[The Cataclysmic Failure of Swamp]

1 minute ago, Kevanovia said:

It matters when you are trying to reference these "screenshots" to paint a narrative that isn't true. The leaders in your own coalition said that there were no screenshots in the RON show a few hours ago. Would you like to amend your posts or would you like to continue to reinforce the current perception of your sphere's dishonesty and tomfoolery.

6 minutes ago, Ramona said:

Cute bait. No amended statement required. Refer to my last post

[The Cataclysmic Failure of Swamp]

4 minutes ago, Kevanovia said:

Please post said screenshots, because the only thing we discussed was hitting MINC with only two alliances (HoF/Cata). You claimed you have these ss, so if that is the case then you would know that it was only a 2 v MINC affair.

So go ahead and post the "screenshots" you used to justify your terrible FA moves. We'll all be over here waiting for you to post your "screenshots" that you totally have.

I think Ill decline to toss a source under the bus for your amusement and gratification. At the end of the day you admitted / proved we were correct (at least in part), asking for evidence is just a silly tactic to try to take away from the overall picture of the bs narrative your peddling. Ill be over here for you to wake up from whatever day dream your in. 

[[DoW] OwO Pixels?]

Off did not mean to hurt your feelings and force you to post on the OWF

[[DOW] Company/TEst’s 1st Anniversary]

AHHH yes this will be a hard war for you. 

[The Cataclysmic Failure of Swamp]

2 hours ago, Keegoz said:

Let’s start with how we got here. About 6 days ago, Cataclysm made the decision to militarise and its allies moved to a peacetime MMR soon after. Hand of Fate then moved to max MMR 2 days later. Cata and HoF planned to hit Mystery Inc that Friday at update. A war where we would have been completely outnumbered and out-tiered in. It would have been a quick war (2 rounds) to round out the year, and a bit of fun for everyone involved. We however never imagined that a new Swamp would form from just our two alliances militarising.

 

Ah yes, our fantastic mind reading abilities picked up on your intentions early on? Massive military uptick and ss of plots to hit us but MINC man bad for responding. As I've stated multiple times Clock is larger than MINC in essentially every tier, not to mention your mega whale tier. The fact if I take your word at face value, still negated the fact that we had no way in knowing you planned a smaller attack. Being overpowered (from what we knew), having limited options we went to the only other sphere able to help us. At this point go ahead and admit it, do you expect alliances to just accept negative odds? 

2 hours ago, Keegoz said:

As I said before, MInc’s move to form Swamp is not at all justified

Covered in all my posts. 

 

2 hours ago, Keegoz said:

when they continued to leak allies in Aurora, Weebunism and Waffle House

God this is a brilliant statement. Are you referring to before or after CATA refused to join minc and quite literally I quote "Can we just take Weeb, TCW and &? Give the others back to Oasis? Lol". Obviously we declined for clear reasons, and lets not play games, Aurora for some reason thought MINC was "to big". Weebinsm has just been following Aurora, I can literally count on 2 hands the amount of times they even spoke in our server. 

 

 

I really have issues believing you are buying your own farts here?

 

[[DoW] I Mean It]

2 hours ago, Agent W said:

It was a treaty that flew in the face of precedent on this planet. This is especially so when the groups who played a major part in setting those norms were the same people behind the treaty. Simply put, it was of great concern to me, not just as an alliance leader, but someone who, by burden of their leadership, cares deeply about the competitive meta of the game.

What? Can you pin point a date between sept 18 2021 and today that you took a radical 180 in your thought process. I seem to recall multiple conversations with you asking us to assist you (and Rose) in a massive offensive war against TKRGG. It was us who decided that it was overkill, you even kept pushing the matter with Rose to get us on board after our blatant refusal. Is the issue that only you are allowed to form agreements and connections between blocs or is it that they must be secrete?

 

2 hours ago, Agent W said:

While it appeared at first that this was a move designed to be defensive in nature, it left more questions than answers for me. Conversations started to swirl quickly, however, with multiple sphere leaders conversing with each other at once about the implications of this move, and what a potential war might look like this cycle. It was my hope that alliance leaders would condemn this kind of boldfaced move, and I am glad to see that community sentiment has been against the pairing.

Gee, its almost like when you ghost our rep its hard to get answers, unless you count your "totally in good faith" discussion with Oasis that led to exactly what you requested (MDP dropped), yet decided it was not quick enough for you. I seem to recall this same MO from Syndisphere days, glad to see you still have it in you!

 

2 hours ago, Agent W said:

After discussions with relevant parties, it became clear that such a grouping could be a threat to the safety and security of Blackwater. For some time during this peace cycle, various parties have intimated about Blackwater’s size, and how Blackwater is a threat. To those in the know, this line is quite ludicrous. However, narratives that are formed are a means to a political end, usually a war against who the narrative targets. Given this understanding, The Syndicate approached the world cautiously, as to not give the impression that we were looking to tussle.

 

 

*cricket sounds* This is a joke right, we publicly stated our treaty was temp, defensive in nature and the target of said treaty was obvious to you. Where is the threat to BW again? Ohhhhh it may be the rest of Orbis, but your threat is not in this conflict. Quite frankly id put money on you entering this conflict to avoid a greater and potentially less certain one?

 

2 hours ago, Agent W said:

It was during this time I was approached with the belief that Oasis was looking to begin a war with BW, and had been putting out feelers about such a move. This did not sound like a preposterous notion to me, given Oasis’ previous concerns about mini-spheres. When considering the veracity of this information, it became reasonably clear that Oasis may want to strike BW, especially when you consider our tiering compared to theirs.

 

 

I used word of mouth and rumors to convince my gov Oasis / Minc man bad**** and immediately created a secrete treaty

 

2 hours ago, Agent W said:

While there has been significant muddying of the water in recent days, the fact remains that Oasis acted swiftly to coalesce with Mystery. This is not a move anyone should take lightly, it signals an intent to put what is politically convenient over their ideals. Mystery and Oasis working together is a threat to the Syndicate, and, as my track record has shown, I am not one to call the bluff of the person making that threat.

 

 

Clock outnumbers MINC is essentially every teir, and on top of that has mega whales that we do not. Every other bloc is involved in a nap, of coarse we worked with Oasis! What do you expect, me to ring up the Johnson's. This is gripping at straws and over complicating a basic issue. 

 

2 hours ago, Agent W said:

but made our expectations for any de-escalation clear

 lol

2 hours ago, Agent W said:

It is my hope that this war brings about a reflection by the community on what they want from the game. From day one in my tenure as Chief Global Strategist, I have repeated my belief that it is the players that make this game great. That players have agency to shape this world into what they want it to be. I for one want a world where stagnation and laziness are seen as a problem, not the solution.

 

Yes I have reflected and decided I should have taken offers from other non oasis spheres to hit you seriously 

[[Treaty] Mystery in the Oasis]

1 hour ago, hidude45454 said:

On the first point -- I think we both understand the situation well enough to know that Mystery badly misread the situation and made a disproportionate response based on some breakdown of communication down the line or something, I don't know. While I understand your attempts to guarantee your own survival, my issue also lies with the fact that Oasis was willing to take you in and both discourage non-stagnant politics and create a megasphere, however temporary, that can threaten the safety of any sphere regardless of what words you regale them with or not.

On the second point -- I'm not exactly saying take it like a champ? If you were so sure about your evidence why not create an offensive coalition instead where you have more opportunity to make it a fair fight? Creating such an overwhelmingly large coalition, even if defensive, only serves two purposes -- either you intend on intend on dogpiling your opponent with disproportionate force or you don't want to fight any war despite most alliances in Mystery Inc already not having fought any global in nearly 7 months since The Last Ride. Neither purpose is particuarly desirable, nor sets any good precedent. Ultimately, I believe that you cannot be a proponent of minispheres without accepting that some inherent risk comes with no longer owning half the game on your side, otherwise if spheres clumped together near times of war we might as well go back to having a bipolar Orbis all over again.

Not a fan of saying that my opinion bends to each situation though. I admit my opinion skews more towards my sphere during times of war just as anyone's does, but my message has always been consistent. Quack deserved to get rolled when it did, Hollywood deserved to get rolled when it did. But in both cases, the force used to do it was disproportionate. Just hoping this isn't yet another situation where we see the exact same things getting perpetuated.

The argument here reads basically as 

> How dare you make a defensive agreement that's so big rather than a offensive colo 
> This grouping is to large for a offensive and would be a dogpile.  

Reminder* Even IF we wanted to reach out to someone other than Oasis, the NAP is still in play for most players. We are very limited on who we are able to work with especially on short notice, I would almost bet no matter what sphere we work with, it would cause the numbers to be "to big". On that note I am happy to be working with Oasis, as there great peeps. Point being, no matter who we work with, the grouping / colo will be big.

 

You are correct we were not part of the last war, however the other option was to add on to a dog pile, we had no place in the war and were not needed; additionally Gun and Roses occurred right after The Last Ride so obvs we were not ready for that one. I believe the correct decision was made. Sure we all accept the "inherit risk" of being a smaller sphere but when larger spheres target the smallest one, I dont think anyone will just accept the inherit risk, especially when the disparity is so big .

 

What's humorous to me is the "causing stagnation" narrative that has been stated a few times, this narrative actually made me laugh irl. The fact that any sphere or alliance or person can try to claim that MINC or even Oasis is the reason for stagnation is absurd. There is already a huge disparity in tiering and scale, if the smaller spheres fight each other we just further the divide and do more harm to ourselves. I am not saying by any means that smaller spheres "shouldn't" fight, I am saying it shouldn't be done to fulfill the satisfaction of other spheres and alliances. All this does is take the light off the alliances that actually are stagnating the game and politics. 

[Cant Change Member Title]

• Member Title
  Camelot FA
  
  
  This has been on my profile for a while, however I can no longer find / get to the option to change it. Can you remove it please

[[Treaty] Mystery in the Oasis]

2 minutes ago, Vero said:

Admits to knowledge of potentially being hit, and instead of pre-emptively making an offensive blitz, you decide to make a defensive coalition and expect people to believe it's a MDP and not MDoAP. I understand why you thought it was a good idea, but imo it wasn't. You just made yourself a bigger target than before in which potentially even more aggressors than before will be looking at you. Unless you just want to throw away the blitz advantage then be my guest I suppose.

I'm not sure if your referring to us making it public or us calling it a MDP is the issue? or both...., on the point of making us a bigger target, I cant deny the fact for a small bit of time out overall numbers will be "large", however I feel with the positions and beliefs we discussed in private and public with other leadership they will recognize (atleast in private) were not a major threat to them or even the short term meta. 

[[Treaty] Mystery in the Oasis]

6 hours ago, hidude45454 said:

Didn't seem to learn the other part though, where people aren't particularly fans of dogpiles or spheres that are double the size of the second highest sphere though?

Cowardly move, splitting apart only to scramble together at the first sight of something that might scare you.

This perspective I can understand for sure, as it was a calculated risk. However this treaty is time based and wont be around for a long period of time. I would also argue it isn't the first sight or "scare" its when valid intel was handed over to us and we saw the amount we were overpowered by. 

 

On that note the other option you are presenting to MINC (my bloc) is that when we see a threat that outnumbers us (the smallest sphere apart from the micro one) that we should "take it like a champ" because "being dynamic". If anything I find the fact we felt the need to do this upsetting, i have been a avid supporter of mini spheres and deconsolidation for a while now. However once again a larger sphere is targeting literally one of the smallest and we have a duty to protect our members we represent so our wishbook had to be put away. The way peoples opinion bends to each situation is amazing. People are mad the smallest sphere who has intel were being targeted by a larger sphere works together with another sphere so we are not as small and venerable. 

[[Treaty] Mystery in the Oasis]

Glad we finally got this worked out

[[Treaty] Treaty Name Here]

Name Here Treaty

 

 

<insert really cool preamble here>

 

 

Article 1: The Normal Stuff

 

1. The Commonwealth (tCW) and Black Skies (BS) recognize the sovereignty of the other and henceforth, in the spirit of mutual cooperation, agree to not attack, defraud or elsewise harm the other signatory militarily, economically and/or politically.  
2. tCW and BS agree to withhold any type of aid to known enemies of the other signatory. 
3. Any intelligence gained by a signatory, that affects the direct security of the other signatory, shall be shared immediately in private channels. 

 

 

Article 2: Defense & War

 

1. tCW agrees to defend BS using any means at its disposal from any unwarranted aggression that may occur against BS. In addition, BS agrees to defend tCW using all means at its disposal from acts of aggression against tCW.
2. This treaty is non-chaining. 
3. In the event either signatory wishes to declare war on a third party, a signatory may do so without constraints, however, the other signatory is encouraged to but not required to extend aid of any kind during that conflict. 

 

 

Article 3:Cancellation or Termination

 

1. This treaty may be cancelled by either signatory following a 72 hours notice.
2. This treaty can be nullified and voided in the event of a breach after immediate notice.
3. [REDACTED FROM PUBLIC POST]

 

Signatures:

For tCW -

Prime Minister: RightHonorable

Chief of Staff: Lionstar, Jeric

Foreign Secretary: Azazel

 

For Black Skies -

Alan (Guilo) - Commander of Black Skies
Silver Queen - Calypso
Bigboom789(germain)- quartermaster of black skies. 

[Inviting new nations]

I got a headache just seeing this made it to 2 pages

[[RoS] yes Greene we know you're stupid (og title : Greene : The tetralogy)]

🥱

 

Man if only we had a special section of the forums for these posts other than the alliance announcements section 

[What's going on? Radio shows this week!]

2 hours ago, zigbigadorlou said:

WHAT?!? Has RON let me down by not reporting this?

Still be hosting the show

[The First Snek on The Moon (No Whales Allowed)]

2 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

I like the disclaimer

😭 who knew this day would every come?

 

Anyways good luck to both parties

[The First Snek on The Moon (No Whales Allowed)]

1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

i cant wait for Cam to start militarizing so they can jump in in a few days, after we get flattened.

Shit he's on to us!

 

40 minutes ago, Micchan said:

Camelot always joins for the winning side so they will counter for us 

 

SHH giving away the master plan like that

 

 

 

 

*This is a joke, Camelot is not entering on any side 

[[ROH] Camelot Goes Treasure Hunting]

Hey good on yall, when we hit for the treasure we figured you would not do anything, im actually glad you did. 

 

Hope ya'll have some fun and im sure our members will aswell 

[Church of the Force]

20 hours ago, Kurdanak said:

CAT ASMR IS BACK BABY

 

CAT ASMR was registered as a trademark by Epimethus who created the trade marked brand name while in forced employment for Camelot and henceforth is owned in part by Camelot. In order to use the trademarked name please transfer 25 million to the alliance Camelot in politicsandwar.com also known as alliance 4937 by 20:00:00 6/17/2021 game time. 

 

but on a serious note; congrats guys and good luck!

[The Hollywood/Roasis War has concluded]

I am pleased in general with the conduct of all alliances on both sides, been great to fight with / against you. 

 

Enjoy peace and rebuild 

[[PEACE] "We were never at war..."]

1 hour ago, Cooper_ said:

I think you've got your history wrong.  TKR was the first non-allied alliance (outside of then BK sphere) to have official embassy/DM with Camelot.  We actually enjoyed quite friendly relations despite being at war due to a variety of OOC and IC reasons, particularly Arthur (and later Uriah, Viselli, and Aero).  We also were the ones who internally asked some of our allies in Quack to take it easy for a bit after we realized that the OWF treatment y'all got was a bit intense.  And during all of this time--we have always kept open lines of communication, explaining not only our viewpoints on how you guys needed to improve your image but also genuinely trying to approach y'all as we would any other alliance.

Alright, as i said prior, I will give TKR this. Your approach to us to us post war was much more respectful than many  others. 

 

1 hour ago, Cooper_ said:

The singular turning point in our relationship, frankly, was when you took over Camelot's FA.  I don't know your internals and decision-making process, so I can't determine everyone else but you've definitely been the face of all of our issues.  Instead of Camelot being a somewhat goofy and in many cases silly (i say this endearingly) alliance, y'all increasingly switched towards the zero-sum realpolitik reminiscent of NPO and the strategies you personally employed in BK.

On that note, Camelot wanted to move away from the whole goofy / silly identity. Our prior relations with TKR was mostly between you and Arthur, which ended when you entered a period of inactivity.

Secondly, I am the head of FA, anytime something happens I get pinged and asked to deal with it. I can assure you I was not unilaterally making decisions or setting policy. I think your claim that we're pursuing "zero-sum realpolitik" is a complete misrepresentation and frankly absurd. You consistently claim every request we make is unreasonable, regardless of the range of issues or our justification.

We came to you with a few issues that could have easily been solved with a few words from TKR to its protectorates. One request was the bank (which was returned), the other was for them to stop mass-messaging members in an attempt to poach and accusing our government of cheating which poses an existential threat to any alliance. I struggle to see where that's unreasonable and furthermore if that had happened to any other alliance in the game's history it would have immediately resulted in war.

 

1 hour ago, Cooper_ said:

Every time we have contact with you, it's a never-ending tussle to see how you can milk out more for Camelot.  From trying to seize tiny quantities of safekeeping with baseless allegations of bank theft (we made sure that would never happen) to threatening escalation on a mistaken raid (which you later reversed after you realized you were taking more damage than we were), you have proven time and again that there hasn't been growth from Gorge to Azazel and by extension Camelot.  This current conflict is just icing on the cake of what is a persistent issue with the FA style being used. 

Once again, I think you are decrying what any other alliance would consider reasonable. We asked for our bank back and it was provided, at least the majority of it and we did not really press the small stuff too much. I actually had to go back and find what you were referring to about the raids. After looking back at the chat logs it concerned a hit on our offshore, we responded in force as any alliance would and we were asked to peace since it was a mistake... even after your member admitted he knew the risk in doing so.

 

We reversed our position when we discussed the issue in more detail and decide it was not a battle worth fighting, it had nothing to do with damages. Afterwards, we modified our security-policies and abandoned 'strike first' for over a year.

 

So once again, I'm left here wondering what insane request we ever made of TKR. We may have a more reactionary posture but that's it.

 

1 hour ago, Cooper_ said:

The only ask we've ever made of you is to operate in good faith, and to stop trying to bully your way to what you want.  And yet you've only taken 7 steps in the other direction.  I don't think anyone believes that you care about consolidation or sphere sizing not that they're legitimate points from you.  You probably already aware that HW isn't the largest sphere by a large margin and that T$ is literally the only alliance that has any sort of principled stance on upper tier consolidation.  They're simply convenience to invalidly join what you thought was an easy war (jokes on you there since you guys have gotten slaughtered in damages) for a grudge about not fully getting your way. 

If you think that this is what a reformed post-NPOLT Camelot would, try again.  This ain't it.

Once again I'll reiterate, yes upper tier consolidation is a concern of ours. If you cannot see how this will effect our growth and potential security you are completely missing the point. Not to mention the formation of yet another mega sphere right after the other disbanded is reversing the progress we made towards mini-spheres. Honestly, I'm starting to believe you are looking for excuses to set relations back.

 

18 minutes ago, Adrienne said:

But yeah sure, you guys have totally "moved on" and you guys definitely don't "manufacture reasons". You're the pinnacle of honesty and integrity. You totally believe in the cause you claim and your DoW post doesn't reek of insincerity at all. This sort of petty nonsense is simply run of the mill for an alliance that is actually willing to engage in earnest conversations and considers the supposed subject of said nonsense to be in "the back of their minds". Keep on with your drivel, everyone totally believes you.

I'll be honest here, you posted this while I was replying to Cooper and it stopped me dead in my tracks. It is certainly not the opinion I hold or by that fact the majority of the government at this time. However, it does go to show my earlier point that our government was not pleased during our discussions on the issue, and at that time formed some uncouth and harsh opinions with the information they had at the time.

 

And to further my point to Cooper regarding what he perceives as "my opinion" of TKR: I was one of two government members who argued against openly attacking your protectorate at the time (even tho it was known to result in a total loss). Since I knew it would cement negative relations for the foreseeable future. At this time I'm not sure who posted that on our wiki and I am making an attempt to figure it out. Regardless, it has since been removed.

[[PEACE] "We were never at war..."]

15 hours ago, Adrienne said:

We gave you the benefit of the doubt when a lot of others didn't and you've done little but continue to perpetuate the same behavior towards us you always have, just under a veneer of niceness.

 

This statement is so far from the truth its actually laughable. I will give TKR this, you were willing to have conversations with us post war when others were not. However, my stance towards TKR is completely different now than all that time ago, in-fact I'm one of the government members in Camelot who has been routinely in favour of working on relations, when many others just see you as an overtly hostile threat.

 

I personally went out of my way to explain our concerns to you when a lot of the government was opposed to even talking to you after the last incident. That's because I truly believe there was a serious lack of communication on our part and I had to do a lot of convincing. TKR and Camelot have been long time adversaries and its not something that fixes itself overnight. We had actually made some progress until the recent two issues came to light.

 

Edit: On that note I believe it was stated in our embassy not to long ago, it takes all parties to work past things, Camelot has our part of the blame for how some things occurred but there is blame to go around. 

 

15 hours ago, Adrienne said:

We didn't cheapen anything, you did that yourself with your false claims of change and your bandwagoning onto CBs you rather clearly don't believe in.

I really don't know how to get through to ya'll, we outlined our actual CB, if you choose to not believe it then so be it. 

[[PEACE] "We were never at war..."]

P.S Forums being dumb, cant get bold to turn off

[[PEACE] "We were never at war..."]

Alrighty Ima take a moment to break this “silence” and point out a few key issues I’ve seen as a “general” political stance from our friends in TKR.

 

1. I really find your lack of self-awareness concerning. Rather than look at the facts, you have gone out of your way to manufacture reasons Camelot went to war with you. To clear this up
    

   1. Camelot did not have any idea that Oasis was going to hit only HM. In fact, that surprised us and left us with only one potential target (you).
       

   2. You were never considered to be a primary target of ours until you decided to link up with HM. We had other ambitions in mind and TKR was only in the back of our minds. Sure, we have had our disputes of late, and disagree with how they were handled, however for the most part we moved on. The only large concern we carried with us was your continued narrative of “IQ times” which we clearly told you.
       

   3. Camelot cancelled out of the larger bloc we were part of as soon as we saw the Quack cancelation go live, we committed ourselves to mini-spheres and we were made to believe you did as well. In fact, we took what we considered a huge risk, it is no secret that there are a few alliances left split between spheres that hate us.

 

2. Have you noticed how only a few people are rooting your “Cam IQ'' narrative on? Have you taken a moment to realize that people are moving on, and Cam has changed. The worst part of all of it is you took what essentially is the games equivalent to Hitler and dumbed it down to a meaningless narrative, now if the game ever needs to use that narrative in the future, you made it worthless and hold no value. Camelot is nothing like IQ. No matter how many times you yell it until your face turns blue. On that note I would stop throwing stone from your glass houses TKR….
    

3. Finally, to sum this up, let us not forget you created yet another mega sphere with upper tier consolidation, please do everyone a favour. Drop the act and own it. You created this sphere and did not anticipate the game's reaction, you miscalculated. That is your mistake to bear, no amount of false narrative building is going to fix that.

 

Now back to my slumber of ignoring the forums during war (because talking to my self is boring)

[[DoW] Here we go again]

 

A Camelot, Aurora, Weebinism Declaration 

Sponsored by Raid Shadow Legends!

 

On 5/24/2021 at 7:50pm EST Camelot, Aurora & Weebinism hereby declare war on The Knights Radiant. Initially we had a far different target in mind during our militarization (DO YOU LIKE MILITARY? Today's war is sponsored by Raid Shadow Legends, one of the biggest mobile role-playing games of 2019 and it's totally free! Currently almost 10 million users have joined Raid over the last six months, and it's one of the most impressive games in its class with detailed models, environments and smooth 60 frames per second animations! All the champions in the game can be customized with unique gear that changes your strategic buffs and abilities! The dungeon bosses have some ridiculous skills of their own and figuring out the perfect party and strategy to overtake them's a lot of fun! Currently with over 300,000 reviews, Raid has almost a perfect score on the Play Store! The community is growing fast and the highly anticipated new faction wars feature is now live, you might even find my squad out there in the arena! It's easier to start now than ever with rates program for new players you get a new daily login reward for the first 90 days that you play in the game! So what are you waiting for? Go to the video description, click on the special links and you'll get 50,000 silver and a free epic champion as part of the new player program to start your journey! Good luck and I'll see you there!)

However, TKR & HM decided to team together to hit Rose, the more we discussed it, the more concerned and displeased we became, the consolidation of the upper tier can not be allowed.