Morgan Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If it actually works out this way, and Terradoxia returns any gains that came from the exploit, I think that's great and you deserve applause and congratulations. We should encourage other individuals and alliances to make the same pledge. We want a fair playing field just like everybody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Freer Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 I have saw many different things here so I am going to try to clear it up. Government Involvement Let’s go through Terradoxia’s whole government at that time and see who knew. King Jackson - Inactive since early June due to Real Life. Became active again recently after we told him he had to stand down so we can move on after being restricted. He used to be in charge of Paradoxia where all the members who are cheating were from. He has now been banned. King Morgan - Extremely busy in Real Life also having to run the whole alliance without Jackson. Assumed that Last187 had high income and was making money from income and resource sales like he told him. Last187 also told him he had loans outstanding with many people who he was getting back. Archduke Tiggera - Extremely busy in Real Life. Didn’t do much in the position because of Real Life. Archduke Josh Freer - Since this was going on I was Minister of Defence and did not concern myself with the workings of the Bank. After I became Archduke I did not look into treasury, instead stayed with Defence where I hadn’t finished our system change over. Minister of Economics WIll Golay - Inactive from 17th June 2015 due to an overseas business trip. He was probably here when Last187 first sent the money but he believed that it was just from what he had been saving and he had no reason to believe any funds were illegitimate. Minister of Defence Heinrich Dahler - Used to be Deputy Minister of Defence before I was promoted. Then moved up with me moving. Only moved into a full Government role around a week and a half ago. Minister of Internal Affairs BigEll - Was inactive for a month due to exams and has been cleared of charges against him by Sheepy. Minister of Justice Alkadi Yiri - Basically didn’t do much. We don’t have a solid Justice structure. Thats just more for show. Final Government member Minister of Foreign Affairs Last187 - You know with that. He cheated nothing to say about that. He also told people that his funds were income, resource selling and loans that he has given out to people like Grealind from Cobalt who paid part of the loan back into the bank. Yes members of Terradoxia used the money without knowing it. Now we are here defending our members who were not aware of this. 2 Quote Honour, Fury, Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asierith Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I knew nothing - like Talerong says, we weren't very interested in where the money came from when it went into the bank. Yes I checked the announcement page, but that was to check if there was any free stuff or If we were going to war. We had no real reason to believe that it had come from any cheating - I don't micromanage my nation, let alone 57 others. I don't see why we are being blamed - we didn't cheat and anyone who did has been banned. I think that is all that is necessary, as anything else will be unfair on other nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Freer Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 I also forgot to mention that Sheepy has took the money that Last187 and Herman van something put in the alliance bank. Quote Honour, Fury, Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asierith Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Just Curious, as a new player I am wondering if anything like this has happened before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrde Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Fair play to Terradoxia high command, so far a commendable attitude shown. Hopefully everyone involved follows suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELPINCHAZO Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I have saw many different things here so I am going to try to clear it up. Government Involvement Let’s go through Terradoxia’s whole government at that time and see who knew. King Jackson - Inactive since early June due to Real Life. Became active again recently after we told him he had to stand down so we can move on after being restricted. He used to be in charge of Paradoxia where all the members who are cheating were from. He has now been banned. King Morgan - Extremely busy in Real Life also having to run the whole alliance without Jackson. Assumed that Last187 had high income and was making money from income and resource sales like he told him. Last187 also told him he had loans outstanding with many people who he was getting back. Archduke Tiggera - Extremely busy in Real Life. Didn’t do much in the position because of Real Life. Archduke Josh Freer - Since this was going on I was Minister of Defence and did not concern myself with the workings of the Bank. After I became Archduke I did not look into treasury, instead stayed with Defence where I hadn’t finished our system change over. Minister of Economics WIll Golay - Inactive from 17th June 2015 due to an overseas business trip. He was probably here when Last187 first sent the money but he believed that it was just from what he had been saving and he had no reason to believe any funds were illegitimate. Minister of Defence Heinrich Dahler - Used to be Deputy Minister of Defence before I was promoted. Then moved up with me moving. Only moved into a full Government role around a week and a half ago. Minister of Internal Affairs BigEll - Was inactive for a month due to exams and has been cleared of charges against him by Sheepy. Minister of Justice Alkadi Yiri - Basically didn’t do much. We don’t have a solid Justice structure. Thats just more for show. Final Government member Minister of Foreign Affairs Last187 - You know with that. He cheated nothing to say about that. He also told people that his funds were income, resource selling and loans that he has given out to people like Grealind from Cobalt who paid part of the loan back into the bank. Yes members of Terradoxia used the money without knowing it. Now we are here defending our members who were not aware of this. to be fair,everyone here has a real life. Those excuses really don't mean anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I have saw many different things here so I am going to try to clear it up. Government Involvement Let’s go through Terradoxia’s whole government at that time and see who knew. King Jackson - Inactive since early June due to Real Life. Became active again recently after we told him he had to stand down so we can move on after being restricted. He used to be in charge of Paradoxia where all the members who are cheating were from. He has now been banned. King Morgan - Extremely busy in Real Life also having to run the whole alliance without Jackson. Assumed that Last187 had high income and was making money from income and resource sales like he told him. Last187 also told him he had loans outstanding with many people who he was getting back. Archduke Tiggera - Extremely busy in Real Life. Didn’t do much in the position because of Real Life. Archduke Josh Freer - Since this was going on I was Minister of Defence and did not concern myself with the workings of the Bank. After I became Archduke I did not look into treasury, instead stayed with Defence where I hadn’t finished our system change over. Minister of Economics WIll Golay - Inactive from 17th June 2015 due to an overseas business trip. He was probably here when Last187 first sent the money but he believed that it was just from what he had been saving and he had no reason to believe any funds were illegitimate. Minister of Defence Heinrich Dahler - Used to be Deputy Minister of Defence before I was promoted. Then moved up with me moving. Only moved into a full Government role around a week and a half ago. Minister of Internal Affairs BigEll - Was inactive for a month due to exams and has been cleared of charges against him by Sheepy. Minister of Justice Alkadi Yiri - Basically didn’t do much. We don’t have a solid Justice structure. Thats just more for show. Final Government member Minister of Foreign Affairs Last187 - You know with that. He cheated nothing to say about that. He also told people that his funds were income, resource selling and loans that he has given out to people like Grealind from Cobalt who paid part of the loan back into the bank. Yes members of Terradoxia used the money without knowing it. Now we are here defending our members who were not aware of this. If so, Terradoxia is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 If so, Terradoxia is a joke. Kinda like your leadership of Titan. Okay, no offense meant, but I couldn't resist after seeing all those threads about you in the forums. Quote Proud Canadian, Proud Ontarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Kinda like your leadership of Titan. Okay, no offense meant, but I couldn't resist after seeing all those threads about you in the forums. Go away, Cheater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillou Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I have saw many different things here so I am going to try to clear it up. Government Involvement Let’s go through Terradoxia’s whole government at that time and see who knew. King Jackson - Inactive since early June due to Real Life. Became active again recently after we told him he had to stand down so we can move on after being restricted. He used to be in charge of Paradoxia where all the members who are cheating were from. He has now been banned. King Morgan - Extremely busy in Real Life also having to run the whole alliance without Jackson. Assumed that Last187 had high income and was making money from income and resource sales like he told him. Last187 also told him he had loans outstanding with many people who he was getting back. Archduke Tiggera - Extremely busy in Real Life. Didn’t do much in the position because of Real Life. Archduke Josh Freer - Since this was going on I was Minister of Defence and did not concern myself with the workings of the Bank. After I became Archduke I did not look into treasury, instead stayed with Defence where I hadn’t finished our system change over. Minister of Economics WIll Golay - Inactive from 17th June 2015 due to an overseas business trip. He was probably here when Last187 first sent the money but he believed that it was just from what he had been saving and he had no reason to believe any funds were illegitimate. Minister of Defence Heinrich Dahler - Used to be Deputy Minister of Defence before I was promoted. Then moved up with me moving. Only moved into a full Government role around a week and a half ago. Minister of Internal Affairs BigEll - Was inactive for a month due to exams and has been cleared of charges against him by Sheepy. Minister of Justice Alkadi Yiri - Basically didn’t do much. We don’t have a solid Justice structure. Thats just more for show. Final Government member Minister of Foreign Affairs Last187 - You know with that. He cheated nothing to say about that. He also told people that his funds were income, resource selling and loans that he has given out to people like Grealind from Cobalt who paid part of the loan back into the bank. Yes members of Terradoxia used the money without knowing it. Now we are here defending our members who were not aware of this. The fact that so much of your government was just described as "inactive", or "didn't do much" by you speaks volumes. Why did you allow your government to be filled with people that weren't up to the task? This goes back to the point that it was still your responsibility to acknowledge the suspicious growth that had been haunting your alliance for the past couple months, but if everyone is inactive then it makes sense you were not noticing that kind of thing - meaning you needed a more active/competent government. You also just admitted to using money that you recognize was exploited, even though you didn't at the time - you still did. Yet you still believe you should all get off with no punishment just because you didn't know? How is that fair? I know that ignorance is bliss but that is too much of a stretch in my opinion. 3 1 Quote [17:17:58] <&Ashland> I will give you hops if you say this phrase: [17:18:13] <&Ashland> "Man, I really wish Rose had allied BoC a couple months ago when we had the chance instead of picking Vanguard." [17:20:16] Man, I really wish Rose had allied BoC a couple months ago when we had the chance instead of picking Vanguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 The fact that so much of your government was just described as "inactive", or "didn't do much" by you speaks volumes. Why did you allow your government to be filled with people that weren't up to the task? This goes back to the point that it was still your responsibility to acknowledge the suspicious growth that had been haunting your alliance for the past couple months, but if everyone is inactive then it makes sense you were not noticing that kind of thing - meaning you needed a more active/competent government. You also just admitted to using money that you recognize was exploited, even though you didn't at the time - you still did. Yet you still believe you should all get off with no punishment just because you didn't know? How is that fair? I know that ignorance is bliss but that is too much of a stretch in my opinion. This. They don't understand that we aren't accusing them of cheating but rather of incredible ineptitude, so they keep saying "I didn't know", "we didn't know", etc which just worsens their position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It's common knowedge that if you didn't know stolen goods were stolen the police allow you to keep em... Quote ☾☆ Warrior of Dio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadin Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It's common knowedge that if you didn't know stolen goods were stolen the police allow you to keep em... Read the thread. Nobody is saying TDX wants to keep anything. In fact, they have been more than happy to work with Sheepy to make sure the exploited money is eliminated. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Freer Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 If you read everything we have said then you would already know that Sheepy has took money out of our alliance bank from what Last and Herman directly put in there. Quote Honour, Fury, Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodo Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I am the infamous hacker 4 chin. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 It's common knowedge that if you didn't know stolen goods were stolen the police allow you to keep em... I'm sure those of us who are in law enforcement/criminal justice can tell you that this is quite untrue. This. They don't understand that we aren't accusing them of cheating but rather of incredible ineptitude, so they keep saying "I didn't know", "we didn't know", etc which just worsens their position. It's clear that this has been a problem in our alliance, and we're going to work to resolve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Read the thread. Nobody is saying TDX wants to keep anything. In fact, they have been more than happy to work with Sheepy to make sure the exploited money is eliminated. Whats Sheepy gonna do then, rip down a butt load of infra and take away the resources gained with the expolited money from all the players that have gained from this? I'd be willing to work with Sheepy too if I knew that the most likely outcome would be nothing, I'd also try to limit the damage this would do to my alliances image by claiming that most of the leadership were not paying attention and/or inactive in an effort to convince myself and others that deep down, I didn't know this was dodgy. Now, I'm not saying that Morgan or any other TDX member knew it was dodgy money, but alarms bells should have been ringing. Then again, when someone is throwing millions at you, who are you to question where that money comes from... just smile, thank them and go spend it. 2 Quote ☾☆ Warrior of Dio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELPINCHAZO Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I am the infamous hacker 4 chin. RL LOLs for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post seabasstion Posted July 9, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2015 Not only are the duties of leading a top 10 alliance extremely taxing, being a college student and having a life outside of the internet takes up a lot of time. We do not monitor the growth of our nations after they reach a certain income, so that we can spend more time building up our smaller nations. You are correct, that we are responsible for everything that goes on in our alliance. However, we did not suspect that members of our alliance were involved in exploits as they would have been reported and removed from the alliance. There are two points in here i want to address. 1) we did not suspect that members of our alliance were involved in exploits I just finished reviewing all of your remaining members bank transactions over a two week period - June 3rd to June 16. This would have been firmly within your growth program (while last187 continued to outpace explanable growth but that is another issue) you personally sent $211.6M to your members during this time period. Your alliance as a whole sent out $278.5M while it received $55.8 M in donations from its remaining members. this is a net loss of $222.7M (not counting contributions made by those that were banned) The way you have described it, it reads to me that you asked Last187 to fund this growth program. am I correct to infer (i dont have data on this) that Last187 either funded this $222.7M personally or you took this from your alliance bank? over 14 days, this means that on average 15.9M net dollars would have left your bank. did terradoxia bank have 200M sitting around on june 3rd? I suppose your taxes could have been this high and funded this figure after the war but just eyeballing other 'growth program' donations that happened after the 14th to your members it would seem to me that your bank coffers would have had to have been even higher than that. I do know that last187 donated about 60M to the bank in the previous 3 weeks from his ban. even if he had funded another 60M during the 3rd - 14th thats still a remarkable figure of funds that would either have had to be present (which makes me wonder what took you so long to do anything with it) or to be generated through taxes (perhaps this is how the exploit worked? generate it directly into the alliance bank?) considering you personally moved most of this money i find it rather remarkable this didnt raise any suspicions on your end. this has been said in other posts though so im not really saying anything you haven't heard before so i'll move on 2) so that we can spend more time building up our smaller nations This, however, is very interesting. you must have a very different definition of what a 'smaller' nations is than i. using records from the 3rd to the 14th compared to your alliance members rank (by score) this is how the distribution of funds was given from this $278.5M pool: based on Terradoxia's rankings today, almost 70% of the growth program funds during this two week period was given to existing top 10 nations (193M) once we get to top 15 nations, almost 85% of funds was provided (an additional 42M for those additional 5 nations). It is common sense that you get best ROI by building up small nations. it costs a lot less to earn the same amount of money (through infra and improvement purchases), however only 43.5M was given out to nations outside of your top 15 rank. I know that many of these nations may be inactive but when you consider that you personally received 50M during this time I don't exactly buy the claim that you were focusing your efforts on smaller nations. to me: one of three things has to be happening here. 1) you werent focusing your efforts at all and this is an "oversight" on your part. I dont buy this at all but i suppose you could have accidentally forgotten to grow your young nations. it would have taken you a fair amount of time to transfer out all of these funds and figure out how to appropriate them so i dont think this is an 'whoops' moment. i dont think this is happening 2) there is an elaborate nation farming system going on here. i wont speculate on the specifics but if youre looking to cash out on something shady like that a 'growth program' would be a good cover. i dont think this is happening to a large extent. probably some but i dont think this is the driving behavior im witnessing 3) you were in the know and wanted to fund/boost other important nations (long tenure and/or your friends) in the alliance. if you truly wanted fund/grow your smaller nations you would have done that. instead you reserved most of the funds for your top page. with heavy frontloading. you at 3 and eurasia at 2 received a collective 100M during these two weeks. either there was a VERY large fund in terradoxia bank to begin with that was sitting idle after a war (a red flag for me) or there was a large amount being donated by now banned members (a very large red flag for me). considering you touched a large portion of this money you would really have to be an unobservant and/or incurious person. additionally, there would have had to have been nobody in your alliance that bothered to browse the forums and see any one of the multiple threads about last187 cheating. i barely browse the forums and i had very little interest in terradoxia and even i found it. youre telling me nobody in your 55 member alliance saw it and gave anyone in gov't a heads up? this is a very big red flag for me. i can't prove any of this one way or another but the funding distribution of your alliance and the sheer amount of willful ignorance that is required is too much for me to believe. this whole situation doesn't pass the smell test to me. your claims, your actions, this thread. none of it. 24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well atleast it makes sense why anyone would want to stay in an alliance with an inactive gov... TONS OF FREE MONEY!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Ohsnap. 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Again, I volunteer to investigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELPINCHAZO Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I can investigate,I will just require admin of the forums,the AA,your smart phones,email,game accounts,any other form of electronic communications and your mothers. I'm the only man on Orbis that can really clear you of these outlandish accusations(and service your mothers) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Seabasstion is a mother!@#$ing god and just ended all discussion that could ever take place. *bows* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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