Fox Fire Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 No, I'm well aware of the dictionary description of sex and gender. I'm also well aware of studies who deconstruction our notion of sex, since it's a socially constructed and discursive term. You could also link me the wiki article for race, it doesn't mean the term is more natural or less constructed. If there's examples of there being more than just male and female (at least in all of the three examples I gave) then what's to say that having a gender identity that doesn't fall in line with the male/female dichotomy is any less natural or more out of choice? I mean as far as I know doctors, psychologists and scientists still don't know why certain people are trans, so how exactly do you know that transpeople choose their own gender identity more than people "choose" their sexual identity? And you never answered my other question. Why should someone be discriminated against just because of their choice? You're not born with a religious following, but there's still laws that protect people from not being discriminated against just because of what god they choose to believe (or not believe) in. Sex is not a social construct. Even non-social animals know the difference in sex. Sex is a physical trait that you are born with, much like the color of your skin. You don't just grow a dick if you want to be male. There are two sexes and a possible third, being a rare birth defect that even then, still follows the male/female dichotomy. Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vosunda Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 as normal the athiest like you deny it! look at this. homosexuals are linked with nazis as well: http://www.conservapedia.com/Nazi_Germany_and_homosexuality your america wont last anyway with your gay people. vietnam and asia is on the rise and cannot be stopped! homosexuals do not exist in the great vietnam! tfw no qt nazi bf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) So we should execute anyone who makes fun of people. That will show those homophobes!! Get real. Stop being a dunce. I'm pretty sure your school board will have a good laugh and scratch their heads at this one. Also, freedom of speech!!!!! You intolerant !@#$. There were a lot of points I'd like to address but this one specifically mentioned me so I thought I should defend myself a bit. I think you misunderstand what I'm saying: I'm am saying that the non-discrimination clause should be extended to sexual orientation and gender identity because it will be a "government decree" that guarantees the right to a safe environment for these individuals. Bullying laws don't cut it. For example, let's say you have a teacher and he says, "I hate you because you're Muslim and because you guys bombed France." The teacher isn't bullying per say, because bullying by nature is often repeated and habitual. While Florida does have pretty good bullying laws, those are for bullying. This is a different issue of discrimination. While bullying may be discrimination, discrimination isn't always bullying, and that's the issue. That is why the non discrimation clause exists: to specifically guarantee a safe environment regardless of race, religion, etx. School is there for education and regardless if you agree with their "lifestyle" don't you think our children deserve a safe environment free of harassment? Luckily the Muslim discriminated against has rights because of that clause. If the teacher said to me, "Alex I can't give you the extra credit because you are gay". I'd for one, probably flip, but I hope it would stand in court when I sue him. The backing the non-discrimation clause would further protect me and hopefully discourage that behavior. When an entire large group of people are not included in the clause, it can lead room for the courts or whoever decides the fate of the report to have to find another law to fall under a different "protection" we hopefully have. This petition is asking for the same explicit protections guaranteed to Muslims and African Americans, it is no different. That's all, I don't want to limit anyone's free speech, I just want my friends and family, my sons and daughters, that if they are born gay, they do not have to face the hatred that I have personally witnessed towards myself and others just for being perceived as gay. Regardless of what my school board thinks, I have to try, because there are others who are terrified to speak up, for the fear of intimidation and harassment. While this is sometimes reported, justice is often not served, and you'd know this if you have personally reported someone for harassment based on sexual orientation. It's hard to understand if you're not gay. I can't image the rhetoric I'm spewing sounds like, but I think if the tables were turned and being straight was the minority and that group of individuals were shunned by society, I think your opinion would change. god bless Edited November 30, 2015 by Alex 1 Quote -- Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vosunda Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 There were a lot of points I'd like to address but this one specifically mentioned me so I thought I should defend myself a bit. I think you misunderstand what I'm saying: I'm am saying that the non-discrimination clause should be extended to sexual orientation and gender identity because it will be a "government decree" that guarantees the right to a safe environment for these individuals. Bullying laws don't cut it. For example, let's say you have a teacher and he says, "I hate you because you're Muslim and because you guys bombed France." The teacher isn't bullying per say, because bullying by nature is often repeated and habitual. While Florida does have pretty good bullying laws, those are for bullying. This is a different issue of discrimination. While bullying may be discrimination, discrimination isn't always bullying, and that's the issue. That is why the non discrimation clause exists: to specifically guarantee a safe environment regardless of race, religion, etx. School is there for education and regardless if you agree with their "lifestyle" don't you think our children deserve a safe environment free of harassment? Luckily the Muslim discriminated against has rights because of that clause. If the teacher said to me, "Alex I can't give you the extra credit because you are gay". I'd for one, probably flip, but I hope it would stand in court when I sue him. The backing the non-discrimation clause would further protect me and hopefully discourage that behavior. When an entire large group of people are not included in the clause, it can lead room for the courts or whoever decides the fate of the report to have to find another law to fall under a different "protection" we hopefully have. This petition is asking for the same explicit protections guaranteed to Muslims and African Americans, it is no different. That's all, I don't want to limit anyone's free speech, I just want my friends and family, my sons and daughters, that if they are born gay, they do not have to face the hatred that I have personally witnessed towards myself and others just for being perceived as gay. Regardless of what my school board thinks, I have to try, because there are others who are terrified to speak up, for the fear of intimidation and harassment. While this is sometimes reported, justice is often not served, and you'd know this if you have personally reported someone for harassment based on sexual orientation. It's hard to understand if you're not gay. I can't image the rhetoric I'm spewing sounds like, but I think if the tables were turned and being straight was the minority and that group of individuals were shunned by society, I think your opinion would change. god bless I am gay. My opinions haven't changed. lel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitri Valko Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 This thread reeks of tumblr SJW shit. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Scandanavia Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 i am confuse was this not justa plan to let people who want to go in that bathroom becuse they are that gender, go into that bathroom Quote The Great Emperor of New Scandinavia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 For example, let's say you have a teacher and he says, "I hate you because you're Muslim and because you guys bombed France."... That teacher would be fired faster than !@#$... School is there for education and regardless if you agree with their "lifestyle" don't you think our children deserve a safe environment free of harassment? I don't have children. But if I did, I would teach them: "There are some shitty people out there. Expect to run into some". If the teacher said to me, "Alex I can't give you the extra credit because you are gay".... That teacher would be fired faster than !@#$. Even without this bullshit being added to a website. I don't think you understand that this is a complaint about nothing. Has this happened to you? Have you had teachers pick on you for being gay? I'm going to guess you haven't.... When an entire large group of people are not included in the clause...... Then why are you only going for sexual orientation and gender identity? What about people who like the color orange? What about National Socialists? What about religious people? Or people who have cancer? Or people who don't like anti-discrimination clauses? I can complain about countless things not being mentioned. In the end, it's just something to !@#$ about because I'm bored and the whole thing is in reality, a non-issue. How many times have you been discriminated against for your sexual orientation or gender by teachers at school? Regardless of what my school board thinks, I have to try, because there are others who are terrified to speak up, for the fear of intimidation and harassment. No, I think the reason nobody is speaking up.... Is because they don't !@#$ing care. If anyone is being harassed here, it's your school board. It's hard to understand if you're not gay. I can't image the rhetoric I'm spewing sounds like, but I think if the tables were turned and being straight was the minority and that group of individuals were shunned by society, I think your opinion would change. No, it wouldn't. Because I'm not straight to begin with. 3 Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 lol well I tried 1 Quote -- Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Then why are you only going for sexual orientation and gender identity? What about people who like the color orange? What about National Socialists? What about religious people? Or people who have cancer? Or people who don't like anti-discrimination clauses? I can complain about countless things not being mentioned. In the end, it's just something to !@#$ about because I'm bored and the whole thing is in reality, a non-issue.If those groups were inherently targeted by individuals whether it be legal recourse or simply your peers then perhaps it should be included too. I don't know of any specific group of people that have been targeted for liking the color orange, so that's why that shouldn't be included. Religious people are already protected (and should be). See what I mean? I'm genuinely trying to understand your viewpoint but I don't buy into the slippery-slope stuff. Major organizations and governments like the EU have instituted what I have described, nothing more, for people in the workplace and in schools. I honestly don't see the issue of including it, but I'd genuinely appreciate it if you told me why it shouldn't. And to address your point, yes I have been picked on, I have friends that have been picked on for just being perceived as gay. What you don't understand is that our system isn't perfect, and never will be perfect, but we can try to make it better. Reports are often ignored because of personal beliefs from individuals in the system and can even be extended to the ideals of the court system. What I'm saying is a clear explicit protection for this minority will hopefully eliminate any personal bias in any direction because there wouldn't be any room for interpretation one way or another. This thread reeks of tumblr SJW shit.Worst part is I hate tumblr . Edited December 1, 2015 by Alex 1 Quote -- Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitri Valko Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Worst part is I hate tumblr . So then you're just a SJW minus the tumblr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitri Valko Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Slightly better. Slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Avalanche Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Just glad no one mentioned Otherkin so I did not have to respond "!@#$ you, I'm a Dragon!" 1 Quote Beer. Damn Good Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayayay Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Just glad no one mentioned Otherkin so I did not have to respond "!@#$ you, I'm a Dragon!" I'm a Demisexual Microwave, stop oppressing me! 2 Quote Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutsuo Toi Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) I'm not gonna support all of those bullshit multigender pieces of shit that you force fed me to "Tolerated" on it just like captain Sweden who having a cuckold at the immigrant while they're raping his daughter and he useless to protect her just because Racist, Homophobia bullshit. You bastard has a lot of problem to deal with as Corruption, Health, Wealth, and the other things that will happen to your god damn life. Especially Trans-Pacific Partnership that will wipe your happy little face as a homosexual person and become the slave to the corporation communist bastard. Your life is okay and you're not important. It is time to get out Tumblr, stop acting like a total special snowflake and start a new glorious life upon you while you have rejected it, or fight TPP meanwhile it trying to ruin your happy life as a homosexual person. Edited December 1, 2015 by Howard Roark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spite Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Discrimination on grounds of sexuality or gender isn't ok, especially in a school. I don't see a problem with making a rule saying so, though it should just be common sense. 1 Quote ☾☆ Priest of Dio just because the Nazis did something doesn't mean it's automatically wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durmij Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 That teacher would be fired faster than !@#$... That teacher would be fired faster than !@#$. Even without this bullshit being added to a website. I don't think you understand that this is a complaint about nothing. Has this happened to you? The reason people are asking for this clarification is because there are no set consequences. A kindergarten teacher told my brother that he was a bad boy because "all black boys are bad", and she got a lateral promotion to librarian, same pay less responsibility. In fact, the position was made just for her. In high school some kid called my brother a !@#$ in class, the teacher sent them both to the principal to sort it out, and the principal just shrugged, said "Well you are black", and sent them both back to class. Why do think people want these rules, for their feelings? There are serious consequences and practical considerations for the people asking for this very basic protection. No one woke up one day and said "You know, I'm going to challenge the most entrenched, organized and hegemonic political sphere in America (the religious right) and the status-quo of a multitude of institutions, increasing my visibility and exposing myself to an even higher level of aggression, because my feelings are hurt." 1 Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjI4ROuPyuY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUUEHv8GHcE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durmij Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Discrimination on grounds of sexuality or gender isn't ok, especially in a school. I don't see a problem with making a rule saying so, though it should just be common sense. As much as I appreciate the sentiment, there is no such thing as common sense because there is no such thing as a common life experience. We are talking about a country where 42% of people don't acknowledge how old the Earth is, and where this happened. http://topekasnews.com/bill-nye-bood-in-texas-for-saying-the-moon-reflects-the-sun/ Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjI4ROuPyuY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUUEHv8GHcE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durmij Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Nope, this happened in 2000's Ontario Canada Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjI4ROuPyuY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUUEHv8GHcE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spite Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Well it is illegal here and certainly against school rules so I'm not really arguing because I'm passionate about it Quote ☾☆ Priest of Dio just because the Nazis did something doesn't mean it's automatically wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durmij Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Okay, since you're going to ignore me telling you that this does, in fact happen, lets go back to something else. If this is unnecessary because it's already covered and won't have any effect (sic), why fight it so virulently? If it'll have no effect, why so much opposition to it? Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjI4ROuPyuY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUUEHv8GHcE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Vietnam Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 so if people came into the school saying how many girls they have sex with would not allow??? then why is gayness allowed to promote!!??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 If those groups were inherently targeted by individuals whether it be legal recourse or simply your peers then perhaps it should be included too. I don't know of any specific group of people that have been targeted for liking the color orange, so that's why that shouldn't be included. Religious people are already protected (and should be). See what I mean? I'm genuinely trying to understand your viewpoint but I don't buy into the slippery-slope stuff. Major organizations and governments like the EU have instituted what I have described, nothing more, for people in the workplace and in schools. I honestly don't see the issue of including it, but I'd genuinely appreciate it if you told me why it shouldn't. And to address your point, yes I have been picked on, I have friends that have been picked on for just being perceived as gay. What you don't understand is that our system isn't perfect, and never will be perfect, but we can try to make it better. Reports are often ignored because of personal beliefs from individuals in the system and can even be extended to the ideals of the court system. What I'm saying is a clear explicit protection for this minority will hopefully eliminate any personal bias in any direction because there wouldn't be any room for interpretation one way or another. Worst part is I hate tumblr . So let me ask you this.... Let's say I'm a perverted highschool boy who just wants to go into the girls locker room. I can just say I feel like a girl today and nothing would stop me. Might as well remove sexual segregation in private places, like bathrooms. It's not that this shouldn't be added, it's that it's already something that will be punished by any competent leadership, especially if you take it to court. And I wasn't asking if you were picked on for being gay. I was asking if you were picked on by teachers for being gay. Getting picked on by peers is something that will always happen for countless different reasons no matter what rules you throw down on paper. That has nothing to do with school, it's part of life. Several hundred years ago, many children died before adulthood. Most children probably experienced death and violence often. I think children are too sheltered these days. Often times this leads to a false sense of self entitlement. In worst case scenarios, you end up like that kid who decided to shoot a bunch of sorority girls because he couldn't get a date. The reason people are asking for this clarification is because there are no set consequences. A kindergarten teacher told my brother that he was a bad boy because "all black boys are bad", and she got a lateral promotion to librarian, same pay less responsibility. In fact, the position was made just for her. In high school some kid called my brother a !@#$ in class, the teacher sent them both to the principal to sort it out, and the principal just shrugged, said "Well you are black", and sent them both back to class. Why do think people want these rules, for their feelings? There are serious consequences and practical considerations for the people asking for this very basic protection. No one woke up one day and said "You know, I'm going to challenge the most entrenched, organized and hegemonic political sphere in America (the religious right) and the status-quo of a multitude of institutions, increasing my visibility and exposing myself to an even higher level of aggression, because my feelings are hurt." I would say hurt feelings is exactly what that's all about..... I mean.... If not, then what is the problem? These protections already exist, even if not clearly defined. But even if we did throw them down on paper, that's not going to stop bullying. Some people are homophobic !@#$ and always will be. Countless people, myself included, ignore school rules and don't give a !@#$. Further more, what are we going to do if someone calls a kid "gay" or some homophobic slur in school? Kick them out of school? Ruin a child's educational future because he called somebody gay? That about as nonsensical as throwing people in prison for smoking pot. 2 Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Okay, since you're going to ignore me telling you that this does, in fact happen, lets go back to something else. If this is unnecessary because it's already covered and won't have any effect (sic), why fight it so virulently? If it'll have no effect, why so much opposition to it? Because today it's this, tomorrow it's attack helicopters, or a assurance that I have a date for prom, even though nobody wants to date me. There's never and end to what people want. And if that happens, fight it. 99% chance you'll win. 1 Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spite Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 If someone breaks a school rule you don't expel them, you just punish them the normal ways... detention or whatever. I'm not sure what sort of world you think we live in where if you call someone gay you get expelled. At my school if you called someone gay you got shouted at for the most part, if a teacher was in ear shot anyway. 1 Quote ☾☆ Priest of Dio just because the Nazis did something doesn't mean it's automatically wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durmij Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Because today it's this, tomorrow it's attack helicopters, or a assurance that I have a date for prom, even though nobody wants to date me. There's never and end to what people want. And if that happens, fight it. 99% chance you'll win. Drop the slippery slope argument. It's a poor debate tactic. Trans people are real and they are asking for very small steps to be taken to ensure their safety. The violence against trans individuals is well documented. The dehumanizing leads to violence, and clarifying that the dehumanization is not supported by the school administration is a very important initiative that will go a long way in terms of positive impact on peoples lives. As for the bathroom argument that comes up every damn time http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/03/20/15-experts-debunk-right-wing-transgender-bathro/198533 1 Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjI4ROuPyuY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUUEHv8GHcE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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