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Libertarian vs Socialism


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Libertarian-Society-Utopian-Society.jpg

 

I think it is obvious what we should choose if we want to have spaceships and be accepted into intergalactic society. Libertarians just don't understand.. .

Edited by Mayor
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Libertarian society:

 

600d7a_102412cloud3.jpg?itok=y4z6OULN

 

Socialist Society:

 

purewal-1984-general-splsh.jpg

 

Fictional movies are not the best place to search for political truth. Also, doesn't Picard's brother own a vineyard in Star Trek? Can't own producing assets in socialist societies, comrade.

Edited by Syrup
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High Priest of Dio

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Libertarian-Society-Utopian-Society.jpg

 

I think it is obvious what we should choose if we want to have spaceships and be accepted into intergalactic society. Libertarians just don't understand.. .

Could we combine both of those images? That would be kind of badass.

Imperator Emeritus of the IAA, The Last Francoist, Ivan's Eye, Hand of the King, Senator, SHADOWS Commander, Order Hero


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"The Voice of the People is the Voice of God" - Queen Liliuokalani

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Is this a serious post? Haha. Free People are much more prosperous.

 

 

Why do we have to choose one or the other? Socialism doesn't have to be inherently oppressive, and Libertarianism doesn't necessarily result in prosperity for everyone.

Edited by Estelle
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The movies are a bit extreme but that is what makes them good to watch.

Also no one accumulates anything apparently in the Federation and they don't use money. I can't believe he was corrupt. . . Maybe the planet the vineyard was on was still a capitalistic society.

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Fascism shall overcome these ideologies. 

Dude, what is your obsession with evil stuff? I mean, Francisco Franco Bah, and Fascism. I mean, I know Fascism isn't evil, but if you think of the most famous fascist movement you think of Nazi Germany, Italy under Mussolini, and Spain under Franco. 

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The movies are a bit extreme but that is what makes them good to watch.

Also no one accumulates anything apparently in the Federation and they don't use money. I can't believe he was corrupt. . . Maybe the planet the vineyard was on was still a capitalistic society.

 

Scotty bought a boat in another episode, soooo....

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High Priest of Dio

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Fictional movies are not the best place to search for political truth. Also, doesn't Picard's brother own a vineyard in Star Trek? Can't own producing assets in socialist societies, comrade.

 

Well, let's think about it for a second. Did the Picard Family Vineyard produce wine for money? Or did they do it because it was just traditional for the family to produce wine? The same thing with the Sisko family restaurant in New Orleans: were those there to make a profit or do allow people to do what they truly wanted to do in life? You could always make your own wine or gumbo with a replicator, but people still wanted to do it by hand. If the premise of a socialist society is that all needs are taken of, but where human abilities can still flourish, then the existence of the vineyard does not disprove that premise.

 

Also, did you just post the scene of Cloud Atlas where human beings are literally commoditized as a good example of a libertarian society? You do know that's meant to be a dystopia, right? Not the same dystopia as 1984, but still a dystopia.

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I don't think it was meant to be a good example as the socialist was a totalitarian future. I think it was more directed towards movies being poor examples for arguments.

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Well, let's think about it for a second. Did the Picard Family Vineyard produce wine for money? Or did they do it because it was just traditional for the family to produce wine? The same thing with the Sisko family restaurant in New Orleans: were those there to make a profit or do allow people to do what they truly wanted to do in life? You could always make your own wine or gumbo with a replicator, but people still wanted to do it by hand. If the premise of a socialist society is that all needs are taken of, but where human abilities can still flourish, then the existence of the vineyard does not disprove that premise.

 

Also, did you just post the scene of Cloud Atlas where human beings are literally commoditized as a good example of a libertarian society? You do know that's meant to be a dystopia, right? Not the same dystopia as 1984, but still a dystopia.

 

I think you misunderstood the intention of the two pictures.

 

The private ownership of a vineyard would go completely against both the premise and practical application of socialism, which is where the confusion comes from. I'm unsure what your point is.

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High Priest of Dio

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Is this a serious post? Haha. Free People are much more prosperous.

 

Is this a serious post? Are you legitimately trying to claim that people in Socialist societies can't be/aren't free? C'mon, don't be ridiculous.

 

1947868_489131357858637_1598332880_n.jpg

 

If you think you're so free under Capitalism because it allows you to pursue an endless amount of distractions, you must be blinded by said distractions.

 

If you're not a capitalist, which usually means someone who has invested substantial capital, then you all you own is your body & mind, and all you can do is rent yourself out to work. You don't own your workplace, the supplies you use, the resources you use, the financial assets you use, or the end result of your work. You only get what the Capitalist gives you, and thus you are nothing more than a wage slave, forced to work for the prosperity of someone else.

 

Greed is a great motivator, until it isn't. Few things corrupt more.

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orwell_s_1984_oceania_s_currency_by_dungsc127_d97k1zt-fullview.jpg.9994c8f495b96849443aa0defa8730be.jpg

 

 

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Dude, what is your obsession with evil stuff? I mean, Francisco Franco Bah, and Fascism. I mean, I know Fascism isn't evil, but if you think of the most famous fascist movement you think of !@#$ Germany, Italy under Mussolini, and Spain under Franco. 

Fascism shall overcome these ideologies. 

If we want to argue about Fascism let's do it in another thread eh. 

 

And for the record Hitler's Germany wasn't Fascism.. it was National Socialism... regardless another thread I'll gladly enter into this debate

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If we want to argue about Fascism let's do it in another thread eh. 

 

And for the record Hitler's Germany wasn't Fascism.. it was National Socialism... regardless another thread I'll gladly enter into this debate

We're not supposed to talk about this but National Socialism used Fascist concepts
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We're not supposed to talk about this but National Socialism used Fascist concepts

Aye much like Maoism and Stalinism used concepts of Communism... but regardless moving along

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If you think you're so free under Capitalism because it allows you to pursue an endless amount of distractions, you must be blinded by said distractions.

 

If you're not a capitalist, which usually means someone who has invested substantial capital, then you all you own is your body & mind, and all you can do is rent yourself out to work. You don't own your workplace, the supplies you use, the resources you use, the financial assets you use, or the end result of your work. You only get what the Capitalist gives you, and thus you are nothing more than a wage slave, forced to work for the prosperity of someone else.

I feel free. And so does a cab driver, who is a legal immigrant, in Los Angeles. He drives a cab, but one of his sons opened up a restaurant. His other son is in the navy. (I can't remember his rank, though.) Capitalism lets you climb the ladder, get on a different ladder, go down the ladder, jump off of the ladder and be self sustaining, or sit at the top of the ladder. It is all what you want to do. 

 

I have had $500 in a stock account for shits and giggles.

I have $501.58 in a stock account for shits and giggles. 

D-did I do good? 

 

Oh, and I don't want to get hurt in a socialist society. I don't like long hospital waits. 

NODOLsmall.png.a7aa9c0a05fa266425cd7e83d8ccb3dd.png

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Because all socialist societies have long hospital waits? Laughable statement. C'mon, don't be a facile stereotype, you can do better.

 

It's truly remarkable, astonishing, almost entertaining how utterly fooled and duped some of you have been into believing that Capitalism is a sustainable system that's good for everyone. It's perhaps one of the Capitalists' strongest means, the ability to trick people into fighting their cause for them, and making you believe that it's for your own good.

 

It's not you, the workers that benefit from Capitalism. Compared to the capital owners, you get mere scraps, while they get unproportional amounts of wealth, influence, and resources. You would consider a system that allows the rich to become richer and richer and richer, while every 6 seconds a child dies from starvation, to be a fair system. What a joke! A complete, puerile absurdity!

 

This is Capitalism in a nutshell:

 

3vI3OCO.png

 

Makes so much sense, right? :rolleyes:

 

Throughout the entire course of history, rulers have thought of their own social system as the one we will all be a part of, forever. They have always been wrong.

 

Capitalism was a magnificent force when it got rid off feudalism, it was a wonderfully progressive force that brought society many many years forward. It led to a massive increase in, and development of mankind's productive capabilities, and in many parts of the world it has led to great material and social progress.

 

But anyone with a clear mind can now see that it has outlived its usefulness. It's not only a threat to human beings, but to the nature of our entire planet.

 

It is not in any way rational or beneficial for a small majority to own the means of production, exploiting those who actually do work and create value, and destroying the planet's resources, thus robbing future generations of their livelihood, only to increase their own wealth. It is morally abhorrent, and utterly disgusting.

 

Capitalism is unsustainable, and through history it has gone from crisis to crisis. Since the Long Depression in 1873, all the way up to the financial crisis in 2008, and they will only keep happening until enough people have become fed up with it, and then that will be the end of it.

 

You don't have to believe me, and I don't really have to convince you. It's only a matter of time. If you want to keep fooling yourself and genuinely believing in your misconceptions about Socialism, go right ahead buddy.

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orwell_s_1984_oceania_s_currency_by_dungsc127_d97k1zt-fullview.jpg.9994c8f495b96849443aa0defa8730be.jpg

 

 

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What you refer to as Capitalism and the destruction of the earth is in fact not an element of capitalism but of Central banking and fiat monetary systems that empowers the state and in turn maintained by the power of the state.

Monopoly on the money supplies and heavily restricted or even outright ban on non fiat currencies allows the owners of the central bank to inflate the currency with few legal options to dodge the inflation that comes with it inflation combined with welfare both corporate and other discourage saving and encourage rampant consumerism by way of lowering the value of each unit of currency making it smarter to trade the currency for whatever it will buy rather then holding onto it.

You can't have central banking and capitalism at the same time if the money supply is not also subject to the market then nothing the money supply is used for is subject to the market.

 

Wars lead to Debts lead to Taxes lead to Revolts lead to Wars.

 

The comic of yours suggests everyone is stupid but if everyone is stupid then even national leaders are stupid and thus unable to lead and your capitalist fat cat is too stupid to trick his employes to work for nothing, careful lest you be called out as a bigot for suggesting the poor are dumb.

Edited by Quew
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