Schwieger
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Posts posted by Schwieger
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Looks good, Four.
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No objections here.
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We are on hold here for a few weeks.
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OOC: @Wolf -
If you have issues, you are free to PM me. I will discuss matters there; please do not interject OOC comments into IC threads without actually participating IC. Thanks in advance.
IC:
Dakar, Senegal
Neutral Territory Between Nalydian Cape Verde and Triskeli Africa
The serene African landscape is greeted with the presence of large ships that loom menacingly overhead. Dakar, a city with some one million inhabitants, has become the focal point for the Nalydian end of the construction project. Lower members of the Colony Natynozh High Hunter Council are dispatched to discuss the details of the project with local authorities; for the most part agreements are readily reached without prolonged debate, but in a few cases the natives are... Coerced into cooperating. No matter in the long run however - the project will soon be over from the Pordish perspective and Nalydya will be out of their hair. Thus landfall is achieved: the movers and haulers finally come upon the rocky African shores and vast torrents of earth are sucked skyward creating massive chasms; myriad fields and containment barriers prevent collapse of the newly and rapidly forming channel, and speedy repurposement of the material removed allows for the speedy establishment of solid retaining walls and other things of that sort. Behind them massive seawalls keep the Atlantic from storming in just yet - they will not allow the stormy blue to claim the channel until they have completed its construction.
In Nalydian Iceland, the Jewel of Orbis has completed preparations for its world tour. In the command room deep within the bowels of the city, the officer on deck gives the orders to pull away from the yards; the city acquiesces and it begins to distance itself from the building docks. Vast torrents of water spray out from under the gargantuan craft as it begins to settle in the water; the Pords at the helm ease her down - making note of the water depth, careful to avoid fully settling her as the area is not deep enough to permit her to fully rest - and set course for the open ocean. The transition takes all of ten minutes from release to full steam. By the end of that timeframe she is pulling away from Nalydian Iceland and Pords can be seen lining the streets towards the outskirts of the city and standing atop buildings and on balconies and porches to catch glimpse of land for the last time until they reach the first stop in their tour. With plenty of steam and a considerable clip, the Jewel of Orbis makes way for the Mediterranean.
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Nalydian Cape Verde
Orbis, Orbis System
The transition of the Cape Verde Islands to Pordish control has gone relatively smoothly since the Paramarines seized the lands for the Greater Nalydian Empire. Upon the myriad islands vast cities have begun to spring forth; tall skyscrapers, architecture not typically Nalydian but nevertheless used when not constructed on sacred coldground, call to the heavens. To eyes uninitiated they resemble pagodas, but only in styling. And while their construction is of steel and stone (the masonry is very impressive), they are molded and decorated to pay homage to the great god Rekazhnar who has allowed them to live upon his mighty ocean. Yet even with Pords pouring into these new territories - its population has ballooned considerably - they are still well below peak capacity.
Elsewhere in the nation, however (namely Nalydian Iceland), the first of the newest generation of Jewels has been completed: the Jewel of Orbis. At its greatest extent it sprawls for fifteen kilometers across and has a draft of some half kilometers when fully sitting in the water. It is of new design; the Jewels built previously, all of Frankian design and some even of make, were flawed. The death of the Jewel of the Pacific and the millions of Pords who called it home is testament to that. Fortunately for Nalydya, such mistakes will not occur again. To kick off the completion of the first Jewel (more are on the way - one for each ocean as High Hunter Nykat declared) a world tour has been ordered for the floating city with at least one nation per continent being visited: Kressnia in Europe, Triskel in Africa, Tonina on North America and the Almarin Expanse south of them. The Frankian Asian Territories are to be the last lands visited.
Following the announcement of the world tour, tens of dozens of industrial movers and heavy lifting ships began sailing towards Africa - Dakar, Senegal, in particular. Starting well out in the Atlantic where the water is some one kilometer deep, vast amounts of earth are moved out of the area, re-purposed, and then used to reinforce the start of a new project: the Nalydian-Triskeli TransAfrican Channel. The ships hover above the calm Atlantic and go about their business as efficiently as they can. Overall, the channel is planned to be a kilometer deep and twenty wide, and will link Lake Chad to the Atlantic Ocean to allow for ocean going vessels easy access to Triskel. As the final major city on the path chosen, Dakar will serve as the primary staging ground for the continental portion of the project. Nalydian ships and engineers will begin building from the sea and hopefully will meet up with Triskeli engineers building westward from Lake Chad. With the exception of Dakar (which will now border the channel), towns, cities, and villages in the path of the channel will be relocated.
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The point of the OOC threads is to keep relevant information easily accessible. It allows everyone to follow RPs and keep pace with what's going on. PMs and Discord are nice, but they far from serve the same purpose OOC threads serve.
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whew that was a lot to read.
I was under the impression that Nat RP would most likely continue its course as pretty much a "light" version of RP. From where I am standing that is what it seems like. Therefore, this whole consent thing would remain the same as it has always been. The only reason I posted it was to see if any wording would need to be changed.
As far as I'm concerned - consent is needed for all major operations, like - traveling across the nations land with a full army, taking your ships into owned waters. Etc. But if a plane flies over, someone is at the border....all that small stuff, It really doesn't matter at that point.
I mean - most times you can build off that type of thing together.
So - I think as it stands Nat RP will remain "with consent" on the major operations as the key here was to tweak Nat RP and not change it all. Also basing that the general consensus of Nat RP is to still have consent.
All of those other MAJOR changes we can implement into the NEW RP which we will create after Nat RP is completely settled and ready to roll.
k?
This makes sense. Sounds like a plan to me.
We have seen that every time you guys bring up no consent, no one likes it and that starts some type of twitter/facebook comment war.
If you see it is an unpopular change than stop pursuing it, maybe go to individuals ask their opinion and what they recommend, you guys are hellbent on changing a rule that is the core and moral to many people. We saw what happened when Frankia invade poor Russia, destroyed 3 fleets on par with his own and pretty much destroyed the Russian Federation. However we also see that the Dutch/Caledonina-Evenstar war which was by far one of the most successful wars which was a consent based, and mutual agreed upon. We planed battles we looked at context Evenstar had more planes, I had more ships, and Caledonia had the tech., We put it together and we made an entire war around it. People came in, gave their moral or military support.
I feel you guys should ditch the no consent Idea and focus on change because everyone won't agree and they will fight you over the consent part and not give two craps on the rest of your proposal.
We very likely were not reading the same RP then. I didn't (still don't) see anything about Russia or multiple fleets being destroyed - the only people who were saying such things were - amusingly enough - people from your end.
And while I have already agreed with what Four has suggested above about relegating newer changes such as consent to the new RP subforums, I do feel the rest of what you have presented needs to be addressed: what you have suggested pretty much can be summed up as "suggest change, but don't suggest change," and "suggest change, but only change we agree with." The point of making suggestions is to generate discourse - this is how we work thinks out and decipher where everyone stands. It's only natural that people may disagree, but this isn't reason enough to silence them. The point of putting forth suggestions isn't to agree beforehand - it's to talk the matter over and see if something can be made from the myriad ideas being rocketed around by people.
One of the main reasons we have been pushing the "no consent" so hard (if you can even call the pursuit hard - it was only really recently brought up again, and not even by us; Four was asking about whether or not it should be changed on page one and I responded as I could only assume he wanted the matter to be discussed) is because of the times it has been brought up, the folks here have consistently failed to recognize what we have been saying about the matter (I'll gladly explain in detail over Discord if you are willing).
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Wasn't my tech so I won't defend that.
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Honestly, I don't see what the issue is. Are you claiming that Knightmare Frames are capable of dodging artillery? Or that having artilley capable of engaging 'frames is unreasonable?
Because on a technical level, claiming to be able to dodge artillery is much more unreasonable than claiming to be able to target something. Modern capabilities give anywhere from a few minutes to a few seconds to dodge incoming rounds. Adjust this for future tech velocities and I'd venture to say most instances will give you a few seconds to move out of the way.
It's much more likely a large mech will get tagged than one not getting tagged. Guns don't operate alone.
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@Thalmor -
The point that seems to be getting glossed over is the fact that even without consent RPers cannot take over another person's nation overnight. I'll say it again for emphasis: RPers cannot take over another person's nation overnight.
The point of roleplay is to, as I have stated before, engage in a back and forth. Claiming to have seized all of someone's holdings without them having the opportunity to RP out everything that would have happened in between is a godmod.
@Lelouch -
Fast firing weaponry is far from unreasonable. Considering that we currently (as in, real life 2016) have the capability to shoot fast moving tanks with guns and other assorted weaponry, I see no reason why in the future we would lose this capability.
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And we are skeptical of your "don't need your permission to attack you without consent." bs. We havent had a SINGLE problem with that rule and we had wars and etc. And it ran smoothly.
It is RP. An RP is basically a storyline of your nation hence why most post are about their nations internal affairs and sometimes foreign affairs. Frankly, if you have a problem with our RP style, than don't include is in your RP, don't mention us. You can just go have fun in your multi clan bubble and we will do our own. Where it has worked for us.
Calling opinions you disagree with "bs" is rather colourful and I would tend to think rather unneeded here. With that said...
A storyline about one's own nation actually isn't RP; RP implies interaction between multi parties. When you lack actual interaction it becomes more akin to (fan)fiction. This though is wholly irrelevant - I explained above why the rule is largely unneeded. It serves no real purpose.
The consent is to also meant to make sure the other person wants to rp and that maybe things can be planned ahead. What's the point of pushing an rp that the other person doesn't want if for anything it isn't fun for that person and it wouldn't be fun for the one who started it because you're being roadblocked and that within itself is going to lead to some things OOC wise that shouldn't be lead to. Also it's just simple RP etiquette.
Some don't enjoy waking up, checking forums, and seeing that they've been invaded because some don't really enjoy being caught off guard. With consent they at least know what's coming and can plan accordingly. Plus consent is to make sure godmodding and such doesn't happen.
Moving on, as for the OOC threads, I can say that might be a good idea but I also think OOC matters can be discussed via PM or discord (but that's me personally).
You are correct - somewhat. Sure things can be planned out ahead if you so desire, you might even shoot the person a PM. Ultimately if they don't wish to RP then the RP isn't going to happen, this doesn't really need to be said. The main issue is that we are RPing in a living, breathing, universe. You shouldn't need to get permission from someone else for the vast majority of things. Shex actually ninja'd me, but he does bring up a decent point - godmodding and consent have little to do with one another.
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As for the consent rule... Not everything should (nor do they really require) consent. We are, after all, players on a nations-based game attempting to RP out the interactions of star- and Orbis-bound polities. Natural interaction is infinitely more preferable, imho.
Going on what Riza said, it is the right of everyone to play their nation in a safe and secure environment. That being said, we might see another incident where Mayor "took" Japan and it was already occupied, as such. Not blaming anyone, but the NATRP community knows too well what happens when people don't give consent and how chaotic it will be.
Most of us don't mind if you say, an aircraft flew over France, but if you say The "Name removed" Armada destroyed the Entire French navy and moved onto Paris, that is something no one unless futurity agreed upon says.
Most of us tend to be overly skeptical of consent for the fact it isn't really needed.
What you guys are talking about isn't roleplay - plain and simple. You don't just take people's nations or destroy people armies, lands, people, etc. That sort of thing doesn't happen - with or without consent - it's just not how RP works. I don't actually feel there's much purpose for the rule the way it is currently implemented because it's only really possible for it to be used to hamper legitimate RP - the cases and examples everyone here have repeatedly given or mentioned have consistently been instances of godmodding, metagaming, or other various types of RP-breaking or non-RP passages which have already skirted or leapt over the bounds of RP.
You can start a war. You don't get to claim victory.
You can launch an attack on the enemy fleet. You don't claim success.
You can move men into their lands (assuming a land border). You don't claim seizing the nation.
etc...
RP is a give and take - each action has a reaction; it takes effort and it takes time. One party does not dictate what happens any more than the other. If I want to invade my neighbour? Fine - but from my end I just get to detail my movements and actions, not the success of those actions or movements. It is up to the other person in the RP to figure out how far I would have penetrated or how much damage my attacks would have done.
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I am probably going to get rid of the 3 Strike Rule.
The new system for warns should help deter the problem posters in this community.
I'm not sure if you guys want to change this one
- As a general rule of thumb, you should consult the other person you're interacting with when involved in two-way interactions when there is no in-game precedent. For example, if you win a war against someone in-game, you're welcome to make a roleplay post about how you won the war, but if you do so with no in-game action and the other player has not given consent, your post will be removed.
I also saw that some of you guys want IC/OOC posts.
How would you like that to happen?
OOC threads will obviously help with things. Not every thread needs an accompanying OOC thread (one off threads come to mind), but I do think for threads with multiple people that are expected to last beyond the first few pages OOC threads should be encouraged.
As for the consent rule... Not everything should (nor do they really require) consent. We are, after all, players on a nations-based game attempting to RP out the interactions of star- and Orbis-bound polities. Natural interaction is infinitely more preferable, imho.
"This subforum is for roleplaying your in-game nations. You must use your in-game nation name, and while you may expound upon the information in-game, things should remain within the realm and scope of the Orbis world and your in-game nation."
This rule should be changed, I mean I am technically breaking the rules if this is a rule, and a couple others too. I mean my nation in the RP community is nothing like my nation in in-game. It's a pointless rule.
Issue with this rule is simply that it is way too vague. Beyond in-game nation name, there aren't really any guidelines for what is or should be allowed. Personally, I'd nix this rule entirely - there's little reason to keep it.
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Nien,
for example;
The German-Republic war. Germany gave land consessions to the Dutch and Republic. It is between two real nations, you can rp an invasion and your claim, but ultimately who ever claimed it the next month will get it.
Otherwise everyone would invade the crap of our empty land for more land.
You can't get land via war unless it is between you and another player
Also, really more islands
Yea - I don't really want any actual land on the continents... hahaha
Way too much space/much more land than we need for what we're doing here.
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You are limited to two provinces every month, and by the former map you did not have the Canary Islands neither cape Verde.
I'll see about the colors, and Ill change the name soon.
Edit: Austria is grey
Danke.
And yes - they were seized by elements of the Nalydian military. The rules mentioned land taken through force of arms isn't capped at two provinces per month. Invasions not considered under this?
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Is there a reason Nalydian holdings are lime green on this map as opposed to the blue from the previous map? I'd like to request for these to be changed to a shade of dark blue or gray, if for no reason other than that those colours more accurately represent the nation. In addition to this, the full name should be Colony Natynozh, not just Natynozh; Natynozh alone is a star system, Colony Natynozh are the collection of PW-1 verse claims Nalydya holds. I will also note the seizure of the Cape Verde and Canary Islands here.
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Thanks for this thread Four - I think more than a few of us were perhaps waiting for an "official" start, if you will.
Personally, I'd like to see the encouragement of OOC threads to contain OOC information about and pertaining to RPs. As was stated before this can help tremendously with keeping OOC out of IC interactions. In addition to this, Lelouch did note the relative lack of overall unity on these forums and I'd like to say that we should perhaps help encourage actual interaction between people. To do this I actually recommend fewer threads with more impetus on continuation (instead of posting four or five threads per day about happenings in X nation, perhaps post them in the same thread) rather than "one offs" where a thread is posted with a few paragraphs and little is expected with regards to replying or continuation.
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If this one isn't suitable I'll upload the full-sized standard later today.
*edit*
Here is the full-size
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Kressnian Belgrade
A solitary Chorzhalb Zhyssian type dreadnought surfaces out of the rift above Belgrade and looses a trio of atmospheric transports from its rather extensive hangar bay. The smaller craft, free from the extent of the orbiting warship, zoom planetside. They crash through the air column and soon find themselves over Belgrade, the location of the current Kressnian summit. Circling above the city they request clearance and then make their landing in rather typical Nalydian fashion: efficiently, quietly, and without pomp or flair.
This is the end of such things however, as patrols of trident-wielding Guards of Jlokhemit move out in front of the Nalydian entourage and begins to clear traffic away; behind them come infantry marching in glorious step. Men clad in blue tunics and trousers with glistening breastplates and helms and bayonets begin to move towards the summit hall; a grand band follows them and plays in sync with their movements while mounted cavalry rides to the rear. Canteens clank and boots click as they glide across the asphalt. Tall standards are hoist high above the marching infantry and it becomes clear from the symbols that the Great House of Natynozh is here in representation.
They arrive at the summit hall in good order and are ushered inside. Leading the pack is High Hunter Cholkük, reigning head of the Great House of Natynozh and successor to the late great Yamsi Natynozh. He moves first into the room and his entourage follows him, standards waving magnificently behind them as they emerge into the chamber. Most of them stop at the door but two trident-wielders accompany Cholkük as he penetrates deeper; he is impressed with the marble workmanship and the impressive display of foods now before him. Scanning the room, he recognizes the Triskeli contingent (but not who, specifically) and also Danica - a face he has not seen since the last UMS Summit in Tnem-Fragg.
We are humbled to have been invited to this summit, nam-Danica, Cholkük says with a bow.
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Orbis System;
Neptune and Uranus:
The chilly outer planets orbit lazily in their great ovaloid tracks, slowly chugging along in the distant void far from the day-to-day happenings of the Planet Orbis. Silence permeates this icy realm, but this solace is soon broken. From the tumultuous rift myriad ships are disgorged; tens of dozens of portals rend the fabrics relative to the two ice giants, allowing the vast behemoths of the VRZ access. The long ships of the High Hunter's Navy slide into coherent reality and take up positions. Neptune is received of its Pordic host first; a panoply of rift cruisers and 265 kilometer long Chorzhalb Zhyssian type dreadnoughts slide into its orbitals and are soon arrived off Triton. The tiny boreal satellite, practically spawned from Amaruq himself, answers the Nalydian aggression. A tall plume of icy particulates sallies forth from its arctic crust - freed from the agitated interior - to greet the trident-wielding warships of Pordlandia.
The rift ships of course are not impressed by the moon's struggle. Massive structures are loosed onto its surface and it has become clear that Triton is the first to be slated for Pordish colonization. Following the massive structures are a number of smaller craft (shuttles, perhaps), which follow them down onto the ice. Pords can be seen emerging from their interiors to begin working on establishing a settlement; some appear to be clad in civilian attire - varying types of robes and trousers and shirts - while others are easily discernible as members of the VRZ.
Neptune is spared further colonization for the time being, but Uranus is not as fortunate. Within the localized moon-systems of Miranda, Ariel, Umbriel, Titania, and Oberon, Pordish warships descend. As with Triton, they unleash vast structures upon the numerous surfaces and allow for crews to begin establishing solid infrastructure. One city in particular rising out of the butternut-tinged surface of Oberon has been given the name Grazhni Yamsi, (in honour of the late Yamsi Natynozh) and is poised to become the capital of the newly christened Greater Nalydian Neptunian and Uranian Territory.
Halfway in between the orbits of Uranus and Neptune, more warships pour forth from the sickly domain. They bring with them a very large structure; it is a station of sorts, a large ring ten thousand kilometers in breadth (wide enough to permit the largest of VRZ warships passage as well as the bulk of UMS vessels save for some of the largest) and bespeckled with visible docking ports and orbiting berths for larger ships. It resembles the floating shipyards above Grazhni Yamsai almost perfectly; the primary difference is one of scale - the Yamsai'an yards are much larger and are not equipped for inter-universal transit. In the center of the massive ring swirl putrid energies - the energies of the plane separating universes: it is a portal that leads directly to the Nalydian home universe; upon entering the portal, warship, man, and body would find themselves whisked away to its mirror station, a similar ring that has just been moved into position in the outskirts of a system a mere dozen lightyears away from the bustling GESO hub of Talos.
Orbis Proper:
Long streams of men and equipment flow south towards the Cape Verde and Canary Islands. They are part of High Hunter Nykat's continued expansion plan; he has already ordered the construction of a Jewel for each ocean on Orbis, and has cleared the seizing of islands and water-bound territories across the globe in the name of Rekazhnar, the pelagic guardian of the lakes, seas, oceans, and tides. While elements of the VRZ establish Nalydian presence in the outer-reaches of the system, naval infantry land on and claim the numerous islands that comprise the Cape Verde and Canary Islands; with the lands mostly unorganized and uninhabited they encounter no resistance and the operations are completed without issue. Within hours of their fall, a photo begins to circulate throughout the Pordish colonial holdings of a Paramarine smiling as she raises the division standards and VRZ standards above a very precariously perched native structure.
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Addition of Imperial Kesrithi Navy assets and Imperial Mri Army naval task force.
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This thread is intended to operate as the accompaniment thread for Last Winds of Karak, which can be found here: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/16819-last-winds-of-karak/
Questions, comments, or concerns relating to the RP can be voiced here and I will be keeping this thread up-to-date with maps and relevant OOC information pertaining to the course of the various battles and the overall war.
Current maps:
Locations of Nakbe Base Javelins (orange) with current provinces under siege (black):
Positions of Pordish, Mri, and Nakbe forces following the establishment of the first fronts:
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Isn't Organic RP supposes to more realistic and to help, if attacking nations without consent is your view, then I am hands down not up for change, but hey if your buddy wants a way HOW ABOUT HE DEVELOPS HIS INGAME NATION, then maybe i can show him a lesson or two
And for realism it is obious this doesnt follow any realism, hell there are 5 orbtial space stations did he destory them, or did he defeat an entire armed forces plus 4 other armies
I dont know how one can do that, you complain about over night tech, how about over night destroying 5 armies, and an entire nation!
As an addendum to my previous post, please refer to "Last Winds of Karak" for how an Organic RP Conflict should play out. It is currently on hold as the Mri RPer is fleeing from hurricane Matthew, but there is more than enough there to be able to discern the type of RP Organic is supposed to be.
At the risk of defending Frankia:
The destruction of the various nations and their orbital facilities was/is assumed by you. His actual assault post merely notes troop movements and initial artillery and EMP barrages.
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Looked over this thread after it was brought to my attention.
Just my two cents:
This is not an example of Organic RP. Nothing in this thread follows the guides laid out in the Organic RP Suggestion thread. For reference, these are the guidelines:
Respectable behavior OOC;
Respectable behavior IC;No Metagaming;No GMing;Reasonable IC progression of events;OOC Threads;Posting QualityNeedless to say what has happened here does not fall within this ruleset.-
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*NEW* Role Play Development
in Roleplay Discussion/Suggestions [OOC]
Posted · Edited by Schwieger
As always, thank you (Four) for spending the time to put this together.
Thalmor pretty much hits the nail on the head for main suggestions. I will add that metagaming and godmodding should also be added onto the rule list for things that we wish to prevent.