Sans
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Posts posted by Sans
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54 minutes ago, Buorhann said:
No thanks.
I've already stated my opinion on the matter several times throughout the year and since IQ's formation.
So its only ok when you talk to someone but not for anyone else?
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1 hour ago, Buorhann said:
> @Hilmes/Kayser's "Talk to IQ" post
I would honestly open up communication with an IQ aligned alliance and look to working with them, but with the supremacy clause in the way - I cannot do that just yet till that is gone.
Cool, now we're getting somewhere. While we're at it how about we don't throw up at the very thought of someone else talking to them huh? That would be nice to retain some sort of continuity and all. Wouldn't want folks to think your alliance has any hypocrites. You know because a few of them went out of their way blasting folks committing the crime of attempting to do something interesting in this god forsaken game.
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56 minutes ago, Queen M said:
I'm not saying anything other than there's nothing to entice IQ to break when looking at their alternatives. I know IQ's issues, I know Syndi/EMC's issues, I know paperless issues. I also know that a large portion of this game doesn't care about anything that happened before they got here and yet the minority is the loudest and carrying on grudges for PnW Beta and before.
I don't have a dog in the fight, guys. Have at ramming your heads against the wall.
Worse yet, any poor fool who tries will get shit on by folks who with the same breath will crucify IQ for not breaking up. Its unbelievable if you think about it, this level of cognitive dissonance.
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54 minutes ago, Justin076 said:
If you have trust issues, be more willing to build trust. I left mid conversation so I really don't know how the latter went. However while I was there all I interpreted was excuses and an unwillingness to build trust or make change. It was repetitive conversation every single day, why you should trust us, why we can't trust you, what we want to do and what we cannot do. I never once felt that the other party came into the conversation or "negotiations" in good-faith and were doomed from the beginning. If they showed a bit or willingness to nudge or change the status quo, I probably wouldn't have become as much as an anti-IQ voice as I have.
I understand that man, but we were literally the two alliances they considered the highest threat to themselves, having spoken to many other alliances on their side and been rejected. Not to mention the historical rivalry that has existed between our two alliances. That is a lot to get over and it wasn't going to happen overnight. Being in the conversation and spending their time there to even try to get over these reservations was something. It took a bit to deal with the chill in the air, but after a bit there was some good joking around between aa heads that before were bitter rivals. I understand where you are coming from, but I feel some things regarding their willingness to engage honestly are and were overlooked.
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2 hours ago, Dio Brando said:
You have a status quo where IQ, if it disbands, will be left with parties that have been alienated repeatedly. I'm sure some of the more louder members of your coalition will come up here and talk about how that would not come to pass if IQ did dissolve, that they would be willing to treaty and dance with the parties in IQ. Have you at any given time considered that treaties are a two-way street? I have seen several members (shitposting, as they were) discussing TKR's former FA head opting to pick a direction its membership (TKR's) was not comfortable.
Let it be known that the majority of the criticisms toward's this path was a lack of belief in its ability to be pulled off, not the path itself. And as it so happens, there where no less than two opportunities on the table or some shit to go down if certain members of gov did not sabotage it.
1 hour ago, Justin076 said:In the talks I had with IQ, trust was their biggest thing. Yet every proposal presented to them to try and build trust between us and them was shot down with ridiculous excuses and just proved to me that they weren't in this in good-faith or with the intent of getting anywhere.
Heya Justin, hope you're having fun in TGH. I know how much patience you demonstrated over the course of things from the start of that whole thing to you passing on the torch, but I feel as if some things are being loss with perspective. This isn't a personal objection towards you, just a disagreement on somethings that I want to clarify.
Not having enough trust is a legitimate concern. And in hindsight, they're honestly right. Being approached by someone you really don't trust and are skeptical to is extremely suspicious. Trying to believe such a person or alliance will take your word at face value right away is a standard no one will adhere to if the shoe was on the other foot. It took time over the course of our discussions to build some level of trust to get to a point where we can talk openly. And lets not say we did not change our demands or pushed what we would be more comfortable doing. That's how negotiations work. We eventually got to a point where we had deals on the table. Those were rejected by our party, that's not on them. Its on us. They didn't call off negotiations....
Edit- Concerning IQ as a whole, I really don't understand what non IQ wants from them. If its to split them up, all it really is going to do is make them dislike non IQ more and want to stick together. What are you trying to do? Beat them down hard enough to demonstrate other options are better? Are treaty cuts part of the terms you want to enforce? Just laying into your favorite punching bag? Do you really have the will to sustain a war that long to meet these goals? And if not, then whats the freaking point.
If everyone and their mother spits vile and disgust on them, who the frick are they going to ally when they split up? Are they just supposed to be content to be weaker and vulnerable in comparison to every other sphere? Put yourself in their shoes and tell me wtf you're doing in their situation.
To those disseminating false information.
I don't appreciate this rewritten history concerning what was or was not acceptable by "the membership" if you want to challenge my ability to read, I can damn sure prove my literacy for you.
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Thanks for the stats.
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Welcome to Orbis
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Happy birthday. Enjoy your fight(s)
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War is pretty dank. Ayy have fun all.
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Nuke bloc is fast becoming the center of a lot of weight. Interesting developments.
Congratz on the treaty
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1 hour ago, Buorhann said:
So when is IQ going to hit CKD due to Sketchy's post or other alliances that people have ghosted over from?
Oh man, AO getting hit from IQ, I don't know if anyone could've trolled IQ more from such a simple video.
That like from Roq was the kiss of death.
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I sound a lot better than I last remember. A+ work from your spies Kastor.
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2 hours ago, Buorhann said:
-Snip-
We're aware of why it can look sketchy and we've done our best to explain why we can and should be believed. Anyone who is actually open to carefully considering the merits will find us and will be able to recognize our explanations for the points you brought up. Or they'll read what we've posted and will find the answer already provided. Everyone else can continue basking in their false narrative echo chamber.
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Nah Polaris, see everything we say explaining our actions and desires are lies and these folks who only have table scraps to go off on are completely in the right. They know way more about what we want than we do.
Truely, paragons of truth and all that is right.
lol.
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2 hours ago, Abbas Mehdi said:
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I laid out the reasons why our narrative has no inconsistencies with our stated goal, you can choose not to believe them and throw in some ad hom in there to spice it up, but saying it is not there selectively disregards the argument in order to push your narrative. Have fun joining the parade of critics.
edit-grmmr
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Good posts Kal.
Clearing up some specifics.
You kept your paperless ties/protected them from a possible nuke bloc hit. Yet in the same breath, you're out claiming you want to encourage mini-sphere wars and small scale conflict?
We were willing to protect those alliances from a nuke bloc hit because upper tier fighting each other without an IQ split will only give them more leverage not to split "why leave when our enemies are fighting each other, we can just grow". EMC has already split and the divisions are real. Anyone looking from the outside in should be able to tell that by now. What will not help is if during negotiations one side gets everything thing they want without concessions. So, we were willing to step in. The end goal is of course smaller scale wars and smaller spheres, but we obviously consider the smaller spheres part to be the gatehouse to smaller wars. The split of the mega-spheres has been a long term goal of ours for a while now, this is known. Nuke bloc kicking down the barn door before we can even get the mid tier consolidation addressed is premature. Which is why we were willing to discourage it.
You speak of mini spheres, yet in the same breath are trying to talk to/ally various top 5 alliances?
We're not attempting to sign a mini-hegemony (tm) we're attempting to create an environment where IQ can be split and it so happens a number of relevant IQ alliances are top 10. Its well known we have talked to these alliances in an effort to get them to split. At the moment IQ as a sphere will control everything below 17 cities if they exist as is. In order to bring some sort of significant competition to those tiers, splitting up relevant IQ alliances is a must.
And talking to these alliances isn't cozying up to them or at least not the connotation of it. We're not talking to these alliances at the expense of our former allies. It is in pursuit of getting them to believe the changes we have made and feeling comfortable enough to take part in it. Not even necessarily with us. If they want to strike out and form their own thing, that is just as well. It just so happens that the most other alliance on the web are so hypersensitive to the idea of working with an IQ alliance (gross, I know), that it seems no one else has even approached them in order to help facilitate this. So we suffer the rain of criticism while certain keyboard warriors sit on their hands (and type with their epeen).
If we wanted to keep or aim for hegemony, we would have stayed with EMC. Double down on the sphere by consolidating, encourage growth by funding all of the smaller alliances in the sphere and building enough of a lower tier threat to overwhelm IQ in all tiers. But a hegemony isn't what we wanted then and its not now despite what some prominent posters would have you believe. We did not cut those ties for nothing anyone who knew the state of our relationship with those alliances we parted from should know this and it certainly would not have been done just so we can form another hegemony with folks we haven't been chilling with since our inception. Keep recycling your narrative though cause I'm sure there is not a better use of your efforts.
You speak of small scale conflict yet in the same breath actively discourage elements like JEst, Arrgh etc. from engaging in such warfare?
Small scale conflict is eventually the goal but wars such as JEst's and Arrgh's actively discourage the actual viability of a world post IQ mid tier supremacy by continuously antagonizing them and creating a game environment that encourages them to continue to stay together. This is of course, against our vision and preferred outcome so of course we would disagree with those actions and take steps against them. In JEst's example, we cut our protectorate that ghosted them. For Arrgh well, Arrgh was just a chance for us to show that we were willing to work with IQ alliances in pursuit of a goal (In order to give credence to our stated direction, not as pre-application ( see you typing there)). No, we don't think Arrgh is the evil of all evils, and neither is JEst but you guys are going about this the wrong way. Aggressive action will always be met with a defensive response and persecuting those IQ alliances will only make it more likely that they stay together. So, if your goal really is to have more fun in a world with multiple poles so you can swim in all of the intrigue, stop fricking it up for those of us actually working towards that goal.
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You're doing your best to make a collage out pieces that don't fit. Continue to spout your narrative. There are a few here and there that will eat it up.
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56 minutes ago, durmij said:
Your narrative and the effectiveness of your actions have already been torn to shreds pretty effectively. Plus your designs on a NPO treaty are practically public record. You are so far behind in the PR battle that your detractors have already taken home their gold medals and are filming Wheaties commercials. Just form the new hegemony already so we can all work on getting past it.
Ok man, I admit it, you know more about our intended direction than we do.
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Some time ago, The Knights Radiant made an announcement in the midst of a whirlwind of political change on Orbis. We wanted to make clear our disapproval with the way that politics had progressed up until that point, with two mega spheres both occupying their own respective tiers of strength with little to no overlap. Such a structure made wars less likely and politics almost useless in the face of hyper-consolidated spheres. To that end, we set about attempting to do away with that structure.
Our attempts take us up to the present day. We're still a ways away from our ideal Orbis but we're committed to working toward it daily. Relevant to this desire is the idea of working with anyone, historical friend or foe, to work toward this goal. We can't be content to sit in our own old clique of alliances and be content. Being dynamic means reaching across the aisle and taking chances when it makes sense for you to.Recently, we were approached with an idea of tackling some pirates. Specifically, we were approached by a few alliances who have historically been opposed to TKR or the sphere we occupied. What sort of dynamic alliance would we be if we passed up this opportunity to work with them?
We didn't need the other signatories in order to carry out this war from a military perspective. That's not the point. We wanted to add to the precedent of non treatied alliances with a common goal coming together in pursuit of that goal. That historical enemies can come together in pursuit of a common goal. That we are an alliance of our word and our publicly stated direction and desire is not shallow. That we will continue to pursue that direction and our rhetoric is to be taken at face value.
This is not the culmination of our labors, but it is an important incremental step.
So here we are. This isn't about fighting a historical menace in Arrgh, it's about living up to our word.
That and blue balls, jeez, its been like 9 months or something. Finally.
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Oh shit! My first name-drop in an OWF post. Act natural act natural....
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58 minutes ago, Starbuck said:But there not exactly across the isle? They're not IQ. SK I get. But KT hasn't been in a sphere since it's inception.
It takes two to tango, if no one was willing to partner with SK, the move would not have led to anything. KT is helping to establish a sphere unto their selves. Where one did not exist before. That is something to promote.
Edit.
I would also like to add shaming IQ will not lead them to believe this move is being made in good faith. It takes time to consider moves and build trust. While I disagree with some of the skepticism that some of these moves have been viewed through, they are not entirely unreasonable. Give em some time to digest things.
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56 minutes ago, Starbuck said:
The only thing KT did was sign paper. I don't see how they did anything to "facilitate this effort"
Being open to forging new relationships with people across the isle facilitates the values we're trying to incentivize.
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This is the path we must take.
Thank you Guardian for being as understanding and patient as you have been. It means a lot.
Let it be known the intent with which we journey onwards, towards the horizon.
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Question about IQ alliances
in Orbis Central
Posted
Said as you criticize people for excising their critique. Double think at its finest.