Life In Prison

[Grillick]

I can't stand moral absolutists.

This statement appears to be a non-sequitur. I haven't seen anything from those of you who support the death penalty that reflects a nuanced interpretation of morality.

 

While it may be true that I have an absolutist stance when it comes to killing people, my opposition to the death penalty does not require that. Even if I thought it was justifiable to kill in self-defense, or in defense of others, or during war, it would not be inconsistent with that belief to say that killing a defenseless person who has already been subdued and incarcerated is unacceptable.

 

There's plenty of room for grey-area morality while still opposing the death penalty.

[RedArmy BushMan]

This statement appears to be a non-sequitur. I haven't seen anything from those of you who support the death penalty that reflects a nuanced interpretation of morality.

 

While it may be true that I have an absolutist stance when it comes to killing people, my opposition to the death penalty does not require that. Even if I thought it was justifiable to kill in self-defense, or in defense of others, or during war, it would not be inconsistent with that belief to say that killing a defenseless person who has already been subdued and incarcerated is unacceptable.

 

There's plenty of room for grey-area morality while still opposing the death penalty.

Wait wait wait you think it is wrong to kill in self defense?

[WISD0MTREE]

Not going to lie. I assumed you did.

Same.

 

What does California have to do with any of this? You don't think I hail from that dump, do you?

So people use Texas's murder rate and the fact that we execute people in arguments. That is invalid because Texas has a direct land boarder with a country that is almost COMPLETELY overrun with criminals. The US government hasn't done ____ about the situation since Bush, so the cartels have a free walk right into the cities where they fight. Now this is different from some states in the center of America that don't execute. 

Also, saying people think that the death penalty doesn't do anything isn't proof. This site does, and most people point me to that site.  

 

Criminologists report that the death penalty does not deter murder

A recent study published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology reported that 88% of the country’s top criminologists surveyed do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent to homicide.  Eighty-seven percent of them think that the abolition of the death penalty would not have a significant effect on murder rates and 77% believe that “debates about the death penalty distract Congress and state legislatures from focusing on real solutions to crime problems.†(M. Radelet and T. Lacock, DO EXECUTIONS LOWER HOMICIDE RATES?: THE VIEWS OF LEADING CRIMINOLOGISTS, 99 Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 489 (2009))

 

 

Also, it is cheaper, or would be if you guys didn't whine about it. 

 

To sum it up (for this post), the death penalty will reduce this and most arguments against it are invalid. I will post my 3 to 5 page essay on here once I am done with it.

[dr8gons]

In general, I feel that the justice system should be more like that spoken of in the Robert Heinlein science fiction novel "Starship Trooper." In this book, it touches upon how there are much more severe, and quick punishments, than the long, drawn out trivial and weak punishments of today. In the book, for doing a minor crime, people would not be imprisoned, but rather receive some sort of punishment. Be it embarrassment, one of the most powerful tools in our arsenal, or pain, which it is argued in the book as the most powerful crime deterrent, that we are somehow object to using, and that somehow making someone live in a prison, is better and more efficient. I think that if our country adopted systems like flogging and the stockades, as well as death penalty for rape and murder, and imprisonment only for those who are an unintentional threat to themselves and society, the country would have less crimes, because of the level of punishment as a deterrent, as well as less people in prison, who might as well be committing a count of robbery for every year they are in prison, because of the sheer cost it has on our society. Think about it, a swift and effective punishment, or a long, expensive, and ineffective punishment. And for those who would argue about the feelings and emotions of the criminals who received these punishments, I would argue that that is exactly what we need. If our punishments don't make us cringe when we think of them, then they are not effective enough. It takes that fear of punishment to deter and stop crimes. Criminals don't fear prison all that much, but everyone fears pain. Take advantage of that fact!

[WISD0MTREE]

dr8gons, 

That won't happen in America. We have a Constitution... And democrats. 

 

Anyways, my paper is due soon on this. Basically what I found were:

 

 

Criminologists report that the death penalty does not deter murder

A recent study published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology reported that 88% of the country’s top criminologists surveyed do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent to homicide.  Eighty-seven percent of them think that the abolition of the death penalty would not have a significant effect on murder rates and 77% believe that “debates about the death penalty distract Congress and state legislatures from focusing on real solutions to crime problems.†(M. Radelet and T. Lacock, DO EXECUTIONS LOWER HOMICIDE RATES?: THE VIEWS OF LEADING CRIMINOLOGISTS, 99 Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 489 (2009))

And it costs more. 

 

-----

 

It is cheaper, or would be if you guys didn't whine about it. Also, some economist girl with a PhD who helped in multiple studies is against the DP, even though she found that it does deter murders. The death penalty is not racist, either. 

 

>inb4 failed paper

[Grillick]

Seriously, WISD0MTREE, I know you're young, but I thought you had more sense than that. You site testimony delivered to Congress by a partisan research group that only investigated the federal justice system to demonstrate that the death penalty is not racist? There are only 37 prisoners on death row in the federal system. There are over 3000 people on death row nationwide.

 

Also, you can't just look at the race of the convicted murderer. You also need to look at the race of the victims.

[WISD0MTREE]

Seriously, WISD0MTREE, I know you're young, but I thought you had more sense than that. You site testimony delivered to Congress by a partisan research group that only investigated the federal justice system to demonstrate that the death penalty is not racist? There are only 37 prisoners on death row in the federal system. There are over 3000 people on death row nationwide.

 

Also, you can't just look at the race of the convicted murderer. You also need to look at the race of the victims.

And look at the race of the murder that gets deterred. 

EDIT Mk II: 

 

 

executions deter the murder of whites and African-Americans. Each execution prevents the murder of one white person, 1.5 African-Americans, and 0.5 persons of other races.