Dubayoo
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Posts posted by Dubayoo
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1 minute ago, durmij said:
So if I write the paper and don't pay to join the order, I can have resources?
If you find someone else who joins the order and someone agrees to have you help write the paper, you can split it with someone as you two see fit.
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1 minute ago, durmij said:
The end result is still the same, you get IRL money for a purpose you want, they get in game resources.
People get in game resources if they write a paper which has no real life purpose. RL money is transacted for joining the order one way or another. It's the process, not the result, that counts.
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2 hours ago, Hodor said:
I was raised Catholic and know much about KoC, you seem to have just written my submission off as purely a joke, but some investigation would show I am promoting a group that expects character without prerequisite such as being a Christian Male.
See below:
From the website I posted:
TENETS
THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS.
- One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
- The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
- One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
- The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
- Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
- People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and remediate any harm that may have been caused.
- Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
ABOUT US
The mission of The Satanic Temple is to encourage benevolence and empathy among all people, reject tyrannical authority, advocate practical common sense and justice, and be directed by the human conscience to undertake noble pursuits guided by the individual will. Politically aware, Civic-minded Satanists and allies in The Satanic Temple have publicly opposed The Westboro Baptist Church, advocated on behalf of children in public school to abolish corporal punishment, applied for equal representation where religious monuments are placed on public property, provided religious exemption and legal protection against laws that unscientifically restrict women's reproductive autonomy, exposed fraudulent harmful pseudo-scientific practitioners and claims in mental health care, and applied to hold clubs along side other religious after school clubs in schools besieged by proselytizing organizations.
Those tenets don't expect character.
Compassion and empathy are about making people comfortable instead of supporting long-term well-being, and synthesizing that with reason yields practicality, not principle. Practicality is subjective, so all you have there is an arbitrary opinion.
The struggle for justice forsakes victims after fair rulings. Laws and institutions are only bad when they're corrupt. We shouldn't throw them out altogether.
Inviolable bodies seems right on the surface, but that tolerates apathy both in industrial laziness as well as civic responsibility negligence.
The freedom to offend is a contradiction. Offense violates freedom. That's why we expect good manners in society.
Scientific beliefs treat human nature as if it's predetermined whereas character requires free will, and this is something Catholics debate against other Protestant Christians as well when it comes to the treatment of callings, grace, and good works.
Yes, people are fallible, but part of responsible living includes not taking on responsibilities beyond your capability. Merely doing your best isn't always enough.
While guiding principles are nice in putting spirit first, that's a very vague claim that requires clarification. Hence, we have dogmas to clarify it that have gone through the scholastic process of dialectic consensus construction.
Authority is not automatically bad. It can be, but only if it plays favorites on a passive-aggressive basis which is why authority must not be based on empathy.
Practical common sense is again subjective. That puts pluralism before universalism.
The individual will is the foundation of a good society, but it's only the foundation. We must also have a fraternal spirit of cooperative teamwork that is not materially grounded in order to appreciate the many-to-many connections between cause and effect rather than simply learning from experience about previous connections and extrapolating them.
Corporal punishment is not automatically bad. People who behave disrespectfully and learn from experience about facts and relate with what they feel must be physically hit in order to learn from experience a fact which feels badly that they don't relate with. If they're not, then they learn from experience that they can get away with disrespecting others.
Equal representation of religious monuments is not always justified as in the case of mockeries that don't truly represent the spirit of faith as well as in the case of pagans which by their mere display automatically oppress fellow cultures. Catholic monuments are not culturally biased due to their intrinsically universal nature which is not biased towards a specific form of grace.
"Women's reproductive autonomy" is just a guise for being pro-choice. Pro-choice positions must be opposed just like how society uses police against hostage takers. Hostages do not deserve to be killed just because they don't behave functionally in the opinion of their takers. It is also nobody's obligation to prove their functionality to others before being treated with respect. That's no different from slavery.
On the side, 10 times more abortions have been had than Jews killed in the Holocaust. Nazis were once thought to be the epitome of evil, but the pro-choice movement has vastly outperformed them. Calling its advocates "Feminazis" is an understatement for how evil they are.
Mental health care is highly problematic due to its practical and empirical focus. It has no consideration for how victims of abuse are defined from violations of principle. Instead of identifying abusers and punishing them accordingly, it simply focuses on treating the victim which misdiagnoses mental problems when people are really just abused by others with attitude problems. It also ignores how abuse is often not recorded, expecting victims to pretend they were never abused and driving them mad in the process behind the threat of being accused of delusions simply due to a lack of evidence.
In sum, your other organization has no idea what it's talking about when it comes to character.
23 minutes ago, durmij said:Hey @Olive Penderghast and@Honey Monster quick question. Does this break the rules on exchanging real life currency for in game items? While OP isn't getting money, an institution of his choosing is. Seems like a yes to me, but there is some nuance here.
Not quite.
Joining the order itself is an exchange of your dues for the order's services.
I'm only requesting people join the order to qualify for the giveaway.
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11 hours ago, Gabranth said:
Unfortunately, the KofC doesn't have a chapter in my nation. Can the offer be extended to any member of the International Alliance of Catholic Knights? or is the offer exclusive to the KofC?
Yea, sure. Just prove to me you're a member of the corresponding order and you can qualify.
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8 minutes ago, rey said:
i have to imagine that's why there's prize money involved
If the prize was purely to join the order, yes, but it's not.
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32 minutes ago, Chief Savage Man said:
i will offer 10 million pnw to whoever has a gay affair with the head of a koc lodge or whatever they're called
No go.
If you're scandalous, you get kicked out.
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7 minutes ago, durmij said:
So pagans are allowed to be pagans as long as they don't organize in any way that would threaten the power of the mortal men in charge of the Catholic faith? This is some "you can be Catholic and gay, just never have any sexual experience ever" nonsense.
Pretty sure most missionaries around the world were successful because of the vast sums of Catholic fortune financing that went into their missions. That and the centuries of advantage stuff like the Inquisition gave them.
It's also readily apparent that the sect you are linking to is taking the piss from the uptight practitioners of the world. Having gone to a Catholic school, this isn't much preachier once you scrape the sarcasm off.
Merely having resources doesn't mean you'll succeed with them. You need to use resources the right way to succeed. Lots of missionaries aren't given extensive stipends either both for security reasons (especially in the past when money couldn't be wired and had to be physically carried) and because missionaries are sort of like outcasts. They depend on fundraising to get their work done which is helpful, but not lucrative.
That's part of why I'm looking for papers to be written here as well as for people to join the order. I don't want to throw money at just anyone to leave an impression. It has to be given to people with convictions who actually care to make something of it.As for pagans, the point of the Catholic Church is to tolerate many ways of life. Catholic literally means "universal" in Greek. It's not a nationalist faith, and if anything, the rise of nationalism happened from the Protestant Reformation. If some pagans become too powerful, then other ways of life will be implicitly persecuted. If anything, Catholics have often been accused of being internationalists who seek to undermine sovereignty.
Is it apparently sarcastic? No, I'd say it's half-sarcastic in being passive-aggressive. It's nasty when it wants to be and nice when it doesn't. If anything, that sort of prejudice is even worse.
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47 minutes ago, durmij said:
I know this is kind of a joke, but for real, Satanists are probably, on the balance the nicest most understanding religious denomination I've ever dealt with, followed closely by Pagans. If you're looking for a religious community but don't feel you fit in anywhere else, they're probably worth a shot.
And I say this as an ardent atheist, who would only rank his fellows number 4 on that hypothetical list.
A lot of people don't know this, but Catholics are supposed to tolerate pagans as written in the Councils of Paderborn and Frankfurt as well as discussed in the Valladolid Debate. As long as they're not like Druids who engage in cannibalism, torture, or sacrifice, they're supposed to be treated as practitioners of grace so long as they don't try to establish another Church.
This is why missionaries around the world have been so successful. They recognize pagan faiths as just another form of culture to be adapted and refined.
As for Satanists, I don't know about that sect, but this sect defines the word as a guise for atheism, and its standards aren't exactly nice or understanding: https://www.churchofsatan.com/nine-satanic-statements.php2 minutes ago, Kaladin Stormblessed said:Edited original comment for clarity ?
There's a difference between confidence and arrogance. The sin of vanity comes from excessive pride, not simply being proud of your convictions.
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8 minutes ago, Kaladin Stormblessed said:
I feel like there's a lot of missing humility and respect here, my friend.
Yea, I do wonder if PnW lacks humility a lot.
It's important to have fortitude despite that. People will accuse you of vanity when you're not actually vain to accommodate for their own.
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2 hours ago, Hodor said:
I have very mixed feelings about this... until I formulate a proper response I'll offer 5mil to anyone who joins the Satanic Temple and posts proof:
I guess that's the difference between us.
I offer something not just for membership, but also a demonstration of character. Quality comes before quantity. You can join the KofC but still get nothing if you don't write an applicable paper.1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:I believe the words I am looking for are... Are you kidding me? Just leave.
lol
Envy is a sin. You should learn to control it instead of trying to control those you envy.
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For those who don't know, I'm going to be leaving after this summer (or at least go into very long vacation mode in case I want to come back in the distant future).
In turn, I'm going to be giving away $1 billion in-game in a giveaway event. This will happen in the beginning of October once I've gathered up the prize money. My country makes about $6.5m everyday according to the in-game revenue calculator, but my own spreadsheet says it's more due to the spread between buying and selling resources beyond average prices, so I know I'll be able to afford this by then.
To qualify for the giveaway, however, you have to do something in real life. Note that I'm not specifically benefiting from this. This isn't a sale of resources where we're transacting in-game assets for real life assets. This is a charity event where you get involved with a good cause that can help you.
You have to join the actual Knights of Columbus.
For those who don't know, the KofC has designed an online e-membership program very deliberately to engage younger people to join as well. This is a recent development which has been tested over the past year, and is just now being implemented.
Obviously, everyone can't join since the KofC isn't open to everyone. If you can't, then nothing can be done. At best, you can sponsor someone else who wants to qualify and split the prize money as you see fit.
If you live in America, you're 18 or older, you're male, and you're a Catholic, you can go here to join: https://www.kofc.org/apps/newjoin/en/registration/index.html
Feel free to peruse the main page as well to find out what they're about before considering anything. To be clear, it costs $30 per year to be a member online, or $60 per year in real life once you're assigned to a council with a parish.
To be clear, no, this again isn't a transaction. When you're actually a member, you get all the benefits of being one in the order. The prize money is just a further incentive to join.
Once you've joined, I'll expect you to send me a picture of your membership card that includes your ID number. I don't need your real life name, address, or any other personal information. I just need to know you're an actual member. You can block out the other parts of the membership ID while verifying your in-game name.
After you've qualified, the giveaway is going to have a paper contest involved where everyone who joined the order will be expected to write what's usually expected for scholarship applicants among participating councils with scholarship programs to nearby high schools. The paper will have to answer three questions:
1) What are fraternal benefit societies about, and what was the Golden Age of Fraternalism?
2) What are the Knights of Columbus about, and what does it do?
3) Who is Father Michael McGivney, and why did he want to help people?
I will judge the papers based on how comprehensive, elaborate, and enthusiastic they are. The more areas of interest, details, and personal consideration involved, the more highly they will rank. If multiple papers are comparable, I'll put them up on the forum for people to vote on.
People will also be allowed to resubmit papers in case they want to revise previous submissions. When a paper is submitted, I will announce how many pages and words it contains so people have a feel for their competition. My expectation, though, is the papers should be 3-5 pages long.
To be clear, I'm not a stickler for grammar. If you mess up here and there, it's OK. However, I like refined vocabulary that expresses the exact message you want to get across.
The prizes will be distributed as follows:
If five or more people qualify, $500m, $250m, $150m, and two $50m prizes will be given away.
If four people qualify, $500m, $250m, $150m, and $100m will be given away.
If three people qualify, $500m, $300m, and $200m will be given away.
If two people qualify, $600m and $400m will be given away.
If one person qualifies, $1b will be given away.
For those doing the math over credit purchases and comparable paper writing services, the average cash prize of $200m in case five or more qualify is worth more than the real life cost of joining the order by far for a year. If you're considering joining the order, but don't know if it's worth it, then this should easily afford your incentive. You don't need to stay with the order either if you don't like it. Just try it out for a year, and see if it's worth your commitment. We believe in charity, unity, fraternity, and patriotism, so those are some of the themes you can expect if you do get involved.
Other than that, I really have nothing more to say, but if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
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13 hours ago, durmij said:
- So are you attacking OOC beliefs or 100% taxes ingame? Because I know several capitalists in favour of 100% taxes in game and we, the Red Menace, run low taxes, loan circles and protectionism.
- I only need one example to undercut your extraordinary unfounded claim. You stated that socialists always band together, I found a prime example of them doing the opposite.
- You were the one who claimed OOC politics would stagnant in game politics. It doesn't invalidate my example, it literally is my example.
- How? You keep adding qualifiers for socialism in game, some of them are contradictory. CF had 100% taxes and 100% bank access. If we're talking mechanics, they are literally peak "communism."
- Restricting our samples to viable alliances that actually participate in the meta game (or real game as some prefer) of FA is not cherry picking. And it's not cherry picking when to pay attention to micros if I say "never pay attention to micros" because that statement excludes micros always, not when convenient. Defining our field of view as only including the relevant is absolutely necessary.
- RPing things you don't like is not the same as not having biases. It's literally completely unrelated and the fact that you keep using it is a defense is beyond absurd.
- Why are we back to ingame viability? The original point was about real world values. This point is literally unrelated to what you were attempting to address. You also fail to prove or attempt to prove that "communism" is unviable." You just state it as a matter of fact.
You keep moving the goalposts. You refuse to or are unable to define socialism as either in game mechanics or out of game values and move between definitions as it suits you. You keep talking past my points, it's almost like you're responding to keywords and arguing against points I'm not even making. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't read a thing I've said, skimming through just enough to belch out another ill-conceived point.
The bottomline is you're incapable of arguing well and in good faith, so this will be my last response to you. I look forward to reading your next 6 "I'm leaving this game because I'm better than you all and have better uses of my time" posts.
The goalposts were simple: how does communism work in this game to maintain a competitive spirit?
You still haven't answered the question. Your departure from the thread is a cop out for the failure to do so.
Don't tell me I've failed to prove it's unviable either. Burden of proof is on the affirmative, and that applies for any strategic ideology in this game or anything at all in anything for that matter. Don't think you get special treatment either just because your SI is communist.
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On 4/23/2018 at 10:56 PM, durmij said:
- The personal is not determinant, but it is relevant.
- It's literally the only example. My "rule" can't be proved with one sample, but your ultimatum is incompatible with the reality you ignore.
- http://politicsandwar.wikia.com/wiki/Charming_War We're talking about this game. Though I messed up the name, so that's on me.
- How on earth is CF having protection negate their internal structure, organizing or FA history?
- I said "of note". As in, breaking the top 40 and having an FA presence. Socialists and fascist themed alliances pop up all the time as micros, but we don't care because micros are shit.
- You don't bring up your personal biases, they are exhibited through your actions and words. That's literally the concept of biases.
- You literally have no grounding for your sweeping IC generalizations, so the source has to be your OOC views.
- This last one is beyond belief. It's a game. Nuke bloc doesn't need to clarify that they are against RL nuclear apocalypse. Your "defense" over not having biases because you're against armed conflict and theft IRL but do it in game is one of the most fricking redonkulous things I've ever seen.
- It's not relevant. The question is how an alliance is run, not what the leader believes in. We're not talking about OOC beliefs here.
- Indeed, it's the only example. You're just repeating yourself over and over while grasping for straws.
- You're ignoring how the players in the alliances were motivated by intergame politics which invalidates your example.
- CF's protection suggests it's not a purely socialist situation.
- Now, you're cherry-picking in choosing when to pay attention to smaller alliances.
- Claiming I'm personally biased is ridiculous. I deliberately RP things I don't believe in just for the fun of it. The point is there's no fun to RPing communism in this game unlike how piracy can be fun. Heck, the HoI4 crowd knows this because of how I play communist countries in MP games for fun.
- Of course Nuke bloc doesn't need to. Its strategy is viable. Communism is not.
The bottomline is you're just defending communists who are carrying on a childish temper tantrum. -
32 minutes ago, durmij said:
You are literally just pulling this out of your ass. There are several leftists in positions of power in several alliances, which often fight each. BK has a surprisingly large left contingent, and there are other examples out there, but lets refer to the only time in history your theory faced a real test and failed.
Charming Friends was attacked by Socialist Workers Front for attacking Nord-Reich or whatever the frick that dogwhistle nonsense was. Literally the only time more than one socialist alliance of note existed, and it fought the other. Now SWF was a mess and CF, while being dear to my heart, was never top tier, but the fact remains that this happened. And equating ingame mechanics with themes is nonsense. I've talked to several capitalist in favour of an in game command economy.
You keep just making shit up about the game, bringing in your personal biases and ignoring history or even current affairs. Everyone has their blind spots, but you just keep plowing through the truth like an ice breaker. You've literally been doing this since you started "playing". Not once have I seen a post from you that's been grounded in reality in any single way. So I just have to ask, why? What's the purpose of constantly coming to a game you openly hate just to say things that are wrong?This is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start. I'll just leave it at this:
Your personal political beliefs are irrelevant as an alliance leader.
A minor example of one socialist alliance attacking another doesn't prove the rule.
Your example is actually an extension of something from another game: http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Antifa-Nordreich_War
In fact, CF was protected by Syndicate for a while, so it doesn't even really count as a controlled experiment.
There have been many more socialist alliances besides those two. Claiming they the only ones that have existed in the game is a flat out lie.
I haven't brought up any personal biases here. In fact, I'm not even debating whether or not socialism is justified in this thread since I'm looking at it from a IC perspective only.
If anyone has a personal bias here, it's you since you like the ideology and don't separate your OOC preference versus IC gameplay.
If anyone doesn't, it's me. Heck, I played in Arrgh for a while despite not approving of OOC piracy, and I criticized TKR members just as much for taking OOC ideology too seriously in how they play the game which is the exact opposite of IC socialism.
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21 hours ago, Malal said:
That's basically how everyone views this game and how everyone views your posts. It doesn't help you that you are constantly saying random crap to show how unimportant this game is and how little you care about it. Because 1. no one playing this game actually believes it's important and 2. someone who has better things to do with their time wouldn't be spending all of it on the OWF to tell everyone how they have no time to spare on the game.
That's total BS.
If people believed this game was unimportant, they'd be at war all the time, never worry about losing their infra, wouldn't care about the risk of betrayal, and would mostly delete after playing for a far shorter period of time due to how sensation-less the game experience actually is.
In order for the game to have as much value as the game leaders give it, they have to care.
The truth is the game is played by a bunch of vain and sarcastic people who are too self-absorbed to admit to the truth in themselves. They feel good getting things wrong to get under other people's skin to compensate for their refusal to look at themselves honestly in the mirror.
Put plainly, the only people who really seem to play this game right are the guys in Arrgh!...
...and I was there before, so I know what it's like.-
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21 hours ago, Malal said:
No one who has anything better to do with their time would play this game.
I play this game to dabble on the side when I have moments of free time in my day now. Last summer, I had a lot of free time to throw at baseball, but now, it's just meh.
The bottomline is you people have made this game way too much work to be bothered. I've more valuable experiences to indulge in.
14 hours ago, Cataduanes said:Yes it is a game but one has to put in some degree of work to achieve something within it surely?
Some degree isn't a high degree.
The amount of people who play hard to get to become the center of attention here basically means you have to be a tryhard to get anywhere.
10 hours ago, LeotheGreat said:Race you there.
The real problem is the people in those alliances are just stubborn. They're fixed on past relations and have no acknowledgment of the opportunities to blindside everyone while realizing that put together, they would cover each other's score ranges.
It's a huge opportunity, but they're just irrational at the end of the day while content with simply existing. I'd have more fun playing with a bed of pet rocks.
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16 hours ago, The Internationalist said:
If somehow the Communists managed to take over all of P&W, they'd probably explode into at least 15 ideological sub-groups. Without opposition, there would be no reason for the left-unity which holds 'em together. Leftists are great at sectarian infighting, believe me.
This honestly seems like a sarcastic response where you're denying the obvious just to make IG communism look good.
I don't deny that leftists are fine at sectarian infighting, but it's because of priorities such as whether feminism, multiculturalism, egalitarianism, environmentalism, relativism, postmodernism, empiricism, or elitism should come first. Intersectionality doesn't really work out since it results in discrimination olympics...
...but communists fighting fellow communists doesn't have value in PnW. In real life, there was concern over how strongly communism should impose centralized bureaucracy, but in PnW, communism can only be simulated through centralized bureaucracy.
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32 minutes ago, Roquentin said:
Well the idea is usually having a theme such as that is it's more recruitable. In most Communist-themed alliances in these games people tend to be RPing. In practice, a Communist alliance just tends to be either a representative or direct democracy with the theme. The problem in this game and why I agreed with your post is communism doesn't exist(except maybe what CF did) and high taxes/centralized econ can't be implemented without consent. There are no workers. Alliances are largely self-contained entities in terms of econ policy and don't have economic systems they can impose on other people, so there is no cold war to fight, though the issue is people seem to want one. An issue unique to PW is the extent of stigmatization of those with the theme, which limits participation in global politics. In contrast in every other game, even people who hated Communism IRL were willing to cooperate and sign treaties with them.
I concur there's a recruitability advantage since some players just want to RP communism, but I can't imagine it being easy to hold onto the members you recruit because it's not like you're creating a worldwide revolution. Like you said, players have to consent to join your alliance. Unless you plan on declaring war on non-communist nations just because they're not part of your ideology, there really isn't any enforcement you can do.
As far as I can tell, communist alliances are stigmatized because they won't fight each other. This is unlike capitalist and fascist alliances which will due to their competitive nature. If communist alliances one day took over PnW, the game would come to a standstill. They're deliberately targeted to prevent that standstill from happening. If communists win, the game dies. If non-communists win, the game continues.
I mean you can't even simulate a Stalin-Mao-Tito split in PnW because there's really only one way to run communism: tax your members immensely, vote in certain people to office, and let those people decide how to redistribute resources to achieve growth. Sure, you could tax varying amounts between say 50-100% as well as prefer to tax commerce or industry, but these are ultimately strategic calls, not policy doctrines.
Say communists did take over PnW one day. How would conflict continue to exist in the game for players to enjoy?
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The Ape will always be the master of how to peel a banana:
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22 hours ago, durmij said:
You're arguing that a deliberately featureless section of nations within the game don't have the features you associate with an alliance theme, so the theme is untenable? And that nonsense about imperialism and revolution... this might actually be your stupidest non-mechanics post yet.
I'm arguing RL communism has no value in this game because this game has no space for communism to be practiced.
Therefore, being a communist alliance in PnW is pointless.
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22 hours ago, durmij said:
You'll still be back occasionally to post some inane whining about stuff you know nothing about. It is your way.
No I won't.
I've debated on RL political forums for a decade, and have played MMORTS for over a dozen.
I'm also involved on Twitter now which is far more immersive than PnW.
Put plainly, there are better alternatives out there besides PnW for political engagement.
I'm also a 4th Degree Knight and counsel and chapter officer as well as life insurance agent in the Knights of Columbus which deserves my time much more than what PnW has to offer.
21 hours ago, Tiberius said:Put the work in, take over an alliance's leadership and make the changes you want to see?
It's too much work to be bothered. I have more important priorities.
Besides, this is a game that's played for fun. It's not a job.
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22 minutes ago, Partisan said:
I have disliked you and almost every opinion you have had since day 1, and I still stand by that. Go away pls.
Right back at you. :-P
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3 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:
What, do you have a problem with warships being given the female pronoun too? Don't get so stupidly triggered over widely used and established terminology. Sketchy's names are perfect since there were a lot of alliances that lost their 'global war virginity', and all the phrases we can use to describe that unique circumstance naturally include gender-specific terminology.
How you're getting triggered over both masculine and feminine war name suggestions is low-key amusing though.The only people getting triggered are the traps implicitly called out.
Calling that virginity is rather pathetic too.
As for ships getting called her and she, a bit of research on naval tradition would do you good.
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Ayyslamic Crusade is still the best one around.
Everything else sounds generic.
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Dubayoo's $1Billion KofC Giveaway
in Orbis Central
Posted
Whether it's impossible or not is irrelevant.
The point is joining the order is necessary to qualify, but insufficient by itself, to get a prize.
I've very deliberately designed the giveaway this way since I've no interest in paying people to join the order. Quality comes before quantity.