[Upper Tier Alliances]

1 minute ago, Kastor said:

TKR is trying so hard to not be seen as the upper tier juggernaut they are, and have been for awhile. 

Anyone with half a brain and some basic math can see the number of people we have in the alliance lol, no one is trying to "not be seen" as anything, merely disagreeing with the proposition based on history and context.

[Upper Tier Alliances]

2 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

I'd argue people have used it to apply to alliances with a high quantity of upper tier, but either way the term doesn't matter much. What matters is how many upper tier people you have vs how many others have, not the percentage of your alliance that exists in that tier. 

Putting alliances into boxes based on their tier is how people have used false descriptors to push various sorts of false arguments about tiering in the past. 

We're in agreement there

[Upper Tier Alliances]

I guess it would be a matter of definition, because although we have a sizeable amount of players in the 18+ range, traditionally "upper tier alliance" has been defined as an alliance that consisted of only players in that range, whereas we have a significant amount below that.

[Remove National Project Timer]

Removing city timers seem like it can be abused too much, and this suggestion is literally about project timers, so better than derail it more, agreed with the project timer remover (never understood its purpose in the first place)

[Upper Tier Alliances]

I would disagree with your assessment of listing TKR as an upper tier alliance, considering we recruit on a daily basis and a large chunk of our membership is significantly distanced from any range which could be reasonably labeled as the upper one.

[Decree From The Holy City of Oklo and His Holiness Pontifex Atomicus: DoE]

Proud to represent Atom in my alliance! Congratulations my friend  

o7 

 

[9th Circus of Appeals Actually Sides with Constitution]

Actually hella surprised 9th circuit ruled in favor of open carry considering how incredibly liberal it is heh

[We Know What Thalmor Did]

Fire. Straight fire. @Django Jane Gotta lot of blood and cold!

[Please to help me understand....]

15 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Kinda like what KT trolled Lordship into doing.

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=17559

>sold all his Navy

>got hit with 1 ship raids

>buys up to 200 Navy in response

>now losing his Navy again

>???

>profit

I was neither swarmed nor mauled, just had a very rough day at work/school so I didn’t check the game all day and they managed to do that. Went up to 100 iirc btw, not 200

[Let's Dance!]

29 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

So TKR isn't a threat supposedly?  Yet already mass messaging nations to leave TGH/KT/ET, in the first round.  First dismantling Nuke Bloc, now the bloc that's not tied to the treaty web.

Interesting perspective on "not being a threat".

We’re a threat to those who would see us and our allies harmed. Also, afaik only the people who were poached by war were messaged, (join ET or get rolled) so you’ll have to show me some evidence of the other ones. 

I’m also amused at your sudden love and outcry over the nukebloc war  some of them disbanded of their own accord, nothing to do with us other than the war. 

[Dancing Was a Metaphor, Guys]

19 minutes ago, WISD0MTREE said:

"We know what Thalmor did!" 

*inserts logs from Horsecock* 

I think the Thalmor thing was a joke lol

[Dancing Was a Metaphor, Guys]

47 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Didn’t you know @Hodor, every member of the Horde is a FA delegate of the Horde.  The community here decided so.

(I also didn’t read that wall of text fully.  Holy shit that’s bad.)

Regarding that first paragraph quoted on Lordship, there’s a HUGE difference between plotting BETRAYAL “as a hypothetical” to what your reasonings are here.

  

>Hit the first person who shit talked us

You mean like I did with Polaris?? 

Sure, betrayal is worse, we can agree on that. My point is that the "hypothetical" defense is not an acceptable one based on the fact that we fought a massive war over it already.

>with Polaris

Not saying that as a general rule we hit whoever shit talks us. I'm saying that you of all people know best what could happen if you spend your time shit-talking alliance since you hit Polar over it!

[Dancing Was a Metaphor, Guys]

Just now, Buorhann said:

>still paranoid

I'll take that as your surrendering of the point

[Dancing Was a Metaphor, Guys]

Just now, Buorhann said:

>The fact you’ve had talks at all

Huh, apparently we can’t talk about mapping out who’s who while hashing out details of a treaty.  I guess we’re guilty on that. 

This really does go into your paranoia. 

Nah you can, and I would expect you to of course, but don't turn around and say that you hadn't signed yet so we should discard it

[Dancing Was a Metaphor, Guys]

2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

>recent tensions with TKR

You mean between my FA and Smith (And Thrax)? 

Or the fact that Felkey called out my ally and I pointed out his own hypocrisy in doing so?

Or the constant OOC that members of TRF dragged members of mine into initially? 

Which are we referring to?  Lets track down the sources of each of those conflictions.

I never had tensions with TKR as an alliance.  I had issues with a few (mostly one) member. 

>Are you suggesting that TGH didn’t have FA talks with KT before signing?

We did, but nothing that involved TKR other than discussing the minispheres and who could be tied to who due to various past actions and logs (TKR defending CoS/Syndicate log drop from Kayser days, Guardian and GOB not having ties to TKR/tCW other than past EMC history, etc). 

2

Don't be coy, you know exactly what I am talking about. All of the shit talk on the OWF and discord from Rickky, Kastor, Justin, Akiri, to name a few. We have talked about this specific thing several times now.

I have been very vocal about OOC being terrible on both sides, and I have talked to both sides about this specific issue. Very consistent on this point. You guys have gone off the deep end, they have gone off the deep end as well, neither are in the right here because bringing OOC slurs and insults and when it seeps into IC things is terrible and we can all agree on that. 

Maybe that's true, maybe that's not, but the fact that you've had talks at all goes against your "this was before we signed" rhetoric. As you can see in this logs, KT have discussed extensively plans to isolate us from our allies with us being "obvious targets".

[Dancing Was a Metaphor, Guys]

15 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

1). That log you shared was a private DM that occurred before KT and TGH signed.  When I say there was no plot, there’s literally nothing plotted between our two alliances on TKR.

I’d also like to state that you clearly admitted on going by rumors too to us, and stated our plot was going to be the end of this month (Which neither you or Nizam provided that claim). 

2) We used Protectorates and ODP in the past.  The fact TKR had recently used “In defense of tCW” against Nuke Bloc as your justification (Were there plots that you were defending them from at that time?) shows that you’re fully mindful on using anything to justify your inclusion.

3) If you’re asking me for my opinion on Protectorates?  Then, uh, yes.  I hate Protectorate ties.  I’ve NEVER hid from that fact in my entire existence here. 

4) Really? 

Where? 

>Nizam: “We saw you shit talk IQ, where’s the CB?”

TGH wanted to avoid the overall IQ war, we only wanted Polaris and Friends.  I’ve made this abundantly clear to SEVERAL parties, including your own.

Also, let’s not forget “In defense of tCW” after they declared war on Nuke Bloc for shits and giggles. 

  

If you guys want to fight, we’re with that. 

1) It occurred a day before the treaty was posted on the OWF. Are you suggesting you had no FA conversations before the treaty went live?

Yeah, we heard rumors of a plot on us by the end of the month, and so we milled defensively at first.

2) We did use protectorates, and we did use ODPs in the past. That doesn't mean it happens every time, nor that an ODP is equivalent to an MDP at all. I personally still am of the opinion that ODPs aren't that useful, other than being glorified NAPs, because aggression is always optional, and this has been my stance for a long time. Yeah, TCW and Guardian went in on some of the nukebloc alliances, and when they were countered, our MDP treaty was activated so we hit in defense on TCW. No plots, we just honored our treaty (as you would yours would we have just hit KT). I wouldn't say using anything, and inclusion in conflicts is always circumstantial.

3) Nah I was pointing out that everyone has protectorates, so to say we're resembling EMC/Syndisphere by taking on protectorates is too vague, since we're also resembling every alliance that takes on protectorates

4) Everyone signs protectorates is my point, not sure why you're pushing this reformed EMC/syndisphere narrative when our only ally is TCW/protectorates 

Buorhann, I consider you among the best at this game's war mechanics, so at the very least it's an honor to be fighting against you for the first time in TKR history heh, en garde! 

[Dancing Was a Metaphor, Guys]

5 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

 

We actually had not discussed TKR other than pointing out the mini-spheres developing.  There's literally no plot on TKR once we had signed together, at all.  We had just gotten out of a war and were busy organizing ourselves.

You have 1 ally, that's tied to another ally, that's tied to another ally, that's tied into the treaty web.

Yes, you're right, we all know how that works.  We've used that to our advantages in the developing Syndisphere days, whether it was through using Protectorates to get their MDPs in, or just going through a frickyuge line of treaties to include certain alliances in.  Must I go through history to show this?

>Hardly reformed EMC/Syndisphere

You missed the point on that.  The point was the collection of alliances developing similar to how EMC/Syndisphere did.

2

We just shared logs of your ally's high gov man. "There's literally no plot on TKR" come on!

Tied via ODP, sure! Very much a stretch. So we have 1 treaty and that's equavalent to signing 6 interlocking treaties. huh?

So it's wrong to take on protectorates now? Huh? They're all small, and just because tS had TKR/BK and we ended up growing to be massive doesn't mean it happens every time that way. Some alliances like to remain elite and small. It is not an absolute. 

If signing protectorates is similar to how EMC/Syndisphere did, then every alliance in the top 10 is similar to EMC/Syndisphere

 

[Dancing Was a Metaphor, Guys]

7 minutes ago, Partisan said:

This really isn't as incriminating as you are making it out and defending it to be - every politically active alliance that exists talks about hypotheticals and future paths for their FA. 

Buorhann talking about Pantheon merge isn't even a secret opinion. You could probably find tons of people that have publicly said the very same thing especially when they lost their bank and nothing was known about it for weeks, that's absolutely embarrassing for an alliance of their size to have had happen to them. 

Additionally, using that screenie of Kastor is actually hilarious because he says like 90 percent of what he says just to troll people and get reactions. 

They didn't even say "let's roll TKR" or anything confirming it. Saying "who is even left to fight?" after the previous wars of you rolling nuke bloc and IQ vs KT/co. will obviously just lead to TKR as an answer, which is honestly not a viable answer for just about anyone in the game. You guys were 460k militarized, do you honestly think anyone has pockets or tiers deep enough to fight you without getting some of your hidden treaties to bail out on you? If we were going to hit you we would have militarized and since you seem to have so much inside information you would know that the day you hit us our standing orders were to be at 0-2-5-1. We weren't going to hit you, and it's obvious we weren't. 

I see two really likely situations for what will come in the next several months after this war. 

1. Certain Alliances will hug you, some because they like you, some out of fear. You will eventually just be surrounded by friends to a point that if people don't squad up with you they are alienated on the political spectrum. Then we will wait for a very long, long time until there is anything exciting again.

2. You have effectively managed to push three spheres that used to not collaborate with each other closer. After this war you really only have one alliance (that isn't recovering from a war) that isn't dick hugging you left, I guess we will wait to see if they suck up to you or become your next target. Karma's a !@#$. 

Claims were made that you wanted to shake things up and that's why the trigger was pulled on EMC from within. Really great job shaking things up to stay at the top, we all ate it up. Hook, line, and sinker. 

It's incredibly incriminating. The "brainstorming hypotheticals" line is bullshit because when Seeker pulled this exact excuse, we all made a mockery of him for that. If you're going to plot and scheme, and it gets out, don't be surprised when people show up at your door.

He talked about us being a bigger threat than IQ randomly, out of the blue, if Panth merged into TCW (and only a handful of them, since TCW has standards for who they do and don't take in.)

"You linked a screenshot of our deputy FA talking to another alliance leader and trying to justify rolling TKR, it's only a meme because he was joking!"

Did you read the screenshots? "Which tells you who our obvious target is" Come on dude. You knew we were coming for you over the last few days and intentionally stayed low so that it would be harder for us to hit you. As confirmed by Hodor and a couple of other members in Smith's thread. I also have information from other sources that confirm this as well heh.

It comes down to you guys plotting against us, and we responded. You also shit talk us constantly, and we responded. When you guys founded TGH, Buorhann told me you were gonna hit the first person who shit talked you. Why are you applying a double standard to us?

3 spheres? We're only hitting you and KT, (the only ones who we have screenshot of plotting against us) and the only ones who consistently shit talk us on the forums and in discord.  Should we have waited for you to have an opportune moment? lol

Uh, we're literally fighting KT, an alliance that has been in only one global war, and TGH, made up of ex-tkr and traditional allies in Buorhann, Sketchy, Justin, etc. How is this same old same old? Would you prefer we split into three alliances and wait for you to come at us?

[Dancing Was a Metaphor, Guys]

1 minute ago, Buorhann said:

Thank you for posting that.  I was honestly just expecting war for the sake of war.  Interesting to see a lot of public statements used, and a DM log between two individuals who spoke around before TGH/KT signed a treaty.

Yes, I am the leader of my alliance, where was the plot again from my standpoint? 

I'll still stand by my opinion on the matter that I was quoted on.  The developing TKRsphere (tCW having Pantheon merge into them, TKR being at 160+ members, and now TRF joining plus MAGE?), that's becoming a big threat similar to how players, including myself, have painted on Inquisition throughout since their formation.  Let alone the sphere still maintaining ex-EMC/Syndisphere ties, and now, being tied to the treaty web once again (EMC/Syndisphere 2.0 developing again, anyone?).

(Also lol @ using Kastor's log, but I'm assuming the "bonus" is in humor.  It did get Kastor excited.)

 

However, what I'm seeing is that the CB is:  "We hate TGH, and KT plotted against our interests."

Is this correct?  Not that it matters to me, personally.  TGH was formed with the understanding of having pixels burned, whether it's ours or any one on the receiving end of us.
 

I think the interesting thing I see here is that TKR is becoming the very thing that was not only stated in those logs (Being a threat, an active one at that - First Nuke Bloc while their allies were occupied, now this), but also becoming the very thing they disliked about Inquisition.  While I'm not opposed to any of that (The hit on NB was strategic, and actively warring isn't necessarily stagnation), it's just amusing to see develop.

My reference to you was from the screenshot Adrienne posted about you considering us a bigger threat, even though we're 2 alliances with a couple of small protectorates. That sort of rhetoric made me question your intentions, even though once Sketchy posted the numbers, we were still significantly smaller than the others lol

The DM was a day before, and in the log he specifically says that "this is the path we and TGH are going down" so I very much doubt you two hadn't discussed FA at any point before that, much less a single day.

TCW did get a couple of Panth members to join them, but they did not merge. TKR being at 160+ members is a result of our excellent IA staff that put in the work every day to improve our community. MAGE is a merger of a couple of micros and we took in Admech from their first day, so let's not pretend like it's a massive increase in NS. We are friendly with some of the ex-emc alliances, but that seems only natural considering our long history together. You mentioned being tied to the treaty web twice, as if it would help your argument by changing the wording slightly. tS is paperless, Mensa is gone, Rose is nowhere near us in the web and Guardian has an ODP with our allies ally.  Hardly reformed EMC/Syndisphere

I will give you credit for not replying with some bs about Horsecock not holding any weight or something like that, I respect you recognizing KT plotting against us here. Consider this, were we to hit KT, would you be sitting out if we showed the same evidence? I think not! But yes, no secret our two alliances don't get along, even if the two of us are good friends. I warned you about Rickky/Kastor and all the heat you were getting from it man. Finally reached the boiling point. 

If you actively plot against us and shit talk us at every opportunity (on the forums and in our discord channels) then your alliance is probably not too high on our friends list. Buorhann, please. We both know that's bullshit. We have 1 ally and a couple of micro protectorates. Our ally has one other ally. But now we're becoming IQ. Come on.

[Dancing Was a Metaphor, Guys]

Just now, Kastor said:

It’s a bunch of members, no gov members saying they want to hit TKR. Not solid CB, but oh well.

Thought you were a gov member

Thought Horsecock was high gov for KT

Thought Buorhann was the leader of your alliance lol

[An Orbis Chronicle: The Fall of Buorhann]

18 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Yes, some of us are well aware of it.

>they hate us

>Lordship bit the rumors too hard

>no actual plots

>just war stuff

It's all good.

>Your alliance has dedicated itself to talking as much shit as feasibly possible about us and allies since inception. Small wonder we wouldn't get along

>Little more than rumors weren't they

>it's only a plot if me, Buorhann, says it is!

>Just war stuff indeed.

"Our FA isn't really our FA, I'm our FA! and if you have a problem with our high gov who are involved in our decision-making process and are privy to high-level information, who also consistently engage in OOC bullshit on the OWF, just block him! It is your fault, not mine. Stop whining and !@#$ing! Why should I be responsible for what my high gov does and says? I don't gag my members!"

20 minutes ago, Thomas Meagher said:

So you wait until they've offed pretty much all treaty ties to attack? I'd expect shit talking tenfold now m8. 

>didn't hit them while they were fighting IQ

"TKR is just a bunch of IQ sympathizers, look at how they help IQ by very very far stretching proxy"

>hit them while they aren't fighting IQ

"TKR are a bunch of weaklings who hit us after we've decided to stick to KT/TGH as a unit!"

[An Orbis Chronicle: The Fall of Buorhann]

1 hour ago, Buorhann said:

Upvoting his post in solidarity?  I see one.  Do you need me to hold your hand from anyone who offends you with poorly thought insults, @Smith?

 

Just report him.

While you guys are trying hard to spin things or getting your feelings twisted over poor insults, I have a war to strategize over and plan ahead.  You’re big boys and girls, use the mods.  They’re here for a reason.

In the spirit of continuing to hold you accountable, allow me to point out one of this big reasons for this war: You guys talking endless amounts of shit about us. See, literally, everything Rickky has posted over the last month.

 

[Let's Dance!]

18 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

You mean the wars on Arrgh?  That's the only thing I can think of.  Unless you're willing to admit that adding into the Nuke Bloc war since you saw that Rose wasn't baited, was indeed an "offensive" move despite the "Defending tCW" remark. 

Do feel free to share those logs though.  This will get interesting real fast. 

1

Things are already very interesting! And this would be the 10th war in our history, several defensive ones in between those. Re: nukebloc, our defensive clause in the MD treaty was activated, but our side was the offensive one, yes.

[Let's Dance!]

2 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Oh, damn.  Here I thought there were some "super legit" logs of plots or something.  Hell, in that case, welcome aboard on finally acknowledging that TKR does offensive wars and not defensive ones.

All in due time! We have done offensive and defensive, you know this

[Let's Dance!]

1 minute ago, Insert Name Here said:

 

It was. KT and friends were barely militarized, especially when compared to TKR. It would most certainly be feasible but it wouldn't have been easy. Doesn't matter tho, y'all enjoy yourselves.

We would have been swarmed, it wasn't feasible lmao