[State of Orbis]

Cynic actually spoke to me directly about the leaks, so the info did not come from VE.

 

Just to give some context: UPN had a good relationship with VE, and we assumed with tS -- due to us deciding to jump into the Guardian v VE war, when they were the dominant side without a treaty and an obligation to. After the war was over we were on the verge of signing a treaty with VE. At the time I was running UPN's FA and some real life stuff came up and I wasn't online for a few days, in which Impero made the decision to act and the group of tS/VE/Rose came about. Funnily enough it was Rose's inclusion that was the most surprising.

 

Anyway our relationship with VE was still good, even though we understood at some point down the line we will clash, as a natural consequence of us being in the two biggest blocs/spheres at the time. However VE gave assurances that they appreciated the help with Guardian, and that they will not attack us any time soon for the sake of attacking and gaining power. Whereas tS wanted exactly that, and saw it silly to hold off on what they saw as the inevitable when they had the advantage, which was true because I knew our only chance of winning that war was going to be if they break apart -- although I assumed it would be tS/VE and Rose splintering at first. Anyway tS wanting to go after UPN as soon as, and VE disagreeing and wanting to go after the likes of TEst instead is what drove the wedge between them I believe.

 

In the end tS left Paragon, and we had a legit CB to hit them, and they were vulnerable -- but we didn't. Shortly after we signed an MDP with Mensa and Mensa signed with tS at the same time, and then the Proxy War happened, and while we did not enter on their behalf in the war, we essentially made sure that Mensa were not countered in it and that's a big reason why they were able to do as well as they done. I had my suspicions that maybe some in the Mensa community and gov didn't appreciate this, and moreso appreciated the likes of tS/TKR/BK/Guardian rolling with them directly.

 

After the war UPN was a clear #1, allied to the key players of all spheres. This is in and around the time where Pre would complain on the radio that we were tied to around 80% of the top 15 or whatever the stat was. Anyway we had reasons to believe that Mensa saw themselves as part of the "Syndisphere group", and that Syndicate were going to target us in the future. I took a break from the game again, and UPN had decided to proactively go after Syndicate to prevent them from getting us in the future, and this is the mistake that defined the game I feel and made UPN lose its position of power. Stats wise UPN was seen as some sort of hegemoney, even though the stats didn't give an accurate presentation of everything -- but for that reason I feel like the likes of Alpha and Arrgh decided to get involved in the conflict. Also going head on against the Syndicate ment that we lost the Mensa treaty, which to me was really important -- because I knew that we needed them onside. (Another problem is that the relationship was heavily based on just me and Pfeiffer, as opposed to the two alliances).

 

So yeah from my perspective at least I feel like not hitting tS when we hard clear evidence of them coming after us, then protecting Mensa from getting countered in the war, meaning they grew relatively stronger to many but not helping them directly meaning that they saw their other allies as closer to them, and then finally going into Syndicate head on, which further consolidated that sphere, and we lost the war in devastating fashion and were subject to big reparations, were the combined factors in the "Syndisphere" becoming dominant.

 

 

You thought you had the treaty agreed. A few of our government members who were pro-Syndicate decided to try and push the treaty under the table without consulting all of the government members. So there wasn't even an official vote for it. I can't recall the specifics of it, but I remember tS being in some sort of potential trouble in and around at this time -- and in my head it seemed that tS just appear during these times to try and get more support. Anyway my problem with it was that I felt some of the government were doing shady shit so I called them out in the government forums and Hans raised the issue with the membership, of which the majority agreed that they did not want the tS treaty.

 

The feeling was that we will judge you on your actions as opposed to your words, as trusting your words had been detrimental to us in the past. So when we put a stop to the treaty talks, but said we are open to further discussion and will judge you based on your actions, you literally attacked us in like a week lol. Which is obviously fair enough from a strategic point of view, but left a sour taste in our mouths.

 

And for the record the pro-tS guys who tried to push the treaty through without following the procedures and consulting all the gov ended up forming a splinter alliance after losing the elections and signed a protectorate with tS.

 

 

The government do vote on their treaties, after a discussion. That was why the tS thing fell through, because some people tried to push it through without a discussion with all of the government and advisors, and without an official vote.

 

I really should have added a lol emote to my post about cynic....you do realise it was a post in jest correct? We don't actually think cynic caused all of this. This is cynic we are talking about!

[Syndicate Declaration of Actually Making Declarations]

Like 3 or 4 days before the war started. Once Rose told us their plans, we knew you would preempt us anyway so there was no reason for us to hold back.

 

 

 

So rose pretty much decided they were going to attack our sphere and everyone else didn't have a choice in it? Surely rose would only have planned an attack if they had their allies' backing or did they just tell you what was going down and expected you to be a part of it?

[State of Orbis]

This isn't factually accurate in any way.  TKR let NPO get rolled instead of honoring an MDP.  CS moved away from UPN.  Sparta moved to your side (before the merge).  BK cancelled UPN.  tS cancelled Alpha to create the next gobal war.  That's just off the top of my head.  I'm sure there are more. 

 

The problem is like CS/Sparta, etc, they dropped treaties to pick the winning side.  Sparta dropped it's allies verbatim because they "wanted to be on the winning side".  I'm picking them out because I have the log.  I would wager to guess that alliances like CS and many others did the exact same thing. 

 

The only reason this war even happened vs. a total curbstomp vs. our sphere and then Rose sphere is because you were so open about wanting to roll Rose or SK.  They realized that was exactly what your side was planning to do and reacted.  Re-acted....

 

 

Can't blame a horse for seeking out greener grass can you? If you want your allies to remain allied then stop placing them in harm's way by constantly starting losing wars. What possible incentive does any alliance have to be allied to your sphere when all you do is cause events which lead to them getting rolled? Your sphere is simply a terrible investment of time and effort.

 

And kidding me right, we were planning to roll Rose and SK? I think most of our entire sphere wasn't even mobilised and only started mobilising after VE I think it was started buying troops. I think very few people within our sphere even have a clue as to why we are currently fighting other than the defeated from the last war being salty and attempting a sneak attack on us for revenge.

 

We have the leadership of SK openly admitting on this very forum that Rose planned this war from the start, We even have your very own diplomats in the alpha embassy on tS' boards openly stating that Rose planned this war but didn't bother to tell anyone else about it until a few days before. We have a dept official from Rose itself stating that their very own gov gave conflicting messages over a series of days with the truth being revealed on the day this war started that this was an offensive war Rose had been planning from day 1.

 

Quit smoking whatever it is you are smoking and come back to reality chap.

What, do you want us to fight with one arm tied behind our backs? 

 

I swear we just did fight with one hand behind our backs. Guess what? Still won

[The Knights Radiant Declaration of War]

So you choose when to act paperless and when to honor treaties? So Pantheon is currently paperless alliance util war ends right?

 

 

I actually remember you running away from wars when it suits you. What happened? Grew a spine when you made some new friends? Kinda ironic to be talking about alliances not acting on treaties whilst you have a history of bolting for the hills when it suits you.

 

Actually, now that I really think on it, I remember rolling you last year when you were at rose only to receive ingame messages begging me not to keep smashing your infra or you would nuke me. That spine grew really quick!

[State of Orbis]

 

Giving Cynic some credit, if he didn't come to us when he did, we would've signed a protectorate with UPN rather than tS and we'd probably be in tC by now lmao

 

I had actually forgot BK had been with us since way back then before even the FSA war. I was semi joking about cynic's actions leading to the creation of our competent sphere but now I am actually worried.

 

Was this Cynic's master plan all along?  

[Man the Harpoons!]

Salty you're getting rolled and we arent? (a)

 

Steve is forever salty. The specific reasons matter very little.

[Terminus Est - Captain Ahab rides again.]

Round 1 of oktoberfest, tS got rolled. apart from that, nothing.

 

I remember the first 2 days in the first round being difficult until SK or Guardian entered (Can't remember specifics). You are probably right though with that example.

[State of Orbis]

I made this argument earlier, but the thing is, tS was planning to leave Paragon anyways which is what caused VE to be pissed.

 

But if none of that happened, tS/BK/TKR would likely be in Paragon's sphere.

 

Are you denying Cynic, our savior and progenitor?

[State of Orbis]

We actually are having a conversation about this in the syndicate private channel right now and I think we have reached a truly groundbreaking conclusion. We mutually agreed that this process really begun when VE attempted to sell us out to UPN last year. As a result, all the competent alliances we know today really banded together around this time and formed the treaties which still exist today. What is so groundbreaking about this I hear you ask? This is all old news after all.

 

Why did VE attempt to sell us out to UPN? Well, it can all be attributed to the actions of just one player.

 

Cynic.

 

When cynic leaked sensitive info to VE, he initiated the chain of events which have led to the current political landscape.

 

So if you want to blame a specific person, blame cynic.

[Syndicate Declaration of Actually Making Declarations]

Partisan and I chatted, yes, and no, he's not lying. I'm assuming you're talking about this: "We're at war and this one was *not* initiated by tS. It was planned an coordinated by SK alongside a coalition of paracov. That in itself *directly* contradicts all the claims yo made to us in query when you tried to amiably part".

 

Narrative implies I'm telling a story, which ok, I get why you might think that, but I have no reason to. I told Partisan and Manthrax the same thing and I have receipts. I told them both we weren't dropping tS with the intention of hitting you, but that it was possible it could end up happening due to the circumstances and treaty web, and the fact that you guys fight rose a lot and with us allied to them, it was a distinct possibility.

 

Partisan is saying (I think) that the fact that we were planning to roll in on you with rose is incontrovertible proof that we in fact dropped you with the specific intention of hitting you, contradicting what I said in private. Now that depends on whether you believe Partisan or not. I can't prove a negative, other than to say that we've all consistently said here that we had no plans to roll tS until a few days before war kicked of when Rose told us their plans. You can be mad that we hit *you*, but you can't be mad that we backed up our allies the same way literally everyone else does and is standard op in this game.

 

Here's what I meant by the cognitive dissonance: Partisan says he has believed/known for months that SK was plotting against tS, yet he seemed to acknowledge that at least at the time, he believed what I had said in pm, although it's possible I misread that. Both those things can't be true. Either he believed at the time of our pm that I was lying about everything, or he believed I was being sincere. If he thought I was plotting at the time, why would he have believed me? We talked about a lot of stuff and it makes no sense that he would selectively believe certain things and not others if he thought there was a plot already in motion.

 

So when did you actually start planning to attack us?

[Alpha Announcement]

[Terminus Est - Captain Ahab rides again.]

I'll leave the dets to the eLawyers, but if you lose the a phase of the war, but win overall, a roll still happened. Victory or not. For example, TEst has rolled and been rolled in a single war way back in Alpha.

 

Don't think we have been rolled then I guess. Can't remember taking more damage than we have inflicted in any phase to  be honest. Probably wrong, I am too lazy to go look at specific stats.

[State of Orbis]

We basically have a situation like the mid 1980s Edmonton Oilers where all the good players are on one team.  I think we need like, an unofficial rule where good alliances have to form blocs with crap alliances and fight other good/crap mixed alliance blobs.

 

The only reason the crap alliances are all on one side is because they literally choose to be there. Repeated attempts at normalising relations have been made with treaties discussed but instead they decide to constantly remain together and attack the competent side over and over again.

[Syndicate Declaration of Actually Making Declarations]

Catchy, but misleading and hypocritical. Of course we need help taking down all of Syndisphere. You couldn't take us all down by yourselves either. Attack Paracov yourselves next time with no help, see what happens.

 

I liked the subtle admission of defeat though. If you need to bite down on a shtick to help deal with the pain, I understand.

 

 

I wouldn't know anything about defeat actually, I leave such things to people more knowledgeable through experience such as you and your allies.

 

Feel free to educate everyone about how it feels to suffer repeated defeats and losses. I am sure we are very interested in what a person or alliance has to do in order to deliberately lose a war because that is the only possible explanation I can think of for your sphere's repeated losses. That you are deliberately trying to lose because I simply can't understand why we keep beating you against all odds.

 

Actually, I am pretty sure last war we were at war with you and quite a few of paracov? Not that it mattered, we still won in the end.

[Terminus Est - Captain Ahab rides again.]

Yea I see it on their alliance bio, but I think it's defunct or been dropped or something.  That is the only explanation I can think of. 

 

Rather ironic considering your allies previously forgot about you for 2 months.

 

[The Chola declaration of war]

Actually we are not that chola The alliance is named after a ddynasty in south India; link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola_dynasty

 

So I was erroneous when I was pointing out someone else was erroneous? I can live with that

[Sacrilege Of the Gods]

MDPs usually dont leave their allies in the dark. We were the only ally they didnt trust to tell of the pre-empt...so maybe thats where the trouble begins, rather than when our declaration on rose.

 

[The Chola declaration of war]

Chola and tS are synonymous at this point.

 

Chola: a Latin American woman with American Indian blood.

 

Syndicate: a group of individuals or organizations combined to promote a common interest.

 

[Terminus Est - Captain Ahab rides again.]

Yes, yes you can.

 

Damn, that isn't very nice

 

What about if you win the war, take a large amount of damage but inflict more damage on your opponents than received. Still rolled or is it a case of mutual rolling? I feel like we are exploring something of great value here

[Sacrilege Of the Gods]

Second time you didn't follow up on an MDP in favor of one particular group. It's pretty blatant.

 

I know right? The horror of it all

 

[Name This War]

The Nuclear Winter War?

 

This.

[Terminus Est - Captain Ahab rides again.]

Recently you're literally acting like a 5-year-old kid. Is there any thread where you didn't say "WE'RE BEST, YOU SUCK" yet? We got it. Also winning war doesn't mean not getting rolled. tS has been rolled numerous times, even now BK, Mensa and Pantheon are getting rolled and I haven't seen anyone rubbing it into your faces so far in the way you do it.

 

I don't remember being rolled. I remember taking a lot of damage in a few wars but I also remember winning every war. Can you win a war and be rolled at the same time?

[Lol Avoid Launching Nukes]

 

looking like

 

[Syndicate Declaration of Actually Making Declarations]

Didn't say it would be by us. Don't care, still going to love seeing tS KO'ed. But go ahead and focus on it not being us that KO'ed you and that you beat us in our 1st war ever, where you got the 1st strike.. if that makes you feel better. Oh and you had BK's help too. Good job you & BK together beat a new alliance. *slow claps*

 

NPO will show you why they need other people to win wars for them.

[Yet Another Propaganda Thread]

10/10 for laughs, 1/10 for execution

 

Look at this poor soul, he expects effort to be put into making a meme. Do I look like a BK member?

 

Also