[Improved API Access]

If you could make all the relevant war information (damage, loot, losses, etc.) available in the API, more people would probably secure VIP to access it. 

[Exploit - Alliance Bank Shuffling]

Any adjustments should primarily be an incentive to war, and not a disincentive to hide your money. The more that nations can benefit from war without risking catastrophic losses, the more war activity (and the more activity, period) there will be in this game. 

[The war so far - v3]

So when will the stats that matter be published?

 

Soon as someone compiles them. Yosodog is the guy that has done it mostly for the last couple of years. But it requires scraping, which is a giant pain in the ass. 

[The war so far - v3]

In fairness to Roq he's cooled it a lot with the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) talk. Chasing him around with it at this point is counterproductive, I think.

 

No one wants to think about that game.

 

For me, its just interesting to compare and contrast his complaints about the behavior of our supposed hegemoney with the reports of how NPO exercised its power in an even more dominant position. 

[The war so far - v3]

That wasn't NPO. That was GOONS and your side has as many people  who were affiliated with them as ours did including some major figures.  Think some of them were haikus, graphics drawing, etc.  iirc the Dionysus cat food thing was to get back into GOONS not to avoid a ZI sentence. Would have to dig into it to remember more.

 

I genuinely don't know, so enlighten me - was Goons not part of the Glorious Pacifican empire, a beneficiary of the pax pacifica? Those Goons era leaders aren't part of NPO's clan? 

[The war so far - v3]

How exactly? For a group that wouldn't want things to get boring, wouldn't changing it up make sense? I'm not saying you intended it, but you embraced it after. I'm pretty sure if we had a hegemoney, the same people who got tired of the other one would do something about it. 

 

edit: I was receptive to adding them to help balance out the bloc further knowing we'd more mid-tier support.  Anything would still be fairly difficult and it would be preferable to have them with us helping than on the other side.

 

Hey Roq, in the midst of all this moralizing to us about how we should work for a fairly balanced game instead of playing to win using mastery of game mechanics... Can you tell us if/how you and NPO were involved in the 'mercy board' on (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), and what kinds of cool lulzy peace terms you imposed through it? Just to start us off, we were recently regaled with the hilarious tale of how the mercy board convinced someone to eat cat food on video to avoid permanent ZI. I can only speak for myself, but I'd love to learn more about NPO's approach to hegemoney. 

[The war so far - v3]

I'm pretty sure for them they didn't think the odds looked good. I don't think Paragon went in thinking Proxy was a sure win, for instance and Keegoz has indicated as such. I'm pretty sure people leading those alliances at the time didn't think they had a massive advantage going in since they knew who they were fighting. The odds weren't as long for you as you're describing. I'm not robbing them of agency and they all knew about those structural disadvantages.

 

Oy vey, all you have to do is read their war declarations the multiple times they declared on us. Impero has a couple of doozies, including one really aggressively arrogant post he was forced to walk back in fantastic fashion. I'm not going to try to teach you the history of each conflict, maybe someone else can take on that thankless task. 

[The war so far - v3]

I wasn't sure how far you were going back. I think you're mistaken in terms of how long I've been around. My nation's start date is contemporary with Mensa's. If you're going back further than Syndisphere, that's another story.  You were enemies with them but they didn't work together. In Proxy War, you managed to just get Paragon alone and then in Oktoberfest just Covenant. That's what I mean. They never helped each other when it was needed nor at the right times. They were constantly divided and didn't have a set a plan and you won that way.  I can confidently opine  because I was there.

 

We beat them despite the odds. That's what underdog means. Obviously the definition of underdog is not limited to those who only lose, since that wouldn't be a very appealing descriptor. It's interesting that you claim I robbed BK of their agency in joining your shiny bloc, while attributing our enemies losses to a massive structural disadvantage and a failure to overcome it.

 

As for your presence, fair enough - apparently you well predate the founding of NPO in PNW, so you were present. Just not paying close attention. 

[The war so far - v3]

 

I get the propaganda thing is to say you were the underdog, but frankly that was never the case. Your only opposition were people who constantly questioned working with one another(tC and paragon) and never had a decisive plan against you, enabling victories despite on an paper statistical disadvantage. They were divided and conquered all too easily and we all knew that each score point wasn't reflective of fighting capability. You can keep pretending otherwise, but there's a reason people always tried to switch to your side.

 

 

We were the underdog, definitively. You weren't even playing this game then, so I'm not sure how you can confidently opine about it. Did you think we started out beating everyone from the very first minute? Were you not aware that we were variously enemies with VE, Rose, DEIC and UPN when each were in the top 5 and one was usually #1? "Always tried to switch to our side" what ahistorical nonsense. 

[The war so far - v3]

If you have all the best fighting alliances on one side, how is it not nightmare mode to fight against them?  No one else is going to "git gud" to a level of similar competitiveness and we just have to deal with the reality. It's fine with me if you want to keep fighting less militarily capable alliances, but let's call a spade a spade.

 

All the best alliances didn't start on one side. We didn't intentionally 'stagnate things' (nor is it fair to say we enjoy that state of affairs, we just haven't rushed to handicap ourselves to change it). The 'material reality' here is that our team, which was initially an underdog, adapted more quickly and effectively to game mechanics in order to overcome our enemies. You are trying to turn this into an instance of intentionally game-destroying behavior on our part, when actually we merely played the game. I'll leave the (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)-related irony of such accusations from NPO for others to point out again.  

 

I think what happened with BK is that they grew into a giant blob alliance, changed over to new leadership who lacked the personal relationships with their sphere that prior leaders had, and decided they could 'make their mark' by aggressively re-spinning the treaty web using cloak-and-dagger diplomacy. Their motives are fairly transparent, as is the complete disregard this BK leadership cadre has for relationships and their attendant obligations. (And good luck with that.) 

 

I'm sure for NPO this looked like a lifeline back to relevancy, and it does reflect well on your ability to bullshit the gullible. But you can't execute, and in this game at least you never have been able to and it doesn't look like BK has been able to change that. 

[The war so far - v3]

> peel off #1 or #2 alliance into your bloc

> establish total numerical and score superiority

> declare war against only grouping of opponents who could challenge you

> claim no interest in hegemoney

> ok

 

By your actions shall ye be judged. 

[The war so far - v3]

Does this include factors such as dropping military to down declare?  Or is that counted as a loss?

 

The Mensa/Zodiac side of the conflict is a lot of military growth/loss from score manipulation.

 

Just plain total nation score change. Definitely an imperfect measurement, but still a fairly useful gauge of war progress. 

[The war so far - v3]

Time for an update!

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CLq_ikPJNSG-fvmZFjLGsuuYv2YBfpHUOPjQAEYOTPg/edit?usp=sharing

 

Since the last check-in, Inquisition et al have lost another 150k score (how low can they go?) while the defenders have suffered about 45k of score damage. That brings us to 245k damage on defense against 763k damage for the offense in this war. This figure doesn't account for rebuilding, so the real damage total on both sides is likely to be much higher. 

 

Biggest loser by points on the defense is now TKR, at 67k. Biggest loser on offense remains BK, now at 146k. BK has now lost nearly 52% of its starting score. Without checking, I suspect that's either a record or close to it for a loss in an aggressive war.

 

Biggest loss by % is now Cobra Kai Dojo; not clear how much is damage and how much might be intentional demilitarization. 

 

The intrepid New Pacific Order, now helming its own attempted hegemoney, is at the bottom of the loss boards with only 38k (23%) damage since April 12th. That continues to be, by miles, the lowest percentage damage suffered among its friends and allies - and better even than some alliances on the winning side! This would be a great strategy for NPO, if only its bloc were winning instead of having its head stuffed in its ass. 

 

[War Slot Filling]

what's strange is the history of a softball approach to war slot filling, at least in public, followed by a severe punishment where arguably no benefit from violating the rule was received. 

 

I'd love to know who reported this 'violation', so that we can judge for ourselves if the nature of Alex's relationship with the reporter is irrelevant. 

 

Here in this thread: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19208-war-slot-filling/

 

...you find some people who are actually war slot filling, for the purpose of actually receiving a benefit and to stymie opponents, and yet ZERO punishment was issued whatsoever. 

[Ogaden's guide to submarine warfare]

We should teach a class or something

 

We've been teaching it every few months for 2 years. 

[The war so far v2- updated stats]

So what you saying is if an ally of yours was attacked that you had a Mutual Defense Pact in your treaty, you would not defend them? Even if that Alliance was in another, completely different Aggressive war happening at the same time? Please explain before my respect for you drops even further than it normally does because you are just the shit poster from TKR no one actually likes around here.

 

Whoa, kinda rude!

[The war so far v2- updated stats]

Well considering half the fighters roughly were ex-OO or tS side last time. I'm not sure they're exactly repeating mistakes if they have never done them before

 

Right? It means they saw the effects of all the mistakes from the winning side, but STILL MADE THEM!

[The war so far]

Yeah next time they should spread the love around a bit more, maybe skip Mensa and see how that works out. 

[The war so far]

"We" would be Lordaeron. I know you and your side would like to drive the narrative that it's just me and a bunch of multis but Lordaeron is full of wonderful and interesting people.

 

Not sure who these "multiple Lordaeron members" are either. Feel free to PM me names and logs, or just drop them on the forums since that's what you Mensa people like to do anyway. Take logs outta context and drop them on the forums to make yourselves look good.

 

Lies to his own members, gets them rolled, lies about it again, finally admits the truth, goes back to lying about it. Yep, the sound of someone with a story America would like to believe. 

[The war so far]

Do you have logs or links to prove this?

 

I don't know who 'we' is supposed to be in what Kastor said, but obviously I didn't decide to ride out against Lordaeron until after multiple Lordaeron members informed us on Discord that they had been given the green light to attack our applicants directly by Kastor. Who had also falsely claimed to his members that we OK'd raiding our applicants. 

[The war so far]

Lmao, if we really cared that much about winning we would have tried to sign with Mensa. But sure dude, you really got me there.

 

CF has the advantage of having been founded by the closest thing Mensa ever had to a pacifist. Granted he stole a bunch of our money and ran, but he's still our people. 

[The war so far]

You never approached me, or any gov, you just attacked. Then after, had me come to you, when I called you out on it, used that as an excuse that we weren't "humble" enough. And said you'd talk to us in 3 days when the wars had ended. After those 3 days you led peace negotiations with $500m or perma war. Then said the only other option was for us to either disband or have me step down(and you'd give a NAP).

 

So no, you didn't come to us, nor did you treat Lordaeron like you did any Syndisphere alliance.

 

#alternativefacts

[The war so far v2- updated stats]

WTF got no love in that excel sheet!

 

Sorry, fixed! Swapped you in for GOB. 

[Revenue dropped out of nowhere]

It's not a bug. He ran out of money. Your power plants need money to run. If you have no money, your plants shut down. If your plants shut down, you stop earning revenue from citizens and stop generating resources. 

[The war so far v2- updated stats]

Skill beats mass everytime. You have any net damage statistics?

 

Nope, this stuff is easy to do by hand. Net damage is usually calculated by scraping war pages (Alex admits that his damage stats are FUBAR).