Fox Fire
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Posts posted by Fox Fire
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I think you've gotten lost. We are not talking about "nothing being created"??? That doesn't even make sense.
We are talking about the creation of the Universes... which believe me is SOMETHING!
I will go over it again, try to keep up:
1) The Universe came into existence via the big bang. (Right, we are all in agreement here? Okay moving on.)
2) Something (like the Universe) can not come into being from nothing (because it's "nothing".... the word literally means the absence of something).
3) Something (like the Universe) that does not exist (cause our universe didn't always exist remember) can NOT bring itself into existence. (If this were not the case then things would be randomly popping into existence now.... and a pink elephant would probably materialise on your lap
)Okay so now that we have got those points out of the way ^, we are left with only one logical option: The Universe must have had a creator who brought it into existence.
The universe didn't come from "nothing". Everything in the universe was always in the universe.
Your argument also remains invalid:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Validity
In logic, an argument is valid if and only if it takes a form that makes it impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion nevertheless to be false.[1] It is not required that a valid argument have premises that are actually true,[2] but to have premises that, if they were true, would guarantee the truth of the argument's conclusion. A formula is valid if and only if it is true under every interpretation, and an argument form (or schema) is valid if and only if every argument of that logical form is valid. -
First, the Great Flood was right, sure, it may have killed many people, but that does not make it right. These verses answer that. "The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The Lord regretted that He had made human beings on the earth, and His heart was deeply troubled. So the Lord said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created-and with them the animals, the birds, and the creatures that move along the ground-for I regret making them." Genesis 6:5-7.
And for the record, Matthew 10:34-37 was actually talking about how He knew that the consequences of His actions included strife and division, and such a consequence, freely accepted for the sake of the greater good that lies beyond it, involves, in fact, a purpose.
So you acknowledge that God is immoral then?.... You seem confused...
Allah always existed, but we know that's not the case with the universe. The universe had a beginning (the big bang), and therefore it logically follows that it must have had a creator, because something does not come into being from nothing nor can something that does not exist bring itself into existence.
You don't understand the Big Bang. The Big Bang theory never states, at any point anywhere, that the universe at any point, did not exist. In fact, it implies that it's simply always been there if anything beyond the singularity is implied at all. The universe and everything in it is what has always been there. Also, you should try applying your own logic to God instead of blatantly ignoring it like it somehow makes sense. If something can not come into being from nothing, if something that doesn't exist can't bring itself into existence (science actually says you're wrong, btw) then neither can God. If you're going to hold that viewpoint then you must remain consistent in your conclusion, otherwise you're making an invalid argument. Everything you just said is contradictory.
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Judaism, Islam and christians-
the prophets of these religions were men high up in society.
Muhammad's family ruled quraysh, the most important tribe in Arabia at the time.
The Jews were ruled by prophets. David and Solomon led the jews.
Jesus's family were priests of temples.
And seriously, can we prove anything?
Also, all three of those religions are full of stories about oppression, violence and war, with a happy ending for only true believers of whatever the true of the trio may be. At the end of the day, who's to say the almighty Vissarion is not the real deal, hmm? I mean sure, he seems like an insane creepy cult leader with a village of followers in the mountains, but maybe it's legit. He thinks so. And so do all the weird followers.
Praise be to Vissarion!
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Judaism, Islam and christians-
the prophets of these religions were men high up in society.
Muhammad's family ruled quraysh, the most important tribe in Arabia at the time.
The Jews were ruled by prophets. David and Solomon led the jews.
Jesus's family were priests of temples.
And seriously, can we prove anything?
Barrack Obama is the president of the US. Strongest nation on earth. Surely he is a prophet, or even a God. There is no other reasoning.
/sarcasm
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Actually, much of the authorship of the bible (new test.) is uncertain, debated and even anonymous. Some of it was indeed written long after Jesus.
The bible does demean women from the very begging. Women were not made in Gods image, men were. Eve was created from Adams rib so she could not reject him. The choice to make women from men, rather than equal to men, is due to the archaic patriarchal concept of marriage being a contract of essentially ownership.
The God of all Abrahamic religions defies it's own morals countless times in Abrahamic tradition. Everything from killing children for speaking cruel words to ordering acts of genocide by his followers.
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The wage you get depends on which country you are in. Which country you are in depends on your citizenship and the immigration policies of other countries with respect to your citizenship. The workers in the developing world who "took your jerbz" are being paid less than you not because they are less productive, but because they do not have the magical citizenship. Do you have *any* idea how hard it is for people from the developing world to immigrate to developed countries? Those people are living on less than one tenth of your income just because they were unlucky enough to be born in a shitty country. Now, you can say "I don't give a damn about their plight," and although I wouldn't approve, that would be somewhat acceptable. But when you go on and use their working conditions as an argument to make their lives worse, I will call you on your BS.
The !@#$ are you on about?
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Go up and read my previous post. If you care so much about their plight, you should let them immigrate to developed countries, so that they aren't "exploited." Because what's being exploited is their inability to move to countries where the pay is better.
That's ridiculous. Quality of life is not a set geographical fact. The entire planet could migrate to the US and then our quality of life would all go down. How about people stay where they are and stop letting their governments not do their job?
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so tell me what is time?
and what causes these chemical reactions to occur?
you have any proof of that.
Time is a dimension, just like height, width and depth. And the chemical reaction is just like any other natural reaction we see on Earth. The Earth as a whole is a giant super organism that we are a part of. There is no scientific consensus as to how exactly life started, but we know it can be naturally formed, even in the vacuum of empty space, given the right materials. Life itself could have formed in space as microbes before coming to Earth. However, the conditions of Earth were perfectly suitable to form life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment
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Protectionism is literally stupid. It means your people pay more for goods which cost more to produce and are of lower quality.
You mean like how China makes everyone cheap crap?
I think a degree of protectionism is necessary for the sake of living equality. The benefits of free trade are benefits of exploitation. For example:
Are these "exploited" people forced to work in these jobs? Or do they choose to work in these jobs because it pays better than being a dirt farmer?
Of course they aren't forced. Nobody wants to be a dirt farmer, because they would make no profits and starve to death trying to sell people what they stand on. So they have to work relentless jobs just to make the bare necessities to survive with no realistic hope of ever moving beyond this social situation. It's exploitation of a persons situation. The same way illegal immigrant are hired on farms around here. Because farmers know they will work for less money, as they are desperate and can't get a real job. Japan does the same thing to foreigners from China and completely screws them financially under false pretenses.
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Are you an American? Because otherwise I could understand how you might think Americans are retarded. But if you are American, then you must be very negative outlook on your fellow Americans.
Americans are pretty !@#$ing stupid. How else do you get Donald Trump leading in presidential polls anywhere? Our education system is pretty pathetic and it's pretty much absolute morons that vote for all of our politicians. What do you expect?
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The proof of god can be seen everywhere.
That voice in your head what is it. Your consciousness but what is it? The knowledge that you are aware of yourself. This cannot create itself and therefore must have been created. Think about that one.
That paradox. The god in this sense can always create a bigger stone and will always lift it but if he chose not to lift it then he won't. Its a paradox for a reason.
As i said it is counter intuitive to have a never ending chain of creation and therefore there must be an end where there is something not created.
God has absolute power but chooses not to exert it as when satan disobeyed and refused to bow to Adam Allah knew he would do so, Allah could have silenced him but chose not to do so. Therefore we must believe that god is mighty but chooses not to show his might
All life is, is an incredibly complex chemical reaction. Similar to literally everything else in the universe like the ground you're standing on. DNA is just a molecule. A chemical, which makes up all of the information we perceive as being "me". It's the same as dropping Mentos in a bottle of coke and watching it fizz up. That's why you're born in a womb and eventually die, because the chemical reaction cannot indefinitely sustain itself and thus changes its chemistry. Every thought that goes through your mind is a chemical, the very foundation of every living thing on earth is a natural chemical which formed completely naturally due to the geographical and climate conditions on Earth.
It is a paradox, and that means it has no beginning or end. People search for a cause to things because we have a limited existence founded on cause and effect. However, as pointed out before, in order for anything to happen, there must be time. Nothing happens without time. Fundamentally impossible in every conceivable way. Outside the universe, there simply is no time. Time exists within the universe, thus your idea that there must be some beginning at a point where "beginning" is a completely non-existent concept entirely, is silly.
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My dad and the majority of my extended family are sufis except maybe 1 or 2. this is how they see the arab world now
Saudi Arabia. Corrupt false liars. Islam is open practice but the saud family is corrupted. Extreme and idiot rulers
Yemen. Hellhole.
Oman. Ibadi shithole
UAE. Fornicaters paradise.
Bahrain. Good view
Qatar. Good view.
Iraq. Corrupt sunni killers.
Syria. Great corrupted power.
Lebanon. beacland good view even about the shiites
Jordan. good Uni's
Egypt. migration land. Sufi heaven
Libya. Great Gaddafi gone shithole now
Iran. Damned child eaters.
Turkey. US buddies.
ISIS. good view on their military however bad view on their extreme salafist rule.
Hamas. Glorious men ruled by idiots.
Fatah. US buddies Talk talk lie down
These aren't my views but the Arab world seen through sufi eyes
I think you're smoking crack, buddy.
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where did those particles come from?
where were they before the big bang?
can you prove this?
Answer these and you win
They come from literally nothing and everything at once. Overall, it's all the same exact thing and it's always been. It just "is" and that's all we will ever know, because there doesn't appear to be a logical justification for existence. No, I can not prove these claims, but they have more scientific validity than God.
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First i must capture her, enslave her and convert her to Islam and have her consent
>Slavery = Consent.
lol.
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but you said it was physically impossible for something to create itself so who created the universe?
Allah Almighty
No, I said it was physically impossible for a tree to build a bridge. I did however make it very clear in my opening argument that existence is illogical and spontaneous, even referencing quantum fluctuation, the act of particles, physical matter, spontaneously popping in and out of existence at random. Which is the act of the universe in motion. Further more, I also argued that just because something is an unknown, doesn't mean God did it, because there is simply no reason (<key word there) to think a God exists. Finally, I also argued that naming God is just moving the goal post to a location that for all we know, doesn't exist, and that existence itself, still remains illogical and that one can assume the phenomena of existence is omnipotent with more validity than the idea of a deity. This doesn't even touch of my argument about how it's quite impossible for a God to exist and have morals, thoughts, concepts, etc. You see if God is real, then his will is simply everything at once. Not any specific thing. Anything that has or ever will happen is by default the actions and will of God, thus making God inherently contradictory to his own moral teachings.
You've countered not a single one of these points. All you've done is ask a trick question that can't even be considered a valid argument.
"Men create bridges, thus God created the universe" is an invalid argument.
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There i win.
The same way a bridge cannot create itself, the universe cannot have created itself it is physically impossible and we can assume it is a lie
next!!
Actually, let me re-address this: You're comparing an act of individual intellect born of an individual and distinctly unique self awareness to the phenomena of nature.
We know that bridge cannot build itself because we have observational and experimental evidence to support this claim. However, we don't have any of this for God. We can say that skyscraper is the result of a self awareness projecting it's own definable concepts onto its surroundings, and such a claim would be "fact" based on experimentation and observation. but we can't say this about natural objects, like a star for example. All objective evidence from observation and experimentation show absolutely nothing to support a self awareness projecting will upon the object in order to make it. We do know however, that things appear to create themselves without an self aware actor.
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There i win.
The same way a bridge cannot create itself, the universe cannot have created itself it is physically impossible and we can assume it is a lie
next!!
But it's not. I just explained to you how it very much, is physically possible. So physically possible, that it's happening right now, in front of your face. You're watching the whole thing.
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Why not just legalize drugs?
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I don't see how him having exploited the system matters, I mean heck it's a vote winner lets not forget. He has in the past basically said that politicians are corrupt that he has bought and people love the fact he bought politicians and abused the system and is now talking about how corrupt it all is.
I'm not getting this angle that Trump will nuke the world the moment he gets in. This is the man who has shown friendliness with Putin while everybody in the race has been talking about how they got to be all tough on Putin and do this and that. The only candidate who went after Bush for the Iraq war in a way many don't even dare (calling him a failure, liar, and so on). One of the few whose said the correct thing of "stop helping those crazies and let Putin put them in the ground. I mean being friendly with Russia is hardly a vote winner so it's not exactly a position he took for votes.
If I had to put my money on someone who may well be dangerous behind the button it'd be Ted Cruz who being a "true believer" might well blow up the planet to speed everything up.
His response there was it's a toy wall. I agree the wall is useless without other measures in place which I'm sure he'll also get through if he gets his Great Wall of Trump. As for America being great, tell the poor how great America is.
You are aware the people who discussed it were Tories and New Labourites (Red Tories) right? They're pathetic sycophants who when Trump wins the Tories especially will talk about how brave and smart Trump was and that they've now suddenly realized his thoughts on the matter of Muslims were on the money all along. Long story short who cares what American lapdogs say really? They'll be Trump's lapdogs soon enough.
Jeremy Corbyn and Nigel Farage who represent the left and right wing respectively both were against banning Trump (Corbyn even invited Trump to Britain).
Ted Cruz is pretty damn bad on foreign policy, yes. I highly doubt Trump would do the slightest thing to fix corruption. He would probably tackle corruption the way Putin tackled corruption if anything (which is basically to make everything so corrupt that people stop talking about it). Overall, I find Trump to be a spontaneous dimwit. It's scary to have people like that ruling a nation. I don't want another leader like Bush who creates ideas off the top of his head and commits to them regardless of future revelations.
The poor are what I'm concerned about, being poor. And none of the Republican candidates will do anything for them. I don't think Hillary would either. The only candidate I'd even entertain the idea of in this election is Bernie Sanders and I'm pretty sure he won't be our next president.
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why is it irrelevant. it is part of the debate of Imam Abu Hanifah rahimuhullah
so answer me directly is it a lie or not?
There is no way of validating such a story thus such an answer cannot be given. However, considering that no tree has ever been recorded as cutting itself into planks, and that such an act is physically impossible, we can assume it's a lie.
I hope you have a point here.
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so is my story a lie or a not lie?
It's irrelevant is what it is.
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it is not, it is my argument against atheism
Well congrats. You've definitely lost.
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I have a story. it is true
I live near a river but then the bridge collapsed in spring.
then as i waited a tree fell and cut into planks and made me a bridge
and then i crossed
Is this your argument for theism?
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Is a guy who sues his own casinos for looking like a shit the guy America wants behind the red button? He blatantly admits to using the flaws in our system for personal gain but yeah, he's going to "fix" that. He plans to build a wall along the border, regardless of the fact that one is already there and that walls have historically been useless money pits, considerably in modern times. He refuses to accept facts and think there is some conspiracy to get a foreign Muslim elected president (all while running for president himself). He claims he will make America great again, as if it's not already the single greatest nation on earth, but refuses to explain how he intends to do that.
Hey guys, Bush was pretty popular too. He also made what is arguably the single biggest foreign policy
mistake!@#$ up the US has ever made in it's history.But screw it. Let's elect the biggest idiot in America, that one mother!@#$er that the UK parliament literally discussed banning from the UK (it's pretty hard to be that stupid). Then we can make Americas second biggest idiot, Sarah Palin, his VP. And finally, we can invade Mexico and annex Kamchatka to expand Palins back yard. It will be great. America will be great!
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Common Misconceptions about Christianity.
in General Debate
Posted · Edited by Fox Fire
No, I have an avid interest in cosmology and probably understand the Big Bang better than anyone here. Everything that currently exists in our universe didn't just appear out of nowhere. It evolved over billions of years as a singularity fragments. You can think of it like taking a prism and separating the colors of sunlight into a rainbow. Everything that exists is just a piece or strain of the singularity. It has always been there because it existed before time itself. Time, is fundamentally a part of it, not outside of it.
The Big Bang theory can only be calculated back to the Plank Epoch, but at no point, anywhere in the theory at all, does it ever suggest that the universe in all of it's totality, did not exist.
And yes, I believe that existence has always existed. There is no beginning or end. The Big Bang is just a small part of an endless cycle of continuous "being". The concept of infinite is not absurd at all. Infinite is a well known number in physics because it's concept is very real.
Your idea that God is instead infinite is far more crazy.