A Note on Guardian and The Seven Kingdoms

[Goldie]

They'd like to come up $100 mil. Instead they will be eating missiles.

 

Best action I'm willing to take is to stop lobbing missiles. I can lob a missile a day for eternity. It's not much but it's cheaper for you to walk away.

You might be able to, but there is plenty of evidence to show that many people in your alliances can not do this. And even then, there will come a time when you just simply can't afford to do this. Why not put that cash and resources toward rebuilding yourselves, and not toward your continued destruction?

 

Sure it would be less expensive for us to walk away. It isn't about what is cheap or not. It would have been cheaper for us to roll over and beg for peace after a couple of days than it would have been to turn the tide and destroy the aggressors, but that's not the point. You guys attacked us, without provocation, as the latest in a line of alliances who dared to grow large in your game. Well, it isn't your game anymore, its everyone's game, and the quicker you guys accept that and come to the table, the better of a time you'll have in it.

[Phiney]

This is great, guardian and SK are very quickly getting into a position where the war is only stopping them rebuild, and doing very little monetary damage. Having their slots filled all the time is just costing ve and tS resources and rebuild time. The longer the war goes on the less guardian and SK need to think about getting out, it's going to hurt more for ve as it will be so cheap for g+SK to rebuild and since they havnt paid the reps they can afford it. Interesting turn of events we havnt seen come to fruition before.

[Goldie]

Quick question: if it's not about the money, why is the payment quantity non-negotiable? It's between 3.5 m and 3 m per Guard and SK member respectively. Compared to total damages dealt, the numbers are reasonable, but compared to Guard and SK's ability to pay, it may not be.

 

If the question is whether or not Guard/SK is hurt enough as a consequence of this war, push them down below 500 avg score and collect reps below the 100m figure. If the question is regards to reps representing contrition and punishment, 100m is not necessary, and even at 50m per alliance it is considerably higher on a per-capita basis than what was given for Mensa HQ.

 

If it's about pure implementation of will, well, that has rarely worked out in my experience.

Even the most broken down Guardian nations can make 3.5 million in a couple of days. The terms offered allow for 10 days for full payment. Accepting those terms today means Guardian might only have to raise their taxes 10-20% more than they normally are, and easily be able to pay them off. 3 days ago, they wouldn't have even have had to raise their taxes to pay. The problem for Guardian isn't not being able to pay, its that the longer this goes on, the higher % they'll have to tax to pay the penalty. That's something they've decided to do, not something we are forcing them to do.

[Prefonteen]

This is great, guardian and SK are very quickly getting into a position where the war is only stopping them rebuild, and doing very little monetary damage. Having their slots filled all the time is just costing ve and tS resources and rebuild time. The longer the war goes on the less guardian and SK need to think about getting out, it's going to hurt more for ve as it will be so cheap for g+SK to rebuild and since they havnt paid the reps they can afford it. Interesting turn of events we havnt seen come to fruition before.

I sup pose there is something interesting to be found in every situation. Be that as it may. tS continues to support its allies.

[Goldie]

This is great, guardian and SK are very quickly getting into a position where the war is only stopping them rebuild, and doing very little monetary damage. Having their slots filled all the time is just costing ve and tS resources and rebuild time. The longer the war goes on the less guardian and SK need to think about getting out, it's going to hurt more for ve as it will be so cheap for g+SK to rebuild and since they havnt paid the reps they can afford it. Interesting turn of events we havnt seen come to fruition before.

On the contrary, most of our guys have already spent their resources militarizing, and Guardian and SK are so beat down that in many cases, we don't have to spend a single resource on soldiers, planes, tanks, or ships to win immense triumphs in every attack, and only require munitions or gas for air/ship strikes. For Guardian or SK to defend themselves even minimally, they have to spend resources that many of them have long since run out of, and those resources will be wasted once their next round of wars come.

[Oskar]

The war has gotten boring by now. Just end it already. It was exciting at first because we haven't had a good war since BoC vs ESA, but now that's over and nothing is happening anymore. 

[Phiney]

On the contrary, most of our guys have already spent their resources militarizing, and Guardian and SK are so beat down that in many cases, we don't have to spend a single resource on soldiers, planes, tanks, or ships to win immense triumphs in every attack, and only require munitions or gas for air/ship strikes. For Guardian or SK to defend themselves even minimally, they have to spend resources that many of them have long since run out of, and those resources will be wasted once their next round of wars come.

 

Correct. What I mean is, if I were them I would simply not try and defend until I was very very low on infra. At this point infra damage cost has to be pretty minimal. The resource cost to use the planes, ships and tanks for VE and tS is more than the damage you guys are doing (or will be sometime soon) and to keep rebuying the minimal losses. Maybe buy a daily missile if I can, and just keep throwing them at you because when they hit they will do 3x the damage of ones they take. There's just no point paying reps at this point IMO.

[Lu Xun]

If you attack someone and lose utterly, you don't get to dictate terms for surrender. You should expect to pay, one way or another. That's particularly true when slimy plans were revealed for all to see. Mensa suffered as a result of those plans; we followed the lead from SK and Guardian, in ignorance and inexperience, and we paid the price.

We totally did, but that's outside your experience. o/ l0c0, o/ Natan.

[Boony]

Correct. What I mean is, if I were them I would simply not try and defend until I was very very low on infra. At this point infra damage cost has to be pretty minimal. The resource cost to use the planes, ships and tanks for VE and tS is more than the damage you guys are doing (or will be sometime soon) and to keep rebuying the minimal losses. Maybe buy a daily missile if I can, and just keep throwing them at you because when they hit they will do 3x the damage of ones they take. There's just no point paying reps at this point IMO.

No reps =war is not over

We can wait for them to rebuild and tear them down again

Also the upper tiers will be building up in the mean time.

[Impero]

Correct. What I mean is, if I were them I would simply not try and defend until I was very very low on infra. At this point infra damage cost has to be pretty minimal. The resource cost to use the planes, ships and tanks for VE and tS is more than the damage you guys are doing (or will be sometime soon) and to keep rebuying the minimal losses. Maybe buy a daily missile if I can, and just keep throwing them at you because when they hit they will do 3x the damage of ones they take. There's just no point paying reps at this point IMO.

 

I think this myth has basically all but been completely disproved at this point. Just look at the stats since they left beige. Many, if not most, of the attackers at this point are completely self sufficient, and SK and Guardian just simply continue to lose while everyone else continues to be stable. The only cost as of now is in rebuilding time. 

 

Once again, your concept was a popular line of thought prior to this war before anything long term such as this was done on a large scale. However, now it has. We aren't guessing about what will happen and at what point X,Y, or Z comes into play any longer. You and your top tier friends were basically wrong, so just like your opinion in the other thread happened to be based on something that was no longer true, you should adjust your party line.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Impero

[Tim Armstrong]

Impero, we have acknowledged that Guardian's members did not support what was planned by SK and Shellhound. Our members gave a lot of thought to the required reps and decided for several reasons to decline. We hold honor, loyalty, and integrity as our core values and these guide us. We will survive.

[Smooth]

Impero, we have acknowledged that Guardian's members did not support what was planned by SK and Shellhound. Our members gave a lot of thought to the required reps and decided for several reasons to decline. We hold honor, loyalty, and integrity as our core values and these guide us. We will survive.

One might say the honorable man would own up to his mistakes. Words are wind.

[Impero]

Impero, we have acknowledged that Guardian's members did not support what was planned by SK and Shellhound. Our members gave a lot of thought to the required reps and decided for several reasons to decline. We hold honor, loyalty, and integrity as our core values and these guide us. We will survive.

 

First, I have no doubt you will survive. Much smaller because of your pride, but you will undoubtedly survive. And I sincerely hope you do.

 

As for the rest, I fear the disconnect is too great. An "acknowledgement" is not enough, you must show your acceptance of responsibility through action. As for your reasons, they have absolutely nothing to do with honor, loyalty, or integrity, and everything to do with pride and entitlement.

 

Set the pride and entitlement aside, nothing about Guardian makes you exempt from the common sense or having to adhere to the same standard everyone else is held to. Only then will you be able to move on.

[Phiney]

I think this myth has basically all but been completely disproved at this point. Just look at the stats since they left beige. Many, if not most, of the attackers at this point are completely self sufficient, and SK and Guardian just simply continue to lose while everyone else continues to be stable. The only cost as of now is in rebuilding time. 

 

Once again, your concept was a popular line of thought prior to this war before anything long term such as this was done on a large scale. However, now it has. We aren't guessing about what will happen and at what point X,Y, or Z comes into play any longer. You and your top tier friends were basically wrong, so just like your opinion in the other thread happened to be based on something that was no longer true, you should adjust your party line.

 

The myth you claimed to have dispelled earlier was that when beaten down, the members of g+sk will be able to be victorious in their wars and do more damage, this is a completely different "myth". Regardless, I think it's a bit too early to call the myth disproved. Looks like they're not gunna pay, so give it a few more rounds ey. I'm just trying to involve myself in this drama as much as possible, as I'm sure there will be very little activity after the war when peace descends on orbis for the next ~5 or so months at least. Not really looking forward to the only posts being about elections and treaties. There is very little upper tier gameplay on orbis, so I can foresee much inactivity abounding unless Sheepy implements some high tier game play interest (as I'm sure he is working on thinking up).

[Kadin]

VE has my support in extracting reparations for the unprovoked attacks by Guardian and SK.

[Pubs Dignity]

VE has my support in extracting reparations for the unprovoked attacks by Guardian and SK.

 

Kadin supporting something anti-guardian.  

[Buorhann]

If you attack someone and lose utterly, you don't get to dictate terms for surrender. You should expect to pay, one way or another. That's particularly true when slimy plans were revealed for all to see. Mensa suffered as a result of those plans; we followed the lead from SK and Guardian, in ignorance and inexperience, and we paid the price.

 

 

I was willing to pay that price.  We got a war that was frustratingly fun ( At least for me ).  I wouldn't mind jumping in the fray with Seven Kingdoms and Guardian again.

 

People put too much value into a browser based game that only requires you to check in once or twice a day.

[Aisha Greyjoy]

There is very little upper tier gameplay on orbis, so I can foresee much inactivity abounding unless Sheepy implements some high tier game play interest (as I'm sure he is working on thinking up).

Should have stuck it out with me on Fraggle!  That whole "Upper tier" thing, you wouldn't be so lonely anymore

[Jodo]

Impero, we have acknowledged that Guardian's members did not support what was planned by SK and Shellhound. Our members gave a lot of thought to the required reps and decided for several reasons to decline. We hold honor, loyalty, and integrity as our core values and these guide us. We will survive.

Tim, I love you. Really.

 

But honor, integrity, and loyalty shouldn't be used to defend the fact you are still supporting SK after all the shit they did. They don't follow those standards. Plus, your previous alliance leader kind of dropped the ball with the honor, integrity, and loyalty thing.

 

If Guardian wants to be the honorable party, have even a shred of integrity, then they should take a hard look at their loyalties.

[Prefontaine]

You have no idea how things work around here. The lower you beat them down, the unpreventable chaos they can cause. I'm glad to see these two alliances not accepting garbage reparation terms. Accept no reparations. The leaders responsible for the transgressions in Guardian especially were dealt with. White peace or bust. Make their lower tier bleed for the greed of the leaders. Cost them constant increased bills for needing to always field a military. Make sure they can switch over to peace time economies because they have to repel constant raids.

 

The betters that came before VE realized that the longer you drag out a war you're winning in overwhelming fashion, it quickly becomes extremely more costly for the winning side after a few rounds of war. Soon enough you'll have the upper hand in terms of cost of damages. Soon enough just soldier counts will be enough to win on the ground over your targets. Soon enough they'll want peace without strings, for they are a bad joke as it stands.

[Isolatar]

You have no idea how things work around here. The lower you beat them down, the unpreventable chaos they can cause. I'm glad to see these two alliances not accepting garbage reparation terms. Accept no reparations. The leaders responsible for the transgressions in Guardian especially were dealt with. White peace or bust. Make their lower tier bleed for the greed of the leaders. Cost them constant increased bills for needing to always field a military. Make sure they can switch over to peace time economies because they have to repel constant raids.

 

The betters that came before VE realized that the longer you drag out a war you're winning in overwhelming fashion, it quickly becomes extremely more costly for the winning side after a few rounds of war. Soon enough you'll have the upper hand in terms of cost of damages. Soon enough just soldier counts will be enough to win on the ground over your targets. Soon enough they'll want peace without strings, for they are a bad joke as it stands.

 

Please do cry some more about your ex alliance getting demolished 

[Prefontaine]

Please do cry some more about your ex alliance getting demolished 

 

Please drag out the war and likely cost VE 100M in extra upkeep every 4-ish days.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Judge Dredd

[Buorhann]

Like I stated before, somebody has to play the villain to keep interest in browser games.

 

Some people put too much value into pixel browser games and do not appreciate a good villainous moment to keep interest in said game.

 

EDIT:

 

In this situation, it would be best to keep the terms negotiable.  You can't permanently keep Seven Kingdoms and Guardian down.  It just won't be feasible, eventually.  Learn from their mistake, there was a lot of bad blood still being harbored towards them from a past event.  If this keeps up, sometime in the future they'll use this as a means of getting pay back, then it'll just go on back and forth.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Buorhann

[Isolatar]

Please drag out the war and likely cost VE 100M in extra upkeep every 4-ish days.

 

Not my choice sadly

[Kadin]

You have no idea how things work around here. The lower you beat them down, the unpreventable chaos they can cause. I'm glad to see these two alliances not accepting garbage reparation terms. Accept no reparations. The leaders responsible for the transgressions in Guardian especially were dealt with. White peace or bust. Make their lower tier bleed for the greed of the leaders. Cost them constant increased bills for needing to always field a military. Make sure they can switch over to peace time economies because they have to repel constant raids.

 

The betters that came before VE realized that the longer you drag out a war you're winning in overwhelming fashion, it quickly becomes extremely more costly for the winning side after a few rounds of war. Soon enough you'll have the upper hand in terms of cost of damages. Soon enough just soldier counts will be enough to win on the ground over your targets. Soon enough they'll want peace without strings, for they are a bad joke as it stands.

The only thing we're going to see as a result of Guardian gov's stubborn incompetence is a slow slide into inactivity for the majority of their members. It's already happening, and it will continue,