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Abortion ought to be abolished, permanently!


Edward
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It's not very logical to compare things like vaccinations, drugs and alcohol to abortion. There is a very firm reason why the government takes those things seriously: because people who refuse vaccinations can spread otherwise-controllable diseases to other people, which can often produce serious problems, and because people who are under the influence of drugs and alcohol can - and frequently do - bring harm to others, whether through violence or lack of control (for example, DUI accidents). It is the responsibility of the government to ensure its citizens are as safe as possible within reason, and to do that there are laws that control vaccinations, drugs, alcohol, et cetera.

 

Oh, but aborting doesn't bring harm to a baby? So because a baby hasn't been born yet, it is consider a citizens, until it is born? Pretty much what you're saying is that because you aren't born yet, you don't matter. Am I getting this right?

 

Simply because the government exercises some control over people's bodies does not justify extra control over women. They must follow the same drugs and alcohol laws as men and children, and receive vaccinations in the same manner. You are absolutely correct in the statement that, under the law, a women's body should be treated no differently than a man's - and therefore, since men aren't lawfully forced to give birth, neither should women.

 

 

It doesn't fix the problem to just say that if a woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't engage in intercourse - chiefly because rape is frighteningly common for women. In any case, the dilemma is that if you defend the rights of a fetus, you are overriding the rights of a woman; conversely, if you advocate for women's rights, you are overriding the rights allowed to the fetus. To me, it makes much more sense to respect the life of a grown, developed human who can fully think and feel, rather than a fetus that is not even self-aware.

 

I'm defending the "fetus" because it doesn't have a voice, and abortion is trying to silent the "fetus" voice. Now you said that, "to me, it makes much more sense to respect the life of a grown, developed human who can fully think and feel, rather than a fetus that is not even self-aware," okay, but this full grown human was once a "fetus." All of a sudden because the human is living, those after him/her shouldn't? Are they less important than him/her?

 

 

Put yourself in the situation of a female rape victim: you have recently been brutalized and sexually violated by a strange, disgusting person, and you've been mentally traumatized by the incident. You will probably not regain your former sense of security for years and years, and you will remember this awful event for the rest of your life, and very possibly have constant nightmares about it. Then you find out that you're pregnant - and instead of allowing you to get rid of the tiny fetus, the law instead is forcing you to carry out the pregnancy in full, and give life to the result of the traumatic incident. That is a very sickening, twisted view of justice.

 

It is important to realize that abortion don't just take fully-developed babies almost ready for birth and bash them or stab them or rip them apart. Abortion almost exclusively eliminates feti that are small and still in fundamental development - often before they even have anything you could call a brain anyway. That is the chief reason why you cannot point at pro-choice people and ask them if they'd be okay with killing a newborn infant, or an infant soon before birth. Babies do not develop a huge portion of neural connections until reasonably late in pregnancy, and until that bloom of neural activity, a fetus is not much more than a cluster of organs.

 

You also have to realize that pro-choice people don't like abortion. I think it is sad when a woman makes that decision. But that doesn't mean women should be forced to carry out a pregnancy involving a lot of pain and stress, not to mention years and years of commitment if adoption is not involved. It is not very logical to treat a developing fetus in the same regard as a walking, thinking, breathing human - we kill deer, cows, pigs, rats, mice, etc. on a daily basis, and all of those creatures are more developed and neurologically capable than a fetus. We don't find much of a problem with killing those creatures because we don't consider them self-aware and intelligent enough to suffer much; and if you are fine with those animals being killed, then it doesn't make much sense to fiercely defend a human fetus that isn't even developed enough to feel pain.

 

I don't know why you would compare an animal to a human, though. Animals are meant for eating, though some people choose not to eat them. Because an animal and a human fetus are not the same, I could defend the human fetus and not the animal, because it is a human! A person who is not different from me!! Also, simply because the human fetus is walking, thinking, or breathing yet, doesn't mean I can't defend it. Perhaps, if you and abortion advocate allowed it to live, it would be able to walk, think, and breath. But just because it isn't doing those yet doesn't mean it life doesn't matter.

 

In short, if you oppose abortion in favor of the rights of a developing fetus, then you are effectively putting the rights of a cluster of organs without pain, thought or awareness in higher regard than the rights of a conscious, active adult human being. Abortion does indeed end the life of what would become a human being, but we end the lives of countless animals that actively suffer through their deaths, while a fetus cannot feel or perceive anything. Unless you are in active opposition to killing any animal, then it doesn't make very much sense to place a fetus in the same legal status as an adult human. And for that reason, I support the rights of adult women to maintain their way of life in the event of an undesired pregnancy.

 

Again, you cannot compare a human being life to an animal live. They are not the same! 

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There are people commenting that it is the woman who is carrying the baby, or something along that line. So because she's carrying the baby, she has the last say with what she does with the baby? But wasn't it the man who got her pregnant in the first place? Shouldn't he the one who has the final say? In a relationship, the man and the woman should have a say.

First, why should the man make the decision if he's not the one enduring the pain and stress of pregnancy? He made the woman pregnant, but how on earth does that magically make him in charge of the baby that the mother's body nourishes for 9 months?

 

Second, if both the man and woman desire an abortion, does that mean you would consent to their decision? It sounds instead that you are giving politicians the decision instead of the man and woman who are facing the problem.

 

 

You know, it's easy for people to say let's stop talking about abortion, or that it is not your say in what a woman does with her body. But that's what makes us people and a society. We've got to be vigilant. We have to confront issues and not sit silently to them! If we should stop talking about abortion, then we should stop talking about drunk driving, then we should stop talking about what one intoxicate in his/her body.

That's right, and people who are pro-choice are being vigilant in defending the rights of women to make a very important choice regarding birth. Just as you see abortion as a transgression on the rights of infants, we see a ban on abortion as completely ignorant of the rights of adult women who think, feel, love, vote, walk, talk, and so forth. It seems very backwards to respect a fetus, lacking awareness, thought, and feeling, more than a grown woman.

 

 

Whatever people try to make abortion seem like, it is murder! I've seen videos and pictures, on YouTube and google. I've seen the baby hands, legs, and other parts of it. That just show you how that it was a baby, and that it was murder!

It is murder to eliminate a sac of fluid with scarcely a brain and other organs, which cannot feel or think in any way? Then is it murder for a hunter to shoot a deer, which can very consciously feel the pain and hysterical fear after being shot? And is it murder when you sit down to eat that bacon on Sunday morning, because a thinking, feeling pig was killed? You are neglecting the fact that many creatures that really can experience their deaths are killed daily and are no concern to most people - meanwhile you place in highest regard the life of a human infant at a stage when it can't even feel pain? That is anything but logical.

 

 

If you don't want to have a baby, don't have sex! Pretty simple! But don't make society pay the cost of your aborting of your child! 

If it was that simple, abortion would probably have little presence in the news because it wouldn't be a problem.

 

Unfortunately, rape happens, and on top of that, the drive for humans to engage in intercourse is extremely powerful, and it is almost certain that a given person will succumb to the biological drive at some point. Just because a woman gives into that natural drive does not mean she is suddenly responsible for becoming a parent and enduring a pregnancy. In other words, it is very difficult for a woman to just commit to abstinence and succeed for her entire life, just because she doesn't want to have a baby - not to mention that it isn't fair to make her live that way just because you find a fetus more important. The vast majority of women will at some point give in to the temptations of intercourse, and the law should not be waiting to punish them by forcing them to carry out a pregnancy.

"Bibant, quoniam edere nolunt." ~ "Let them drink, since they do not wish to eat."

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Oh, but aborting doesn't bring harm to a baby? So because a baby hasn't been born yet, it is consider a citizens, until it is born? Pretty much what you're saying is that because you aren't born yet, you don't matter. Am I getting this right?

It does bring harm to the baby. But forcing women to carry out pregnancies without exception brings physical and psychological harm to the women who have to endure that.

 

I never said that a baby doesn't matter. What I'm saying is that the rights of an adult woman should come before the rights of a fetus which cannot think or feel. If you are pro-life, then you are placing the rights of that fetus in higher regard than a grown woman, and that is a very twisted and unfair prioritization.

 

 

I'm defending the "fetus" because it doesn't have a voice, and abortion is trying to silent the "fetus" voice. Now you said that, "to me, it makes much more sense to respect the life of a grown, developed human who can fully think and feel, rather than a fetus that is not even self-aware," okay, but this full grown human was once a "fetus." All of a sudden because the human is living, those after him/her shouldn't? Are they less important than him/her?

Feti don't have a voice because they can't think, feel, or basically do anything that would warrant their having special rights under the law. You are correct that grown people were once feti; but again, when you consider abortion, you are comparing the rights of a human who is no longer a fetus and is now capable of self-awareness, pain, etc. and a fetus that remains in development.

 

The reason women's rights should come first is because, as adults, they already have a life they are living - they have friends, family, a social life, goals, desires, et cetera. A fetus would eventually reach that point, but at the stage when abortion is carried out, the fetus is not capable of thinking or perceiving anything. Because of that, it is very unfair to push the rights of women to the side and jeopardize their lifestyle simply to save the potential of a fetus.

 

 

I don't know why you would compare an animal to a human, though. Animals are meant for eating, though some people choose not to eat them. Because an animal and a human fetus are not the same, I could defend the human fetus and not the animal, because it is a human! A person who is not different from me!! Also, simply because the human fetus is walking, thinking, or breathing yet, doesn't mean I can't defend it. Perhaps, if you and abortion advocate allowed it to live, it would be able to walk, think, and breath. But just because it isn't doing those yet doesn't mean it life doesn't matter.

Because animals too feel pain and fear, think and love and want, and perceive the world around them. They suffer through the deaths that humans give to them, whereas an aborted fetus thinks and feels nothing in the operation.

 

Where on earth do you get the idea that animals are "meant for eating?" The Bible? That seems to me like a very foolish excuse for brushing conscious animals to the side in favor of feti. Tell me, then - what sets a fetus apart from an animal? Humans are intelligent, but we too are animals, simply of a different type. Just because we are smart does not mean that humans should, by default, be placed in a higher regard than animals.

 

It doesn't make any sense to "give voice" to feti that cannot even feel or perceive an abortion, while you have no concern with conscious, thinking animals that are very much aware of their pain and death.

 

 

Again, you cannot compare a human being life to an animal live. They are not the same!

And here's the big question: why? Because we're smarter? Because the Bible says so? Since we build cities instead of beaver dams, it's okay for animals to suffer for our sake, but it's criminal for a fetus to be eliminated? That is extremely flawed logic, and it is once again unfair that you place in higher regard a fetus that cannot even suffer from its death than an animal that experiences fear and pain and very clearly suffers through its death at the hands of humans.

"Bibant, quoniam edere nolunt." ~ "Let them drink, since they do not wish to eat."

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Abortion should be legal world wide. Don't like it, don't do it. 

 

 

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What kind of "pro life" logic is that? "Save one life today so billions can die tomorrow?" Sounds legit. 

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So overpopulation huh? Let me tell you a few things about the world. One: It used to be much hotter than it is today. Humans have very little affect on the Earth's atmosphere, if we did then we should have all drowned during the Industrial Revolution. Two: Overpopulation is not possible. Once enough of a species is in an area to where the area can't support it then the area would reach its carrying capacity. So therefore we can't overpopulate the Earth. So if you believe we can affect this planet's atmosphere please sit down and have a nice long conversation with those that can, a volcano. We are like little bugs crawling on our host. If Earth wanted us gone we would be gone. We cannot kill the planet but it sure can kill us.

 

(That being said I am not against abortion)

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So overpopulation huh? Let me tell you a few things about the world. One: It used to be much hotter than it is today. Humans have very little affect on the Earth's atmosphere, if we did then we should have all drowned during the Industrial Revolution. Two: Overpopulation is not possible. Once enough of a species is in an area to where the area can't support it then the area would reach its carrying capacity. So therefore we can't overpopulate the Earth. So if you believe we can affect this planet's atmosphere please sit down and have a nice long conversation with those that can, a volcano. We are like little bugs crawling on our host. If Earth wanted us gone we would be gone. We cannot kill the planet but it sure can kill us.

 

(That being said I am not against abortion)

Humans have a very large impact on the atmosphere. This is not only proven mathematically, but easy to understand. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change#Human_influences

 

Overpopulation is very possible. I'm not sure where you get the idea that people will magically stop reproducing after a certain limit. The Earth has already, arguably passed it's carrying limit and the population is still increasing far faster than it ever has been. It used to take thousands of years to get to 200,000,000 people. Now it takes just a few years.

When a species overpopulates it's habitat, it uses up all available resources, kills off all available prey, and then dies off because there is nothing left to support it's survival. What you're implying is the exact opposite of what science has proven time after time. 

A recent study by NASA and other experts has proven that humans are causing the next mass extinction. But it doesn't end there. We are also using up ground water, oil and other resources faster than the earth can naturally replace them. But it keeps going. The explosion of agriculture, GMOs and the industrial revolution has led to an unsustainable world where we now have billions of people alive that can only exist because of oil and ever expanding growth in a finite world. And those are just a few aspects of a steady trend that scientists have been observing for decades. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation

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The debate thread is pretty funny because everyone knows people don't change. :P

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Humans cannot create anything out of nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding onto something. After all, humans are not gods.

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BTW it's actually regularly cold compared to other points in history so a little warming is overdue. :D

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Technically we're coming out of a small ice age 

Edited by Kyubey
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Humans cannot create anything out of nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding onto something. After all, humans are not gods.

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LOL we need a global warming thread. Personally I believe that we do affect the temperature but there is no evidence as to how much of an overall effect it has.

Humans cannot create anything out of nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding onto something. After all, humans are not gods.

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Humans have a very large impact on the atmosphere. This is not only proven mathematically, but easy to understand. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change#Human_influences

 

Overpopulation is very possible. I'm not sure where you get the idea that people will magically stop reproducing after a certain limit. The Earth has already, arguably passed it's carrying limit and the population is still increasing far faster than it ever has been. It used to take thousands of years to get to 200,000,000 people. Now it takes just a few years.

When a species overpopulates it's habitat, it uses up all available resources, kills off all available prey, and then dies off because there is nothing left to support it's survival. What you're implying is the exact opposite of what science has proven time after time. 

A recent study by NASA and other experts has proven that humans are causing the next mass extinction. But it doesn't end there. We are also using up ground water, oil and other resources faster than the earth can naturally replace them. But it keeps going. The explosion of agriculture, GMOs and the industrial revolution has led to an unsustainable world where we now have billions of people alive that can only exist because of oil and ever expanding growth in a finite world. And those are just a few aspects of a steady trend that scientists have been observing for decades. 

First off, both of those Wikipedia links had at least one "Citation needed." 

 

Second, children are seen as a (financial) burden in the first developed world. In the third undeveloped world, they are seen as an improvement to quality of life (helping when the parents are too old). If/When we finally get Africa and the Middle East caught up, then they won't reproduce as much as they do. (I said "If" because my cousin takes mission trips to Africa and they apparently don't like how we have to plan stuff weeks and months in advance as opposed to living day by day) 

 

Third, oil is temporary. We used to use wood, then coal, and now oil. We will find a new resource before we run out. Just like we always have. The only difference is we have more researchers. 

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First off, both of those Wikipedia links had at least one "Citation needed." 

 

Second, children are seen as a (financial) burden in the first developed world. In the third undeveloped world, they are seen as an improvement to quality of life (helping when the parents are too old). If/When we finally get Africa and the Middle East caught up, then they won't reproduce as much as they do. (I said "If" because my cousin takes mission trips to Africa and they apparently don't like how we have to plan stuff weeks and months in advance as opposed to living day by day) 

 

Third, oil is temporary. We used to use wood, then coal, and now oil. We will find a new resource before we run out. Just like we always have. The only difference is we have more researchers. 

First off, most wiki articles have a [citation needed]. There are countless citations for countless things and aspects of things on those pages. Point in tact.

 

Second, it's actually the other way around. Children in the developed world are a necessity while children in the undeveloped word are burdens. 

Proof: Japan vs North Korea. Japan has a decreasing population which within the next generation is going to kill their economy. North Korea has a growing population but most people cannot afford to raise their kids, so they abandon them. Which brings me to another reason why we are all pretty much screwed. Slowing population growth means slowing economic growth. The entire global system relies on infinite growth in a finite world. It can do nothing but end in catastrophe no matter what you do and/or think about it. 

Sad but true. I'd prefer to be optimistic about this but being an optimist on this subject is about the equivalent of being plain ignorant. 

 

Third, I'm highly skeptical. For starters, we still use wood. Not only do we still use wood, we use more of it than ever before. We still use coal, more of it than ever, and we will probably always use oil because we use oil to make basically every modern day item we use on a daily basis. Whatever device you are using to visit this website was made possible only by using oil. Oil is in everything from your car to your house to your cellphone. 

You say we will find something new before we run out, and we probably will. But that doesn't mean we will stop being reliant on oil, just like we haven't stopped being reliant on deforestation. There is simply no replacement for oil in the foreseeable future and there likely never will be because you can't turn sunlight into plastic.

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US+Population+Growth+Rate.png

This shows that population GROWTH has gone down in the United states in the past few years making abortion unneeded to stop the "population issue" as the growth is mainly from African countries which don't have birth control. This shows that abortion is not needed, it's educational services provided to women in the first world. :P

Edited by Kyubey

Humans cannot create anything out of nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding onto something. After all, humans are not gods.

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US+Population+Growth+Rate.png

This shows that population GROWTH has gone down in the United states in the past few years making abortion unneeded to stop the "population issue" as the growth is mainly from African countries which don't have birth control. This shows that abortion is not needed, it's educational services provided to women in the first world. :P

Growth has gone down since the baby boomer generation, but the population is still growing at about 2% annually, give or take. 

Lowering growth rates might be an improvement, and I completely agree that the major growth comes from undeveloped nations, but that doesn't mean the overall populations of developed nations are not growing.

As for abortion being "unneeded", well, anything is unneeded. Humans in general aren't "needed" in the big scheme of things. 

Not trying to go to the darkest corner of the room but...... Looking back on my childhood, I feel like abortion is very appropriate in many cases. If not for the parent, for the child.

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Second, it's actually the other way around. Children in the developed world are a necessity while children in the undeveloped word are burdens. 

Proof: Japan vs North Korea. Japan has a decreasing population which within the next generation is going to kill their economy. North Korea has a growing population but most people cannot afford to raise their kids, so they abandon them. Which brings me to another reason why we are all pretty much screwed. Slowing population growth means slowing economic growth. The entire global system relies on infinite growth in a finite world. It can do nothing but end in catastrophe no matter what you do and/or think about it. 

Sad but true. I'd prefer to be optimistic about this but being an optimist on this subject is about the equivalent of being plain ignorant. 

 

Third, I'm highly skeptical. For starters, we still use wood. Not only do we still use wood, we use more of it than ever before. We still use coal, more of it than ever, and we will probably always use oil because we use oil to make basically every modern day item we use on a daily basis. Whatever device you are using to visit this website was made possible only by using oil. Oil is in everything from your car to your house to your cellphone. 

You say we will find something new before we run out, and we probably will. But that doesn't mean we will stop being reliant on oil, just like we haven't stopped being reliant on deforestation. There is simply no replacement for oil in the foreseeable future and there likely never will be because you can't turn sunlight into plastic.

North Korea is pretty developed, despite what the internet says. I mean, unless this isn't developed. The  only thing that we don't support is their dictatorship, communism, and labor camps. 

Pyongyang-North-Korea-tou-453952.jpg

 

"We use more of it than ever." We also have a higher population than ever. How much wood do you use compared to back before heaters used electricity? And what is reforestation? 

 

"more than ever." Again, how much coal per person, though? Maybe a lot in China where they have an abundant supply, but not nearly as much here. 

 

What is bioplastic? 

Sure, we will have to make more plants, but does my phone case, and laptop case need to be made of plastic? Sure it would be more expensive if it is made from some sort of metal now, but the free market will respond. Supply and demand. Oil companies will increase the price of oil because there is less of a supply. Thus making the plastic more expensive and companies that need plastic will search for a cheaper material. "But metal isn't renewable." The same process will happen. 

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Growth has gone down since the baby boomer generation, but the population is still growing at about 2% annually, give or take. 

Lowering growth rates might be an improvement, and I completely agree that the major growth comes from undeveloped nations, but that doesn't mean the overall populations of developed nations are not growing.

As for abortion being "unneeded", well, anything is unneeded. Humans in general aren't "needed" in the big scheme of things. 

Not trying to go to the darkest corner of the room but...... Looking back on my childhood, I feel like abortion is very appropriate in many cases. If not for the parent, for the child.

Of course the world population is going to grow I mean people have babies and people are living longer however a the birth rates are going down. Also, many developing nations in Africa are starting to industrialize and get into the world economy and I believe that the birth rates will go down dramatically in the next 50 years but I guess we'll just have to find out.

Humans cannot create anything out of nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding onto something. After all, humans are not gods.

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Think about it logically. A fetus is a parasite for 9 months, it isn't sentient until 6 months in. If it's host (mother) dies it dies too.

well since this is true than we can say the same about people on welfare.  They are parasites to tax payers so we should euthanize all of them.

 

That is also logical.  So lets apply your logic there so we can both be satisfied

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well since this is true than we can say the same about people on welfare.  They are parasites to tax payers so we should euthanize all of them.

 

That is also logical.  So lets apply your logic there so we can both be satisfied

We're all parasites feeding off of the planets resources. Does that mean everyone should just die. no! (unless you're a masochist)

Edited by Kyubey

Humans cannot create anything out of nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding onto something. After all, humans are not gods.

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We're all parasites feeding off of the planets resources. Does that mean everyone should just die. no!

Our planet is a parasite feeding off of the sun. A couple of Minuteman missiles here and there should fix that problem...  ;)

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North Korea is pretty developed, despite what the internet says. I mean, unless this isn't developed. The  only thing that we don't support is their dictatorship, communism, and labor camps. 

Pyongyang-North-Korea-tou-453952.jpg

 

"We use more of it than ever." We also have a higher population than ever. How much wood do you use compared to back before heaters used electricity? And what is reforestation? 

 

"more than ever." Again, how much coal per person, though? Maybe a lot in China where they have an abundant supply, but not nearly as much here. 

 

What is bioplastic? 

Sure, we will have to make more plants, but does my phone case, and laptop case need to be made of plastic? Sure it would be more expensive if it is made from some sort of metal now, but the free market will respond. Supply and demand. Oil companies will increase the price of oil because there is less of a supply. Thus making the plastic more expensive and companies that need plastic will search for a cheaper material. "But metal isn't renewable." The same process will happen. 

North Korea is only developed in areas the government shows people. Have you ever seen it from space? Electricity is a commodity only shared by those who bend over backwards for a regime they all know is as twisted as a rope.

Second, the growing population is the problem to how much resources we use. So even if we use them more efficiently, we are still using them more than we were before. So that point is pretty mute.

As for bioplastic and metal, metal is very renewable. It's also recyclable unlike plastic. Plastic is not recycled, it's downgraded and most of it is never even actually recycled in said downgrading system. But with that being said we actually do have synthetic oils and plastics that can be made. The problem is, the cost to produce them is far, far beyond affordability in the foreseeable future. So you say they will search for an alternative but they already have been. And so far that search has made some progress but has failed to find anything affordable. Which is THE issue with replacing oil. Affordability. We already have tons of replacements, but nothing we can actually use.

 

 

Of course the world population is going to grow I mean people have babies and people are living longer however a the birth rates are going down. Also, many developing nations in Africa are starting to industrialize and get into the world economy and I believe that the birth rates will go down dramatically in the next 50 years but I guess we'll just have to find out.

True, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I highly doubt the third world will catch up before overwhelming population drops modern society first. 

Look at the migrant crisis in Europe and before you blame that on war, think about why there is so much war in first place. Osama Bin Laden believed that climate change would have a huge effect on the middle east and his Jihad war in the coming years just before his death. 

Looking at those claims now it seems highly accurate with the drought and depleting ground water throughout the middle east regions. In Syria alone, much of the violence can be blamed on the drought and depletion of ground water. The people in rural areas ran out of water. So they moved into the cities and strained urban resources. Not long after a huge war broke out. 

Nothing to do with climate change and too many people? I think not.

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Our planet is a parasite feeding off of the sun. A couple of Minuteman missiles here and there should fix that problem...  ;)

The sun is a parasite that feeds off of helium. We can go on and on so stop saying that parasites should die or blow up the universe.

Edited by Kyubey

Humans cannot create anything out of nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding onto something. After all, humans are not gods.

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North Korea is only developed in areas the government shows people. Have you ever seen it from space? Electricity is a commodity only shared by those who bend over backwards for a regime they all know is as twisted as a rope.

Second, the growing population is the problem to how much resources we use. So even if we use them more efficiently, we are still using them more than we were before. So that point is pretty mute.

As for bioplastic and metal, metal is very renewable. It's also recyclable unlike plastic. Plastic is not recycled, it's downgraded and most of it is never even actually recycled in said downgrading system. But with that being said we actually do have synthetic oils and plastics that can be made. The problem is, the cost to produce them is far, far beyond affordability in the foreseeable future. So you say they will search for an alternative but they already have been. And so far that search has made some progress but has failed to find anything affordable. Which is THE issue with replacing oil. Affordability. We already have tons of replacements, but nothing we can actually use.

 

 

True, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I highly doubt the third world will catch up before overwhelming population drops modern society first. 

Look at the migrant crisis in Europe and before you blame that on war, think about why there is so much war in first place. Osama Bin Laden believed that climate change would have a huge effect on the middle east and his Jihad war in the coming years just before his death. 

Looking at those claims now it seems highly accurate with the drought and depleting ground water throughout the middle east regions. In Syria alone, much of the violence can be blamed on the drought and depletion of ground water. The people in rural areas ran out of water. So they moved into the cities and strained urban resources. Not long after a huge war broke out. 

Nothing to do with climate change and too many people? I think not.

Well we can always trust good ol' Binladen. Did you even see my temperature change post.

Edited by Kyubey
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Humans cannot create anything out of nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding onto something. After all, humans are not gods.

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Well we can always trust good ol' Binladen.

Why not? He wasn't a stupid man. Just like when Assad was calling the rebels terrorists and the world rejected his claims and laughed just because we saw him as a tyrant. Who's laughing now? Not the west.

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Why not? He wasn't a stupid man. Just like when Assad was calling the rebels terrorists and the world rejected his claims and laughed just because we saw him as a tyrant. Who's laughing now? Not the west.

he was smart I'll give you that but my chart shows that this is part of a cooling and heating cycle.

Humans cannot create anything out of nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding onto something. After all, humans are not gods.

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