aaaaddd22
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Posts posted by aaaaddd22
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Honestly I don't much like the allegiance to the Pope myself (as been noted in the past), but if I had to compare the two while the Pope is also the leader of a "country", the Vatican is compared to Israel irrelevant as Israel is you know, a full blown state, and of course the Pope's main role is as a religious leader and not political one (these days anyway).
Ancient claims don't mean much no matter how recent said ancient claim was "recognised", quotes as not all recognise it anyway (as with many claims). I mean if we're talking such things then France can claim through Charles Martel that a lot of Europe belongs to them, Portugal/Spain can claim the other belongs to them due to the Suebi/Visigoth, and it just goes on.
ISIS's claim on Spain is seen for the nonsense it is because everyone knows ISIS cannot push their claim, were they able to then their claim would be seen as legitimate enough. Likewise talk of Jewish claims on the land being nonsense or not are pointless as they pushed their claim and have been sitting on it for decades. You seem to be getting very defensive because you think me calling it out as being nonsense means I think Israel has no right to a country, you would be incorrect. I think it's on the level of Ireland claiming Scotland because of the Celts or something like that, it's weak, but if you have the means to push it then it is legitimate enough.
Like I said, that is not "shared goals" with America. The reason I say wishy washy is I know the argument already, America likes Democracy (replace with secular, and other wishy washy things as desired) and so does Israel so they have "shared goals", but no it doesn't work like that as you could bring up say Denmark and say the same. The goals of Zionist Jews is the advancement of their country and people, nothing more (that is not a bad thing, the opposite in fact).
A man cannot serve two masters. If they wish to be Israeli/support Israel then they should go to what they see as their "homeland" and become a citizen, staying with the other master to try to guide things along so you can take from that master to give to the other is deceptive and unloyal and makes it easy to see where conspiracies start. There is always much talk of a Muslim Fifth column, but likewise there are people who speak of a Jewish Fifth Column too. I'm sorry to say but if a group (Zionist Jews) is conspiring to aid a foreign nation then what is that but a Fifth Column? By definition it has to be.
Of course I'm having to stick Jews at the end of Zionist above because I know full well Zionism isn't exclusive to Jews, many Christians are Zionists too which is I have to say even worse. Here for example it's the filth of politics, the blue/red/yellow Tories which is just another reason on a long list of reasons to be rid of such people.
Nationalism is a binary I'm afraid and they cannot be both nationalist for Israel and America, they can lie of course but it'll be just that, a lie. My advice to American (replace with other country as required) Jews would be to look within themselves and make the choice between their country and Israel. If they choose Israel then they know what they should do and go join who they perceive to be their brothers. If they choose their country then they are already living with their brothers and Israel is nothing but a foreign land full of foreigners, no different than any other.
You're conflating two wrong ideas again, the claim for Israel isn't driven by the fact Jews lived in Israel, but the deep connection Jews have to Israel. This isn't an ancient claim, it's an ongoing connection and yearn of Jews worldwide to return to Israel. This is something common to nearly all Jews no matter how culturally divided they were, the main principles of Judaism have remained almost exactly the same from Eastern Europe to Yemen & Africa, which is something that cannot be said for any other people.
Then, again, you're conflating two wrong ideas - I realize 'righteous' claims are decided by the stronger party, this isn't what I'm talking about. When you try to make reality objective, a lot of other crimes are only 'subjectively immoral' since we define them as such.
I'm not talking about a universal acceptance of right, wrong or claims on land - I'm talking in the context of subjective morality as modern humans accept it.
In that sense, empires & kingdoms don't have any long-lasting historical claim for a land they've conquered. The exact same applies to Jews, you don't seem to grasp that - Jews don't get their 'claim' for Israel by the fact Jews ruled in Israel, but an ongoing global Jewish consciousness. I've been trying to explain this is a cultural & religious connection.
Why do you define your country as a master? This analogy ncorrect, as I can counter-example with loving both of your parents equally. (Unless, you think, one is incapable of loving both parents since 'A man cannot serve two masters').
Even then, the parent analogy is flawed, since supporting Israel doesn't come in place of supporting your home country - this false dilemma you present is fallacious & insulting to many patriots that also support Israel.
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ISIS claim via the caliphates that Spain (among many other places including Israel) belongs to them. Logically if your old or to be more precise ancient claim is legitimate (lol at immigration before WW1 meaning anything) than so is theirs, more so in fact considering it's much newer. Most claims are generally old nonsense, no shame in that.
No I know what Zionism is about and no there is no shared nothing, it's goal is quite rightly the advancement of their own nation and people. You can add wishy washy elements to it if you like such as "DEMOCRACY!" and the like, but they're all relatively meaningless compared to the main point I mentioned. Were the Israelis all American and Israel was legitimately simply their colony then I could understand, but having "shared goals" with a foreign country full of foreigners that involves supplying them "endless" cash while diplomatically doing their bidding is just weird and only gives fuel to all those "Jews rule the world" types.
Nonsense, it's done no such thing. Comment's like Abu's are unhelpful but he doesn't drive the conversation and I was the one who mentioned Zionism.
Quite right, best to always remember that. Though if they mention they are Zionists (while belonging to another nation and having no intention of going to Israel) then that peeves me a bit, as "pledging allegiance" to a foreign country is just wrong and they should learn to have better priorities (and if any one has read my comments on here they know I'm not just talking about Jews). I suppose that'd be easily labeled "Antisemitism" due to the whole "unloyal Jew" thing but I have no qualms with saying it, especially as those who act quite rightly are said to be ridiculously "self-hating Jews" like being Jewish trumps nationality (it doesn't). I say the same thing about many Muslims who hold higher loyalties to their religion and even more absurdly their parent's country (Pakistan and such) and that doesn't have the same amount of heat attached to it, so I'd be a hypocrite if I gave Jews a pass on the matter.
"ISIS claim via the caliphates that Spain (among many other places including Israel) belongs to them. Logically if your old or to be more precise ancient claim is legitimate (lol at immigration before WW1 meaning anything) than so is theirs, more so in fact considering it's much newer. Most claims are generally old nonsense, no shame in that."
Israel has been recognized as a Jewish homeland for centuries, it has been reflected in Jewish culture, poetry, works of fiction & religion. Islam has absolutely not connection to Spain besides the fact they ruled there.
The bibilical stories of the Jewish people are centered around Israel, Jewish kingdoms, Jerusalem, and many more.
You're making a false equivalence here by confusing the fact Muslims conquered nowadays Spain(thus giving them a 'right' to it) with an emotional attachment of a people. The claim for Israel isn't held by the fact Jews lived there, as opposing the 'claim' you're comparing for Spain.
Zionism's father was Herzl, who was all about making a secular, social country - it's not a 'wishy element', the main goal he envisioned was a modern, secular Israel supporting equal rights to all its inhibitants. This was not only on paper, Herzl & everyone that replaced him after his death, sought legal, justified actions with worldwide support. In that sense, the founding fathers's goal was the advancement of their own people - and every 'democratic' or 'modern' thoughts are wishy wash. It's nonsense, Israel being a Western nation was part of the Zionist dream.
There is no Zionism without it.
Being a zionist has nothing to do with being 'unloyal' to your own country.
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Doesn't take being a "Israeli Supremacist" to support Israel. Israel's enemies are so terrible that a lot of people just support them on that alone.
Personally I'm not a huge fan by any means, I'm of the mindset to just be neutral in the matter and not provide aid for either side. Israel has decided to annex the entire territory for themselves and that they will do it gradually for numerous reasons. Their claims on the land can be said to be nonsense but when it comes to claims who is the arbiter on the matter? ISIS claims Spain is their territory for example which is on the same level of Israel's claim. If you can push your claim on land and hold it long enough then it is legitimate enough pretty much.
I will say this though, which is the Zionist element in America appears to me to be very... creepy I suppose would be the word. I'm all for nationalism but nationalism for another country without becoming a citizen of that country? Thats just weird though I suppose Israel is in a sort of unique position.
Absurd. Israel was pretty much the Jewish homeland and all Jews religious and cultural practices are involved around returning to Israel. The Zionist movement didn't plan an armed conflict by choice, they actually looked to promote Israel as a legitimate, world-recognized state and sought to do that through legal means. You do realize Jewish immigration to nowadays Israel started before WW1 with Ottoman participation, as well as British participation after WW1. The British mandate didn't just say 'ah lets mess with Arabs and promote a Jewish state here!', it was advanced through 20 years of the Zionist movement trying to arrange a recognized & legitimate country.
Saying this claim is 'nonsense' is the real nonsense.
This is not to say that Palestinians don't have a right to Israel, they do. The point is that Israel accepted to live peacefully with common shared borders whereas Palestinians decided to wage war against Israel, which resulted in the current conflict.
The only reason the "zionist element" is creepy for you is because you're ignorant on what Zionism is, its history and its shared goals with the US.
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Saying Israel is the aggressor in the Six Day war is like saying that if someone lunged at you with a knife and you hit his face first you're the aggressor there.
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It is not recognised as a Jewish state because there are Arabs living there and it would discriminate against them
I mean if America can break Geneva conventions so can someone else.
Bah are you serious?
No, it won't. That's like saying recognizing France as a French state discriminates against Arabs.
Israel doesn't use 'Jewish' as judaism, but rather as a nation or people.
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The amount of times you raid someone isn't how you war, we beiged them fast, quickly in and quickly out. If we started infra-bombing them then you could say we were warring them. (See:Arrgh)
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Palestine recognised Israel in 1998 at the Oslo Accords. Israel should retreat to the 1967 border. If not the Gulf States should move their forces into the West Bank. Of course US and UK would say they were killing people but didn't UK do the same in 1956 suez crais
Not as a Jewish state or a state for the Jews, they recognize an entity called 'Israel'. We don't have that problem.
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Is this guy dumb or what.
Israel does not and will never recognise Palestine.
A thousand Israeli civilians?! More like 40 IDF murderes.
In the stabbing someone in Israel you only hear about the Israeli dead how about the other 200 or so Arabs murdered by Israelis since August 2015
Israel has proposed the 2-state solution as the best solution since the 2000s, with all governments afterwards agreeing, except Netanyahu which said it was dangerous. But he backed from his position and agreed to a Palestinian state as long as Israeli security needs are met and Palestinians recognize Israel.
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I can agree with this. I will not say either are moral. A two state solution would be something that could be handled, but I would say Israel should lose some, but not a lot of land. It is stupid to fight now and it is too late.
Israel has already agreed to a two-state solution. Even the right-wing has agreed to a two-state solution, it's the other side that doesn't want to negotiate. In 2000, in the Camp David summit, Israel agreed to put almonst everything on the table and the Arab response was a civillian-wide revolt that resulted in over a thousand Israeli citizens dead called the second Intifada.
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Then why do they launch missiles? Wouldn't it be more moral to send soldiers in to deal with unrest?
There are no soldiers in Gaza, you can't just send soldiers unless you send the whole millitary to occupy Gaza(again) after withdrawing, or an operation with literally hundreds of thousands of participants from the Israeli side. This is the result of Israel leaving the occupied Gaza in an attempt to advance peace procedures. These didn't help, as Gaza just turned into a terrorist hotspot and thousands of rockets launched into Israel.
Mind you, before we even had the first war in Gaza, thousands of rockets were already fired throughout the years with no response from Israel.
There is no evidence that utilizing ground forces causes fewer civilian casualties compared to precision air strikes. The research suggests ground forces may cause more in fact. Compared to less than precision strikes you may have a point.
It could also be asked why Palestine launches missiles at Israeli citizens if the predictable result is an Israeli counter offensive that results in additional civilian casualties.
Trying to unwind both jus ad bellum and jus in bello in regards to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is likely an exercise in futility.
I would argue involving ground troops raises the civillian casualty rate as it snowballs the conflict into a war. -
Yeah, because Israel totally doesn't kill innocent children.
Not by choice, no. Israel does more than literally any other country to avoid civillian deaths.
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I love killing innocent 5 year olds too.
Yes, because Israel totally looks at 5 years olds and says - damn, I want to kill that kid.
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Israel is a prime example of morality in an immoral hell called the Middle East.
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Not to mention, Arrgh doesn't have the decency to accept responsibility for their actions, and instead try to paint a picture of a victim.
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If Mensa declared war on Vanguard, they wouldn't be ahead of Arrgh on the rankings.
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The mere fact a few members of a small alliance raided and caused tremendous amounts of damage, and hid their money within another alliance which knowingly kept it for them is already a justified casus belli.
The fact this is Arrgh is involved, and considering PPs affiliation, connection & relation to Arrgh just solidifies this statement even further.
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"Would you accept if i give you money?" ......never said i stole it and i would never tell you if i did.... or i can just deposit it in your account with out you knowing.... i still gave you the money....Literally.......is there Any laws in your country or anywhere else that you could site that could put you liable because of me depositing money to your account without you knowing ? or even if you would know that i deposited or will deposit , can you stop me from doing that?
What is the first thing you will do if you have money (say CASH) and lots of it? ...... Of course, you Deposit it......
Toinkz! read below........
You're babbling at this point. Arrgh knew very well, to the extent of warning them about attacking another alliance and the consequences of it. In a way, they already knew they'll be hound accountable even before anything happened.
Perhaps you could argue they didn't know the 'specifics' of which alliance they'll hit at what times. After PP attacked Guardian, it should've been obvious where their money came from. You should just accept the fact Arrgh messed up & now it pays the price.
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Finally someone with an honest answer....... I admire the virtue my friend... But, why give it back when it's already on your bank account and your not the one who stole it.........You're not liable in any way ..
By storing money stolen you are assisting the perpetrator and thus become an accessory.
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Good read. May Dio enlighten the cold hearts of the unbelievers.
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BK, you ought to just use him as a practice target until your noobs learn how2army
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Shockingly enough, there are (often)
betterboring ways to help an ally than by immediately charging into an unnecessary war. \o/FTFY
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Go read.
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Not sure why anyone here should give a !@#$ about other peoples bodies as long as they're not harming anyone.
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The real way to decrease gun-crime without banning guns would be to treat them in a similar fashion to cars.
>Title and tag at each point of sale
>Gun training
>Written test
>Practical test
>Health requirements
>Liability insurance on each gun
>Renewals and inspections at intervals
Gun training & tests will prevent unsafe use of guns - since accidental deaths are actually more common than shooting in self defense.
Health requirements will aleviate mentally ill people from acquiring guns
Liability, insurance, tag etc - prevents getting guns to people untrained, helps identify weapon used.
Renewals & inspections - preventing malfunction
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isreal vs isis?
in General Debate
Posted
"Without the invented (to be clear this isn't an insult, all nationalism gets invented at some point) nationalism of Zionism such a "yearning" wouldn't even exist, not to mention said Zionist were quite happy to settle down in Africa before they won the jackpot. "
The yearn for a Jewish nation in Israel predates Zionism, all aspects of Jewish spiritual life  culture, prayer, ritual and literature  have been suffused over the centuries with the yearning to return to Zion. The notion that it didn't exist before modern Zionism is absolute nonsense.
No one was happy to 'settle on Africa', it was one of the least accepted solutions to the Jewish agenda, Herzl simply put it out as that is what he has offered, and the backlash was heard throughout. Saying such nonsense shows your ignorance about Zionism and Jewish tradition.
The country of origin of Jews is irrelevant, seeing as anyone could convert, inter-religious relationships developed and general Jewish assimilation. Ashkenazi Jews still held almost identical traditions to Mizrahi Jews & African Jews. Either way, the US-Israeli relations are a different discussion.
The point about the mother/father is that your country isn't a master, being patriotic and being obedient are two different things. Jews in America have always been involved in the millitary, science and technology, as well as in politics. If anything, they're one of the most contributing groups to the country.
"Jewish nation" is subject to interpretation, since Herzl & modern Zionism doesn't want a theocracy("Jewish nation") but rather a state that is Jewish ( "State of the Jews") with Jewish tradition, symbolism & such. The ancient claim could be false and Jews would yearn for Israel - the ancient claim is merely one fact of many, and even if you've somehow proven that 100% of Jews have absolutely no ancestry in the middle east, they would still feel the same way.
Zionism doesn't come in contrast to nationality. I'm a Zionist and I don't even like Israel! (At least not particulary more than other countries)