丂ħ̧i̧₣ɫ̵γ͘ ̶™ Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 No they haven't, they're still alive and chatting away. While I'd normally agree with SK/Guard that VE would lose more money in their lower tiers, that's completely nullified by the fact that the top tiers in this game can send unlimited aid to the bottom tiers. I've said it before and I'll say it again, every war in this game has, and likely shall, continue to be won by the side with the larger top tier. Also, there is something really important within the game itself that most parties here are conveniently ignoring or simply don't know the extent of. Not only that, but losing improvements is eventually going to hurt them too. No infra=no income. No improvements=no fighting capability. The money in the AA bank has to run dry eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jodo Posted June 2, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2015 What amazes me the most about this entire thread isn't the "We did nothing wrong!" defense, but the threat of a longer even more drawn out war and how terrible such a cost would be to VE and/or its allies. They know. That threat doesn't work if they are happy to pay that price. You'll nip away here and there, and they'll lose growth speed. But at no point will you stop their overall growth. They are too large and outproduce you in funds and war materials. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 We'll slow their growth. That's enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I used to sympathise with VE for being attacked, but with this post they made, I doubt they deserve any. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Xun Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) I've already explained the North Korean scenario on IRC; but let's repeat it again. Guardian and SK might be better off being rolled utterly this war, because if they are let off with the reps offered, they will be able to rebuild, and in 4-6 months they will once again be a target. What alliances cannot abide is not a single defeat, but a continuous series of defeats where they are faced with a continuous repetition of rolling. If Guardian and SK are utterly destroyed this war, when they finally get acceptable terms and peace out, they will be in no position to be of any threat to anyone, either as an ally or as an enemy. In the upcoming war, it may be possible to include them on the hit list, but with a proven tenacity for fighting beyond reason in this war, that will probably not be profitable. On the other hand, if they peace out, they will probably hit at least 1k average score by the next war, they will be a threat, and they will likely end up on the losing side, getting them rolled again. For Guard and SK, then, there is more profit to be gained by being completely neutralized this war, using it to build their esprit de corps instead of disposable pixels, sitting out the next major war as a bystander too small to be engaged, and waiting for the victors, as they always do, to fall out with each other and turn on each other, leaving Guard and SK mostly forgotten, but a tier 2 or tier 3 power in the war after the next. === That's why I call it the North Korean scenario. If Guard and SK end up being seen as too small and too crazy to fight, it's a win for them. If they end up recovering nominally, they will likely be on the wrong side in the next major war, and that's two lost wars in a row. Better to end up after the next war as a minor power slowly rebuilding its strength than as a discredited foe that's been shattered twice. Edited June 2, 2015 by Inst Quote . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigInZen Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 No I was not my friend. I was merely stating that when your government does stuff that you don't like, you still bear the repercussions for those actions. But, I could see how it could be construed like that and I hope my reply brings some clarity. Sure does and I agree. If your leadership !@#$ up you hold them accountable. Of course, you yourself might also be held accountable to the choices of your leaders... (you meaning generic you and not you in particular Jroc) Quote Priest of Dio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordship Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Plotting to destroy Viridia, getting beat for it, and then spitting in our faces when we demand they pay reparations? I can literally taste the salt. Quote Life before Death. Strength before Weakness. Journey before Destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Whatever it is , to demand for reps is a bad taste , bad call. Edited June 2, 2015 by Vincent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadin Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Stop behaving like an overlord, it will lead to your downfall one day . Look in the mirror. You're the one trying to dictate to VE whether or not they should request reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHat Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Whatever it is , to demand for reps is a bad taste , bad call. why are reps so bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordship Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Whatever it is , to demand for reps is a bad taste , bad call. I disagree. They must take responsibility for their actions. Edited June 2, 2015 by Lordship 1 Quote Life before Death. Strength before Weakness. Journey before Destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diocletian Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Stop behaving like an overlord, it will lead to your downfall one day . A "neutral overlord?" That's an interesting theory you have there Vincent. Go easy on the tinfoil speculation, VE isn't plotting to rule the world. Of course, unless you consider dominating the market, alongside tS, overlord status. But no really, we're planning to turn all of Guardian and SK into our personal coal, iron, oil and lead farms. Check our alliance's seal, the masonic proof of this is there. You'll really, really have to strain your eyes to find it though! p.s. - Actually we just want Guardian & SK to own up to their role in plotting against us and our allies, nothing more, nothing less. Reps and other conditions are not that bad at all. No conspiracy involved, I promise. Quote "The happiness of the people, and the peace of the empire, and the glory of the reign are linked with the fortune of the Army." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 well now. isn't this a nice place to stroll in to. I have to say, I'm generally surprised at the levels of disrespect certain Rose members have pointed at their Guardian allies but i digress on this.... The first and very foremost issue that I have issue with is in the idea that reparations are a universal term for peace that has been established. This is beyond wrong. The very first case of reparations that have been sought was your demand from Mensa. This act will for sure be remembered in Orbis history to come where we begin the slippery slope of peace demands that have torn many of other worlds apart. No matter how "evil" we may have seemed, we have always held to the belief that reparations are without a doubt horrible for the people of this world You might say that it is our pride that stands between us and peace, and I won't lie that that is a large case at the moment. However, it is our pride that is hopefully keeping such an archaic scurge of a peace term from rearing its ugly head in the future. - One other point that I would like to address is one made by Impero. Apparently we've been hostile since VE's founding? If I remember right SK-VE relations were doing pretty well until VE started to play the political game and align themselves to come to a head to head feud with us. This was after the funding and guides we provided them to assist with them gaining a foothold in Orbis. I suppose some memories are better off forgotten huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegoz Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 well now. isn't this a nice place to stroll in to. I have to say, I'm generally surprised at the levels of disrespect certain Rose members have pointed at their Guardian allies but i digress on this.... The first and very foremost issue that I have issue with is in the idea that reparations are a universal term for peace that has been established. This is beyond wrong. The very first case of reparations that have been sought was your demand from Mensa. This act will for sure be remembered in Orbis history to come where we begin the slippery slope of peace demands that have torn many of other worlds apart. No matter how "evil" we may have seemed, we have always held to the belief that reparations are without a doubt horrible for the people of this world You might say that it is our pride that stands between us and peace, and I won't lie that that is a large case at the moment. However, it is our pride that is hopefully keeping such an archaic scurge of a peace term from rearing its ugly head in the future. - One other point that I would like to address is one made by Impero. Apparently we've been hostile since VE's founding? If I remember right SK-VE relations were doing pretty well until VE started to play the political game and align themselves to come to a head to head feud with us. This was after the funding and guides we provided them to assist with them gaining a foothold in Orbis. I suppose some memories are better off forgotten huh? We'd be pretty bad allies not to point out their faults. Supporting you is almost the root cause of all of them. 2 Quote [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) well now. isn't this a nice place to stroll in to. I have to say, I'm generally surprised at the levels of disrespect certain Rose members have pointed at their Guardian allies but i digress on this.... The first and very foremost issue that I have issue with is in the idea that reparations are a universal term for peace that has been established. This is beyond wrong. The very first case of reparations that have been sought was your demand from Mensa. This act will for sure be remembered in Orbis history to come where we begin the slippery slope of peace demands that have torn many of other worlds apart. No matter how "evil" we may have seemed, we have always held to the belief that reparations are without a doubt horrible for the people of this world You might say that it is our pride that stands between us and peace, and I won't lie that that is a large case at the moment. However, it is our pride that is hopefully keeping such an archaic scurge of a peace term from rearing its ugly head in the future. - One other point that I would like to address is one made by Impero. Apparently we've been hostile since VE's founding? If I remember right SK-VE relations were doing pretty well until VE started to play the political game and align themselves to come to a head to head feud with us. This was after the funding and guides we provided them to assist with them gaining a foothold in Orbis. I suppose some memories are better off forgotten huh? Yet SK were the first to want to demand terms from UPN, even at that early stage of the game. Funny how you completely change stances when the tables are turned. Your leader has publicly said that he fully supports the notion of reps/terms in any war, and believes in the ultimate destruction of their opponents. So you really don't have a leg to stand on, when preaching about morality. Look at your own actions first, and given how your alliance is set up, you are very much defined by your king. So stop talking complete and utter nonsense about SK being some sort of respectful party, and claiming the moral high ground. Edited June 2, 2015 by Saru 3 Quote Second in Command of UPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 We'd be pretty bad allies not to point out their faults. Supporting you is almost the root cause of all of them. it's generally a well respected notion that any disagreements should be held in private such as IRC channels or embassies. Public shaming is usually frowned upon...but that hasn't stopped you guys in the past now has it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Yet SK were the first to want to demand terms from UPN, even at that early stage of the game. Funny how you completely change stances when the tables are turned. Your leader has publicly said that he fully supports the notion of reps/terms in any war, and believes in the ultimate destruction of their opponents. So you really don't have a leg to stand on, when preaching about morality. Look at your own actions first. ah yes. a war that lasted for 10 whole days and the most that was being asked for was additional round of war if I remember right? We then decided for a straight white peace all around. Also, yes, while many may believe in terms for war such as increased destruction of their opponents, it has been engrained that personal opinions would not trump alliance values. That is why with any government system we have checks and balances. Even in the terms of a monarchy. Once again, our alliance does not, nor will ever, condone reparations being imposed on another party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) ah yes. a war that lasted for 10 whole days and the most that was being asked for was additional round of war if I remember right? We then decided for a straight white peace all around. Also, yes, while many may believe in terms for war such as increased destruction of their opponents, it has been engrained that personal opinions would not trump alliance values. That is why with any government system we have checks and balances. Even in the terms of a monarchy. Once again, our alliance does not, nor will ever, condone reparations being imposed on another party. Yet I know for a fact your alliance pushed for harsher terms, only for certain other parties to say no. Either you have no idea what went on in that war, or you are being lied to by your own government, and deceived into thinking that you are some sort of alliance standing for morality. If anything you are even worse given that you demanded pretty harsh terms when the game was still very young -- and you were the aggressors on us, as opposed to you being the aggressors in this scenario, and fully deserving to pay some sort of reps. So yes, your alliance has condoned terms being imposed on another party, but just didn't have enough support from the others in the coalition to get it pushed through. And your King has publicly said he not only condones, but would encourage terms and reps in wars. So again, stop spouting misinformation/lies fed to you by your government. Edited June 2, 2015 by Saru 2 Quote Second in Command of UPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Yet I know for a fact your alliance pushed for harsher terms, only for certain other parties to say no. Either you have no idea what went on in that war, or you are being lied to by your own government, and deceived into thinking that you are some some of alliance standing for morality. If anything you are even worse given that you demanded pretty harsh terms when the game was still very young. So yes, your alliance has condoned terms being imposed on another party, but just didn't have enough support from the others in the coalition to get it pushed through. And your King has publicly said he not only condones, but would encourage terms and reps in wars. ah yes, the ol' "i know for a fact" quote. You have been prompted on numerous occassions since that war ended to provide proof of this but each and every time you have failed to provide results. Keep in mind this was from I believe six months ago? Once again, we did push for additional round of war, that I am fully admitting to. The war ended so abruptly when Rose threatened to unilaterally leave the war as they believed they were taking too much damage. Also, once again, our King can say all he would like regarding his own personal opinion, that is not to say such a matter would occur. Our Small Council does have the ability to provide some checks on our King if we decide he is not acting in the alliance's best interests. Through out all the incarnations of our fine Kingdoms, this has only been used once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegoz Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 ah yes, the ol' "i know for a fact" quote. You have been prompted on numerous occassions since that war ended to provide proof of this but each and every time you have failed to provide results. Keep in mind this was from I believe six months ago? Once again, we did push for additional round of war, that I am fully admitting to. The war ended so abruptly when Rose threatened to unilaterally leave the war as they believed they were taking too much damage. Also, once again, our King can say all he would like regarding his own personal opinion, that is not to say such a matter would occur. Our Small Council does have the ability to provide some checks on our King if we decide he is not acting in the alliance's best interests. Through out all the incarnations of our fine Kingdoms, this has only been used once. You did want to ask for reps from TC, the only thing that stopped you was TEst and Rose disagreeing and threatening to pull out. I'm sure if you want proof, Adama or Pub can put the logs on here. You must be one of the most deluded people in SK right now. I don't think you have much of a grasp on what has happened and are repeating the lies your government has repeated to you. 1 Quote [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) ah yes, the ol' "i know for a fact" quote. You have been prompted on numerous occassions since that war ended to provide proof of this but each and every time you have failed to provide results. Keep in mind this was from I believe six months ago? Once again, we did push for additional round of war, that I am fully admitting to. The war ended so abruptly when Rose threatened to unilaterally leave the war as they believed they were taking too much damage. Also, once again, our King can say all he would like regarding his own personal opinion, that is not to say such a matter would occur. Our Small Council does have the ability to provide some checks on our King if we decide he is not acting in the alliance's best interests. Through out all the incarnations of our fine Kingdoms, this has only been used once. Where exactly have I been questioned before then? Show me these numerous occasions. And, yes you pushed for another additional round of war, after you couldn't push through the harsher terms you initially wanted. It's funny seeing you act like you are in the know, when I didn't see you in the peace negotiations, or the logs I was given of SK discussing various terms/reps that they would imposed on UPN. So you are literally talking out of your ass. For the sake of me respecting some individuals involved, I am not going to go log dumping in public. But if the people involved really insist on it, as opposed to someone who wasn't involved and has no idea what he is talking about, then we can go ahead and do that. You are the same alliance that threatened to war us, over an accidental message being sent to one of your applicants. You were also going to backstab your coalition partner right after the war. Please don't claim the moral high ground. Edited June 2, 2015 by Saru Quote Second in Command of UPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Asking for reps is akin to kicking people when they are down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 well now. isn't this a nice place to stroll in to. I have to say, I'm generally surprised at the levels of disrespect certain Rose members have pointed at their Guardian allies but i digress on this.... The first and very foremost issue that I have issue with is in the idea that reparations are a universal term for peace that has been established. This is beyond wrong. The very first case of reparations that have been sought was your demand from Mensa. This act will for sure be remembered in Orbis history to come where we begin the slippery slope of peace demands that have torn many of other worlds apart. No matter how "evil" we may have seemed, we have always held to the belief that reparations are without a doubt horrible for the people of this world You might say that it is our pride that stands between us and peace, and I won't lie that that is a large case at the moment. However, it is our pride that is hopefully keeping such an archaic scurge of a peace term from rearing its ugly head in the future. - One other point that I would like to address is one made by Impero. Apparently we've been hostile since VE's founding? If I remember right SK-VE relations were doing pretty well until VE started to play the political game and align themselves to come to a head to head feud with us. This was after the funding and guides we provided them to assist with them gaining a foothold in Orbis. I suppose some memories are better off forgotten huh? We certainly would have loved to have continued being close to you guys, but you preferred to not sign treaties, or at least, not sign with us. You guys did all you could to keep us at arm's length, and it was at that distance where we found alliances who treated us with respect, and we to them. Your true motives toward VE were revealed in the leak, and you've clearly been thinking about doing this for a long time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Lune Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Personally I think the terms should be "All nations should dismiss all spies above the count of 20 immediately and maintain a count of 20 spies maximum per nation until the terms of the reparation are completed". Same goes with missiles. I won't comment on the reparation amount, as I believe it wasn't harsh enough for people who tried to bash peoples heads together and then betray their own allies at the earliest opportunity. It may not be a very Christian thing to say, but warmongers and the metaphorical snakes should be taught a lesson. Forgiveness is gold, but forgiveness without repentence is stupid. If they will not repent, salvation by fire is probably the only method left. Please allow their citizens who disagree with their ideals to leave, though. While judgement must be swift and fair, efforts must be made to allow innocents to leave the battlefield, as long as they repent and will not take part in the war from that point onward Edited June 2, 2015 by Alice Lune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atzuya Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) ITT: people bashing head together until the stars align themselves But really, pretty much both sides know talking is useless, so why even bother Edited June 2, 2015 by Atzuya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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