been trying to stress. I don't think anyone will do it for shits and giggles, tbh.

For there to be a political game when one side is absolutely dominant, there has to be drama for it to break up or else the game stagnates. It comes to down to hegemoney or survival of the political game. This was common complaint with (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) and I am fully self-aware and see that it comes off as hypocritical due to who I am, but the difference is the rhetoric has always been that PW is more dynamic, and I have accepted (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) being at an endgame stage and don't act differently.

That's entirely your decision. If there was genuine tension, someone would say, "hey I think I can work with Paracov alliances and become more influential over there than I am here" like you did with leaving Paragon and signing alliances who lost the VE war. In blocs in various games, usually someone does that. I'll admit the opening was there more for your allies than you yourself, though.

It was because Guardian likes to hit Rose in every war, basically and even though Guardian isn't as influential as it was in the past, they can still put a hurt on an alliance like Rose to due their tier concentration.

It wasn't a joke. I don't think you really get it. If an alliance's leadership says that and then their MoFA makes a call out topic, it's pretty clear the writing is on the wall. I get the timetable wasn't ideal for you, but expect people to take threats from aggressive alliances seriously.

Yeah, I didn't account for "get my big inactive ally rolled by TEst so Alpha can take a beating" option. You really got me. It's not about you as you were also told. Your allies were pretty frank about it. "Hope for a better peformance. I look forward to fighting you." the day of the split from a second in command.

There's your thing. They did realize that you'd have to be defeated for it to work unless your sphere also split up, because it's merely the reality. A third sphere when there is a dominant grouping and just another smaller sphere does nothing and is an easy target at a time of your choosing. They felt sufficiently threatened by your group to make common cause and it was the rational decision. Pretty sure it was explained to you how people were seeing it as a coin flip of which of NPO/TC or Rose/VE/SK to hit first to roll the other after. Not surprising it was an easy decision given how you were all so open about your intentions.

The 3rd sphere was real. To be frank, as we didn't get back together until like a week or so ago, it really hobbled us in terms of prep as the prior efforts to coordinate militarily were all wiped out by the split. The evidence is pretty clear with Alpha having to bulk up as until a week ago, we just expected to get steamrolled with no chance at conventional, so they were just going with full nuclear.