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Abortion ought to be abolished, permanently!


Edward
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One of the arguments against abortion that it is a "woman's body" and that she has a "woman right." But it seems like people have forgotten that it is our body but the government does not allow for consuming drugs and is in a never-ending "war on drug." Should we violate the drug laws, we're imprison for months, if not years.  It is our body but we can't smoke marijuana, though that is changing slowly. It is our body, but we can't consume alcohol until we're 21. It is our body, but parents children are required to be vaccinated. It is our body, but we have to adhere to health regulations. It is our body, but we can't do many things with it. My point is, the government has some control over our body, which makes women body no different. If we want to advocate for a woman's body, then we ought to do the same for a man's body, a child's body, and a animal's body.

 

Another argument I hear is that why bring a baby into this world if we won't be able to care for it, feed it, educate it, and more. While this makes sense, let's not forget that there are people currently in those conditions, and although their condition is bad, it is minimal. Since we seem to want to abort a baby because of the reasons given, then those who are facing those same reasons should kill themselves. Is that what we're trying to say? Also, if people don't want babies, they ought not to engage in those acts that will lead to the female being pregnant, unless they are positioned to have one. We're pretty much giving teens (and women I should say) free pass and letting them abort their baby simply because they are not 'ready' to care for one. I've been in a relationship, but I've not engage in sexual intercourse of any kind, because one, it is not the only means to show our love for each other, and two, I'm not ready for a baby, therefore, I want to avoid getting my girlfriend pregnancy. Now if I'm done with college and I have a career, and my wife and I are able to care for each other, we will consider starting a family. But we ought to first examine our condition. But most high school girls and boys (even middle school) are not thinking about this and the girl winds up pregnant, which leaves two things to happen, the "father" leaves (some stay), and the girl and her family get in a dispute and she either keep the baby or think about aborting the baby. 

 

I really did not want to touch on this one, but a major argument that I hear is that why should a woman who is raped be forced to carry her rapist baby? This is perhaps the strongest case abortion advocates have, I'd admit that. I guess I can say rape is unethical, but so is taking another life, or does that life not matter, simply because it cannot speak for itself? Why should the child have to pay the ultimate price? It is important to note that a woman does not have to carry the baby, she can if she wants, but there are alternatives to abortion, like adoption. People are willing to adopt children and I rather have that than hearing a baby aborted, and I think that is rather reasonable than a woman aborting a child.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What do you think? I'm willing to engage in a meaningful debate.

 

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Think about it logically. A fetus is a parasite for 9 months, it isn't sentient until 6 months in. If it's host (mother) dies it dies too.

 

What is an infant? They can't feed themselves, they can't communicate, they can't even walk. If a mother has a child and dies, and no one else is around, the child dies too.

 

Would you say that it's okay to kill babies?

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The only instance in which I am okay with abortion would be if the fetus was so defective that it will certainly die upon birth, or if it's birth would certainly lead to the dead of both the fetus and the mother. Other than that, I'm not entirely comfortable with it.

 

I can also understand abortion if it's within days of conception because at that stage I can get behind the idea that it is literally a collection of cells.

 

It seems like the most common reason why women get abortions is because they feel like they can't financially support it, or that they're ''not ready'' or something to that matter. If that's the case, then you probably shouldn't be having sex in the first place. Of course, that isn't realistic (especially if we're talking about children), so I would be supportive of the idea of increasing access to birth control.

 

In relation to rapists, then I don't see why you would punish the child for another one's actions. But I suppose if it's done very early, it probably won't matter.

 

Also, I do believe a father's consent is very much required in abortion. If that father says no, then that's that. He has equal say as the mother does; it's his child to.

 

 

Think about it logically. A fetus is a parasite for 9 months, it isn't sentient until 6 months in. If it's host (mother) dies it dies too.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. Are you saying that because it can't support itself, it's life isn't considerable? Because if that's the case, what about severely mentally ill people- or for that matter, people of acute physical disabilities? I reckon myself to be quite the pragmatist, but some empathy and emotion should be brought into those matters.

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Those calling for abortion to be banned would be more credible if after those babes are born they didn't treat the poor lives with utter contempt. I could see reducing abortion levels as little problem if the government invested heavily in firstly orphanages for the extra children being born, annihilated immigration levels due to already have an extra source people in the new lives being born, made the orphanages efficient enough to help give the children a start in life perhaps even reserving certain spots in administration, armed forces, and such for those who stand out. 

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Also, I do believe a father's consent is very much required in abortion. If that father says no, then that's that. He has equal say as the mother does; it's his child to.

 

 

I wish it were this simple. I would love if we had equal say but the fact is that woman can die, both from complications with the pregnancy and with the birth.

 

Why should the father's desire to have a child not only override the mother's desire not to have one but also force her to endure a potentially life threatening pregnancy and birth?

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So what about the 30,000 women that are raped each year and get pregnant ?

 

A fetus is less alive then a tree, or the sperm in your ballsack. It is not a person it does not have consciousness.

 

The fact is if we spent less time talking about abortion and more time educating our children properly on sexual education and the use of condoms and such this wouldn't be a big deal. But because the bible also says condoms are the devil you get a lot of !@#$ for trying to do that in American schools. It should be a mandate that these children are taught this before entering highschool.

Edited by Hysteria
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Americans talk about the holocaust against the jews and say it bad. What about the holocaust happening here against unwanted babies, why is that seen as good among the westerns???!

 

 

AH THOSE AMERICAN DOGS *DRONE STRIKE* Abu Al-myfemaledog

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Abortion is not a man's decision. The choice is the woman's and hers alone. I won't say more than that because really there is nothing more to be said on abortion.

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What is an infant? They can't feed themselves, they can't communicate, they can't even walk. If a mother has a child and dies, and no one else is around, the child dies too.

 

Would you say that it's okay to kill babies?

Not true. 

If its mother dies someone else can take care of that baby. There is formulated breast milk among other things that would keep that baby alive and anybody would be willing to take care of that baby because it is sentient, it is alive and it's "cute" even if it does shit all over itself.

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Or you can all get over the fact that some people have different views, arguing about this will piss people of no matter what, Think about what you do more than you think about what others do.

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I'm not sure I agree with all of your reasoning, but personally, I do agree that abortion is wrong.

 

My thought process is this:

 

Is abortion okay if you're aborting the child right after it's born? (Killing a live baby out of the womb)

 

No.

Is abortion okay if you're aborting the child one day before it's born? (Killing a live baby in the womb)

 

No.

 

Is abortion okay if you're aborting the child one week before it's born?

 

No.

 

One month? Two months? Three months? Five months?

 

I say no - life must either begin at conception or birth, and I think it's wrong to kill newborn babies. Therefore life must begin at conception, which IIRC is ~2 weeks after consummation.

 

Now that said, I'm also very pro-birth control and I think that if you do get pregnant and you're not in a position to raise the child, you should let someone else adopt it (there are lots of parents that can't have kids looking to adopt that could provide a great life for your child).

 

With the most state of the art technology, you can hear a heartbeat as early as 2 weeks after conception. That doesn't mean that there's no heartbeat before then, we're just limited by current technology to hear it earlier and determine if it's there or not.

 

Also, when a woman becomes pregnant, we measure it in weeks, but we start measuring from the first day of her last menstrual period. Since conception doesn't usually occur for another 2 weeks, you are correct in saying that life begins at conception. At least I believe it does. 

Those calling for abortion to be banned would be more credible if after those babes are born they didn't treat the poor lives with utter contempt. I could see reducing abortion levels as little problem if the government invested heavily in firstly orphanages for the extra children being born, annihilated immigration levels due to already have an extra source people in the new lives being born, made the orphanages efficient enough to help give the children a start in life perhaps even reserving certain spots in administration, armed forces, and such for those who stand out.

 

Just because an unwanted baby isn't aborted doesn't mean that they'll end up in an orphanage. My niece was adopted into a wonderful family, who not only love and cherish her, but give her a much better life than we had growing up. 

 

Or you can all get over the fact that some people have different views, arguing about this will piss people of no matter what, Think about what you do more than you think about what others do.

 

I have to agree with this. I'm opposed to abortion in most cases. In the cases of rape/incest/life threatening, then make it the mother's choice. But I don't think it's right that a woman can decide to keep the baby, yet force the father who doesn't wish to keep the baby, to pay child support. I don't think it's right that a father has no say in whether or not his child is aborted. 

 

No matter what, illegal abortions are going to happen. Certain doctors will do 2nd and 3rd term abortions, so the argument that if we made abortion illegal it would happen anyway falls flat. Illegal abortions already do happen, and nothing is really going to stop that.

 

As far as birth control is concerned, I say go for it. In this day and age, if you're having casual sex, you should be wearing a condom. That's not only to prevent pregnancy, but also protect yourself from sexually transmitted infections and diseases, which can potentially be more disastrous than an unplanned pregnancy. There's also several other birth control options available if you're in a healthy, monogamous relationship, so there's really no excuse not to plan ahead. There's even the morning after pill, which doesn't require a prescription if someone failed to take precautionary steps up to 72 hours after unprotected sex. 

 

But I really don't think anything is going to ever come of the abortion debate. The only reason I posted is because I'm bored. 

Edited by Samwise
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No matter what, illegal abortions are going to happen. Certain doctors will do 2nd and 3rd term abortions, so the argument that if we made abortion illegal it would happen anyway falls flat. Illegal abortions already do happen, and nothing is really going to stop that.

 

I agree with the first sentence.  Do you have any source about the rate of 2nd and 3rd term abortions prior to and after RvW?

 

I suspect the rate went down significantly.

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But I really don't think anything is going to ever come of the abortion debate. 

Doesn't this apply to all debates? 

 

I agree with all of your points, though. 

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One of the arguments against abortion that it is a "woman's body" and that she has a "woman right." But it seems like people have forgotten that it is our body but the government does not allow for consuming drugs and is in a never-ending "war on drug."

I stopped reading after this. Do you consider the "war on drugs" a success?

 

More importantly, do you think it is good policy?

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It's likely that most children who grow up in families that abhor abortion will end up agreeing with their parents' views whereas, by the same logic, people who choose to abort a fetus lose a probable future pro-choice advocate. Therefore, by allowing abortion, you are potentially strengthening the anti-abortionist movement's support. Sweet irony.

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Those calling for abortion to be banned would be more credible if after those babes are born they didn't treat the poor lives with utter contempt. I could see reducing abortion levels as little problem if the government invested heavily in firstly orphanages for the extra children being born, annihilated immigration levels due to already have an extra source people in the new lives being born, made the orphanages efficient enough to help give the children a start in life perhaps even reserving certain spots in administration, armed forces, and such for those who stand out. 

 

I absolutely agree with you. I'm 100% pro birth control and pro adoption services. Like I said, there are many families that want to adopt children because they can't have any themselves. I would say orphanages ought to be more of a last resort than a loving family that wants a child, but better than an abortion.

 

So what about the 30,000 women that are raped each year and get pregnant ?

 

A fetus is less alive then a tree, or the sperm in your ballsack. It is not a person it does not have consciousness.

 

The fact is if we spent less time talking about abortion and more time educating our children properly on sexual education and the use of condoms and such this wouldn't be a big deal. But because the bible also says condoms are the devil you get a lot of !@#$ for trying to do that in American schools. It should be a mandate that these children are taught this before entering highschool.

 

If a woman gets raped, I'd say it ought to be her choice. But to say that an unborn baby is not a person seems a little ridiculous. Would you be okay with terminating a pregnancy one day before birth? How about two days? Three? When does it become "okay" to kill the baby?

 

And the bible doesn't say anything about condoms, but I do agree that better sex ed, and better available contraceptives would help prevent abortion being used as birth control.

 

Not true. 

If its mother dies someone else can take care of that baby. There is formulated breast milk among other things that would keep that baby alive and anybody would be willing to take care of that baby because it is sentient, it is alive and it's "cute" even if it does shit all over itself.

 

Babies can be born prematurely as well, and taken care of in this fashion. If the mother dies, say, 7 months into pregnancy, there's still a good chance that the baby could survive (assuming there's proper medical treatment available).

 

And just because perhaps someone else would volunteer to take over the child, that just means it's now a parasite to that person by your logic. And you say it's okay to kill parasites, so nothing has really changed.

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Abortion has been covered in this forum before, and we all reached a conclusion. That conclusion was something along the lines of:

 

"Abortion should only be legal until the fetus can feel pain, which is around 9 weeks into pregnancy, which gives the mother 3 whole months to decide whether or not to keep him/her. Although, if the baby was conceived through rape, the mother can decide to abort until the 3rd trimester."

 

I do agree with Sheepy that birth control is a thing every female should take if they want to have sex but shouldnt have children yet, and that if you do end up getting pregnant, it is most likely your fault for allowing "the pull out method" to be your only prevention tool. Adoption is the best solution, even if you gotta go through those contracrions that hurt more than death itself. Give the baby to those who can't have one by themsleves. Any one who adopts a kid will want one.

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Abortion is a grey area, thus should be left up to the individual who is actually having the abortion. If you don't agree with abortion, then don't have one.

 

"It's her body. It's her decision

Not that of state, man or religion."

Edited by The Governor

"You can lose a lot of soldiers but still win the game."

 

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Abortion has been covered in this forum before, and we all reached a conclusion. That conclusion was something along the lines of:

 

"Abortion should only be legal until the fetus can feel pain, which is around 9 weeks into pregnancy, which gives the mother 3 whole months to decide whether or not to keep him/her. Although, if the baby was conceived through rape, the mother can decide to abort until the 3rd trimester."

We certainly did not all reach that conclusion. Firstly, "3 whole months" is 13 weeks, not 9 weeks. Secondly, a pregnant woman does not normally realize she is pregnant until she doesn't get her period, typically 3 or 4 weeks after conception. So, to give a woman 3 months to decide after she found out she was pregnant, abortion would be legal until the 17th week.

 

The medical argument is based on viability - a fetus can't survive outside the womb before 22 weeks of development. Either way, we're looking at close to 20 weeks, not 9.

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