Cherise

It was the way it turned out. To highlight, GOONS actually had a competitive factor with NPO. GOONS mandate was to abuse pubbies, i.e, get into a position of hegemony. NPO had a mandate to achieve dominance. GOONS being so eristic helped out because when GOONS eventually stabbed NPO, they'd be hated as all hell and a huge FA liability to anyone working with them. Of course, during the stage of the war, NPO needed all the fighting assistance it could get and without GOONS it would have been difficult to have suppression (and an eventual overrun) of Immortals.

Mercyboarding was fairly standard with CN GOONS. I don't really see the harm in it; but then again, GOONS in PnW was configured to be the TRUE VILLAIN in IQ and actually make NPO etc look good by comparison.

Update: as of right now, there are no members outside of VM in Corporate Union. Everyone has either hit VM, left the alliance, or been kicked / applicanted by the former CU government member TheSinner / Covenant.

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=136681 Full set-up is about a third of Corporate Union's bank value. Timing suggests he just banked it and went into VM. Raiders are currently working on CU, and I'm currently otherwise solo-ing their alliance, so they're at war.

Jeez, I'd better go finish the third draft of my memo instead of working on fiction about where the protagonist character sprays yellow Not-COVID on everyone from an airplane. But as I mentioned in Discord, the point of interest is the overlap. Some of the points Hidude made were made by others (impression of HW logistics running out), others were made by myself (utter incompetence in running updeclares). Where I tend to disagree was whether or not Oblivion and others overextended, and it was reported that Rose and others suicided planes. In fact, I made the opposite criticism that some Rose suicides didn't have to be suicides but were suicides because Rose etc overextended. === Having an official view of the war from HW's side, likewise, also emphasized some of the limitations of HW C4I. Obviously, while I'm aware of some of HW's mistakes in prosecuting this war (my general judgment was that HW was more adaptive to changing combat conditions than Rose coalition), I wasn't aware of others.

Hidude has a cat pfp. Block Inst but not Hidude!

I'm glad to have made it worse for the likes of you.

Like I said, all you had to do was to move to Fark, and when Farksphere entered the war alongside Pantheon, all you had to do was to move to Pantheon. I know quite a few players who defected from KERCHTOG$++ and joined Pantheon, as well as Farksphere. But hey, I'll stay and die in my alliance, no? Put another way, KERCHTOG$++ members refusing to desert / delete prolonged the war. If you had run off to a dozen different alliances that peaced out, we might have seen an end in December.

Took 2.5x the real damage of Hedge. Continued warfare from Hedge would have likely broken Delta's control tier, especially since, as we saw in the following war, downdecs are fairly broken. Alyster also referenced Roquentin specifically. If you consider the Toxx that was flying around that war, as well as Rapmanej (technically, it was done by CoS, but with TKR etc coalition spreading it around) recycling ancient voice calls out of context, as well as both Roq and myself having TKR logs deleted, it was a toxic battle for survival for both sides. === I'll also point out, there was an attempt to remove the members of KERCHTOG$++, but not an attempt to remove them from the game. In fact, quite a few members left for Pantheonsphere and Farksphere at the end of the war. Strategically, there was no need to remove members from the game, simply from the KERHCTOG$++ orbat. Even when Fark and Pantheon, infiltrated by KERCHTOG$++ members, joined the war on KERCHTOG$++'s side, Pantheonsphere was allowed to peace out. And frankly, your CB vs BK / TCW was shit. I'd swear that Sphinx, the proclaimed master of leaks, deliberately leaked it. We also knew about his perfidy for months. We also had advance warning of your planned war vs IQ. But hey, what do I care. Declaring war on KERCHTOG$++ and OD remnants is basically the Arrgh pledge. I used to be a relatively efficient raider, although not appreciating my current combat tier, but now I'm a dedicated suicide nuker. Politics all you want, perhaps we'll meet again on the battlefield or the roguing field.

But hey, revisionism. And while I don't like Delta / BroFam, I'll also note that the person trying to play morally superior in the above post also beat up the weakest single sphere in the game, while taking a general "Melian Dialogue" approach to it.

Let's see, TKR dragging up voice calls from now almost a decade back, calling for castration of alliance leaders, etc... I'd say you should toxx it up, but you already did. Hail Oblivion!

Sorry for the low effort posting, but I'm trying to fall asleep and this low-alcohol fermented rice wine isn't working.

Just kidding. JE NE REGRETTE RIEN. I REDECLARE WAR ON ALL OF KERCHTOG$++ AND ALL OPUS DEI TRAITORS.

IDGI. It's not like I don't eat bird seed for breakfast every few days, with some seaweed mixed in to counter the goitrogenic elements in bird seed. I also eat once in a while certified organic and animal byproduct-free catfood, because I'd prefer my cats not eat anything I wouldn't eat myself.

Three issues: First, you're asking to remove the feeling of progress that should come with the game. Players that come in, see that Wampus has City 57, are more likely to quit if they feel that it's impossible to get to City 57. In some older games, the default admonition is "this is a game of patience", which promptly gets players to leave. Even though it's illusory, the prospect of being able to go from City 1 to City 10 on day one (this is viable if we ignore infrastructure and improvement costs with a 10 credit purchase) helps new players feel that competing with Wampus is viable, even if, once you consider the full value of Wampus, this is in fact impossible. Second, it's a time-honored tradition in Freemium games to allow players to skip an early-game "grind" by paying for it. Those with the nous and the resources can skip through C3 to C10 by paying Alex money for the credits. You'd actually be surprised at how many "new" players end up buying credits, so it'd be an infringement on Yellowstone Digital Media's profits. Third, while TKR, like many alliances, prefers to put its members through raider training (and I've traditionally been an advocate of such) before boosting them (if it ever buys them cities), this is not the only way to do so. Alliances should retain the option of buying their members 7-8 cities on the first day as a recruitment aid. If it doesn't work, well, it's the alliance's loss. Moreover, if you're familiar with the raider ecosystem, the raider ecosystem is a predator - prey system that relies on a balanced distribution of raiders and inactive prey (many raiders do not prefer to hit defended targets, and even raiders that do do prefer inactives and undefended targets to raid when they're slot-filled). The raider ecosystem is currently overloaded with raiders. Before I left the game, raiding from the 9 city tier gave plenty of inactives. When I came back, only the C4-5 tier had enough inactives to raid at full capacity with Pirate Economy.

If we're discussing planes vs tanks, I think what everyone can agree upon is that tanks are the preferred downdeclare tool when otherwise viable. Tanks deal about 8% (around 7% damage to tanks, 9% damage to soldiers) per attack. When ground control is obtained, they deal about 8.37% damage to aircraft per tank per city. The functional dispute, however, is whether tanks are viable against planes in an updeclare scenario. This was a contested issue that was never fully trialed. In simulations, because air superiority was near guaranteed for the updeclarer in a standard updec scenario, tanks generally weren't dealing enough damage and had difficulty obtaining ground control. With rebuys, often the tank attacker took up to two days before the defender lost enough tanks that ground control was viable. In actual practice, an Aurora task force erroneously engaged a Hedgemoney nation on the ground. This task force actually failed to break through, although other factors were extant (counters, some guy opening up with a naval). In other words, for downdecs, ground attacks with full tanks was the preferred strategy. However, for updecs, the evidence suggested, but not proved, that plane updecs were more effective than tank updecs. === You ultimately have to remember WHY plane strat was a thing in the first place. As it turns out, target aircraft / dogfight airstrikes are broken. Even with highly inferior forces, you're still dealing a ridiculous level of damage to air in a dogfight airstrike. This is why Mensa adopted plane strat in the first place, then IQ either copied or had Mensa defectors train them in such in the technique. This is why plane strat in the updeclare is still much preferred (unless you have a reasonable chance of getting ground control or keeping the opponent's air superiority foiled). As for slot filling, Rose coalition suffered greatly from slot fills. Likewise, complaining about the Rose coalition using a hybrid strategy of max mil / max planes (even if the strategy was poorly implemented) shows a general ignorance of how tier warfare is supposed to work. Re a 3:1 ratio, in the pre-tanks era, 2:1 was often capable of producing a successful updec at normal ranges. In the modern era, with weakened score compression and the tank / plane asymmetry, 3:1 was effectively necessary. Some tactics were capable of reducing the load of 3:1 in order to obtain successful updeclares, but these tactics aren't viable in "pure" updeclares where all your assets are below and all the targets are above. === @James Ironwood Akuryo is known to be highly aggressive and !@#$y. Officially, he was removed from CoTL government as part of the fallout from the !@#$ accusations vs T$, but I'd imagine the Inst-level FA attitude (although I don't prefer shitting on people randomly) contributed to the removal. One needn't take Akuryo too seriously, but in combination with an alliance trolling together, Akuryo's more of a problem. @Micchan DB impressed me slightly by not ditching and continuously attacking. It was more disappointing when their boys came in to slot fill. Then again, I held DB in a lower estimation to begin with than you did. What WTF did to impress you should be quite obvious, since WTF actually fought aggressively all war, although I was quite irritated at their slot fills. Rose and Weebunism, in contrast, are greater questions as to what they did to impress you. Rose was actually disappointing to me, the Rose - KT war was fairly good when it came to coordination (the blitz was excellent, and seemingly caught KT off guard, despite KT claims otherwise), but the war response this time around was significantly worse. Regarding Weebunism, I wasn't paying much attention.

26 was never held by Rose throughout the entire war. During the initial stages of the war, ranges from 25-32 were contested by Oasis and Minc, but the contested level fell to around 21-24 by the end of the war. Hollywood was firing into C14s with coherent assault groups by the very end, and I considered even C18s downdec bait by the time it was over. === In reality, the progress of the war was mostly that Hollywood seized the upper tier decisively, especially since Oasis couldn't rescue Rose's whale tier. Hollywood then began downdeclaring from secured tiers and constantly pushed the envelope down. I'd also say that the chart provided is somewhat suspect, given that other charts provided by your coalition show much less of a numerical advantage for the Rose coalition. Edit: This was a chart shown by one of your coalition milcom in RON. This shows that the numerical advantage was much less than what your chart indicated, and moreover, given the 3:1 ratio needed to updeclare, the Rose coalition only had a hard stopping point around the C13-14 point.

@Memph On RON: Oblivion Line (C28, 9 Oblivion Nations + 3 Guardian) > Guardian Expeditionary Force (sub c20s) > Dacta Line (C24-25) for quality of engagement. Oblivion Line is rated above Guardian Expeditionary Force because your opposing coalition could at least wound Guardian Expeditionary Force (in part because it was so deep), and it often took more than one turn for GEF to launch counters. For the sensitivities of Rose Coalition, I won't rank them because they were generally a mess. I put a shout-out for SoS for aggressive declares (including updecs) and for TFP for experimenting with (successful) updecs within their control tier.

List of reasons why I am stuck in this game: -Epi fricking couped Pantheon. -Akuryo is pissed off that I'm hanging around. Merci beaucoup! Anyways, enjoy your parting shots.

Roasted.

Bragging about lack of beige discipline when much of your coalition beige cycled. Check. <Aky3 === Oh, and I just checked again, SoS had positive war stats. Also, generally, the progress of the war was Rose coalition being unable to conduct a coherent and effective updec strategy, while Hollywood was able to effectively downdec (at 60-80% efficiency, increasing over time) throughout the war. Downdecs are definitely extremely powerful right now (some fighters reported that they lost 50% or more of their total mil within 3 turns of being decced on, or 4 turns 9 MAP), but we're as yet uncertain as to whether the downdec / updec balance is categorically broken due to Rose coalition's poor updec capability. === Out of this thread for now ,otherwise a rather amiable conversation.

You're talking about wars declared per tier as a retort to downdec abuse accusations. I'm pointing out that your data points are flawed because the guys down low could beige at will, all the while targeting soft targets, while downdeccers were usually countering and beige holding.

I mean in comparative combat performance I was most impressed by Ockey taking a bunch of his Guardian friends alongside his own alliance down to downdeclare from the C28 point. The Oblivion line wasn't even a hard shell to crack because it swept away Rose coalition assets like crazy, so that attempting to break that line, beyond a few abortive attempts, was impossible. I had estimated it'd have taken 27-42 nations to shut down the Oblivion line, but no one had the assets available fast enough. As for the best performances in the Rose coalition, SoS, beyond being a raider protectorate, was impressive based on the sheer aggression and tenacity of its attack. I'm surprised that SoS never broke positive war stats, because SoS honestly deserved it. TFP, likewise, actually learned how to updeclare, but most of it came from experiments being run in their control tier. That said, the Dacta line (C24-25)was significantly less impressive, although toward the end of the war it ramped up its aggression.

Never change, Aky. Half the point of the post was that Rose coalition had the lower tier of Hollywood submerged; hell, I think in E404, excepting the top 20 people, everyone was trapped in Rose coalition's lower tier. The point being made is that Hollywood's lower tier asserts were significantly more vulnerable to desertion than Rose etc's upper tier. That meant that Hollywood had difficulty recruiting new members and retaining them, while Rose etc could constantly pick up new C3s, and if Hollywood's insurgents down low attacked them, the insurgents could be dogpiled and converted into combat training.

The war basically turned into Trial of Tiers, except that downdecs were more powerful and updecs less so. As for suing for peace, I think the Rose coalition didn't want to deal with having their upper tier indefinitely submerged, all the while facing inevitable negative war stats (updecs are far less likely to deal positive damage than downdecs). I think Hollywood, on the other hand, was wondering about the NAP expiration re: ex-Swamp as well as the threat warning signals they were broadcasting uncontrollably due to their rout of a force ostensibly 2-3 times their size (Hint: tiering matters, as does tactics). Hollywood also had a myriad of less devoted fighters than various insurgents operating down south who were getting wrecked; if you compare Rose to TKR, the former certainly lost less members.