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On the situation in Baltimore


Franz Joseph
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For those of you who may not know, Baltimore is currently dealing with sporadic riots due to the death of a young Black man in police custody. cars have been damaged and burnt, and there is even a rumor going about that the three major gangs of Baltimore may launch offensives against the police. So I just want to know, what is P&W's opinion on this (not a debate, if I wanted one I would've posted in the debate subforum). Thanks.

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baltimore ppl are noobs it should have been nuked like in the movie

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I get it, these people are angry, but is violent rioting that harms innocent individuals in the community, such as store owners who are being robbed in the chaos, the right way to go about expressing that anger? I don't think so, not in the slightest.

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This is the type of !@#$ I'm talking about - https://imgur.com/a/ReITb

 

When there's an injustice, one should not respond with injustices of their own. It's painfully hypocritical.

 

Peaceful protest is perfectly fine with me. Kudos to the ones responding in a reasonable manner to this as opposed to resorting to barbarism.

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I don't blame them.

 

As a white male, I won't pretend to even begin to understand the anger and suffering African-Americans have gone through ever since they were pretty much kidnapped, shipped across the ocean and put at the mercy of caucasians. Whatever some protesters have done in Baltimore, it's nothing in comparison to horrors they have experienced and continue to experience as a people.

 

While I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to loot and committ violent acts, I get it. In fact, I think citizens of the United States should consider themselves extremely lucky you haven't had to face an armed rebellion already, which would be entirely justified.

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Yeah, I don't blame them for reacting to violence with violence. Our nation has major racial issues that seem to be getting progressively worse and involve the police as aggressors more and more. In my opinion, people should get outside of their comfort zone and meet people who aren't like them. A systemic change is needed in society that can't be forced by laws or brute power. If we sought to understand each other more not only would it be a safer place, it would also be more interesting.

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I would also like to point out that violence is not the same as property damage, as violence has to be directed towards people and not inanimate objects. If anything, we should be upset by the fact that the police murdered a man they had in their custody, not by people rioting over it.

 

And you know, it's not like white people ever riot over sports or anything like that :rolleyes:

orwell_s_1984_oceania_s_currency_by_dungsc127_d97k1zt-fullview.jpg.9994c8f495b96849443aa0defa8730be.jpg

 

 

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This is really !@#$ing dumb. This is why nothing gets done. Yippe, they go on a destruction spree to let out their frustration. Then the media paints them as criminals and people like me start to lose faith and support in the cause. The person who owned that store is !@#$ed. Great job! The problem is not solved this way. Comon guys, learn from history. MLK and Ghandi are geniuses. Learn from them. Actual peaceful protests and civil disobedience solves problems.

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MLK was peaceful, shot. Malcolm X was violent, shot. If MLK's peaceful approach and peaceful protests in general are so successful, why does institutionalized racism and discrimination remain a part of the American system? Why doesn't it change? Why didn't it stop with MLK, or in the decades after his death? Because in this case, a peaceful movement doesn't work. In every other case I'd agree because peaceful movements are more likely to gain popular support, but this doesn't seem to be the case when the people in the movement are an ethnic minority, fighting against the oppression of the majority.

 

As for Gandhi, he was assassinated as well and the case of India is wildly different from the case of the United States.

 

And to be fair, the police were totally instigating and antagonizing the protesters. They met high school kids in full riot gear straight out of school, refused to let them on their school buses, and they're not even bothering to direct traffic in the chaos that they created. They want things to get out of hand, so they can paint the protesters in a negative manner, like you said. But If you're incapable of seeing through the slander and false coat of paint, then that's on you, not the protesters.

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This is really !@#$ dumb. This is why nothing gets done. Yippe, they go on a destruction spree to let out their frustration. Then the media paints them as criminals and people like me start to lose faith and support in the cause. The person who owned that store is !@#$ed. Great job! The problem is not solved this way. Comon guys, learn from history. MLK and Ghandi are geniuses. Learn from them. Actual peaceful protests and civil disobedience solves problems.

 

do you even know what civil disobedience means?

 

peaceful protesting doesn't do shit. learn from history yourself: gandhi was racist against black people and he advised jews to stop resisting the holocaust.

 

and mlk was nothing. the black panthers handed out food to people and patrolled the streets armed and shot cops. they advocated a complete overthrow of the us government - as did many groups during that time. things change in history not because of politicians but because of real resistance.

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MLK was peaceful, shot. Malcolm X was violent, shot. If MLK's peaceful approach and peaceful protests in general are so successful, why does institutionalized racism and discrimination remain a part of the American system? Why doesn't it change? Why didn't it stop with MLK, or in the decades after his death? Because in this case, a peaceful movement doesn't work. In every other case I'd agree because peaceful movements are more likely to gain popular support, but this doesn't seem to be the case when the people in the movement are an ethnic minority, fighting against the oppression of the majority.

 

As for Gandhi, he was assassinated as well and the case of India is wildly different from the case of the United States.

 

And to be fair, the police were totally instigating and antagonizing the protesters. They met high school kids in full riot gear straight out of school, refused to let them on their school buses, and they're not even bothering to direct traffic in the chaos that they created. They want things to get out of hand, so they can paint the protesters in a negative manner, like you said. But If you're incapable of seeing through the slander and false coat of paint, then that's on you, not the protesters.

Can you honestly see those looters and think, "Oh yeah, they must be looting because they are completely outraged at the injustice in our system." Or even, if they starting attacking the cops. Some of those cops are probably nice guys who do their job the right way. Whether or not the peaceful way will actually change the problem is arguable, BUT violence will never change the prejudices in America. That is a fact. Now hypothetically, if every single African American decided to be completely peaceful, I guarantee you prejudices will die down.

 

do you even know what civil disobedience means?

 

peaceful protesting doesn't do !@#$. learn from history yourself: gandhi was racist against black people and he advised jews to stop resisting the holocaust.

 

and mlk was nothing. the black panthers handed out food to people and patrolled the streets armed and shot cops. they advocated a complete overthrow of the us government - as did many groups during that time. things change in history not because of politicians but because of real resistance.

 

Never knew Gandhi was racist. Mute point though, when it comes to his ideology.

Yes, black panthers did do a lot of good. Yes they helped the civil rights movement. But they also added to the institutionalized racism existing in America. Malcom X enforced the "us vs them" mentality. Nothing will change that way. You solve short term problems but not the long term. 

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Never knew Gandhi was racist. Mute point though, when it comes to his ideology.

Yes, black panthers did do a lot of good. Yes they helped the civil rights movement. But they also added to the institutionalized racism existing in America. Malcom X enforced the "us vs them" mentality. Nothing will change that way. You solve short term problems but not the long term. 

 

You ignored the part about telling the Jews to willfully go to their deaths.

 

Malcolm X later repudiated his original anti-white Elijah Muhammad stuff. There is ignorance from both black persons and white persons in regard to racial matters, but there's a big difference between a group like the KKK, a group like the police department, and the black panther party for self-defense. One is a hate group, one is a hate group that is a public institution, and the third was organized in self-defense against the government.

 

It would be wonderful if everything could be solved peacefully, but it is always the oppressors who take choice away from the oppressed. The extent to which we are forced to go to secure our freedom is a direct reflection of the lengths that the oppressors are willing to go to ensure our subjugation.

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You ignored the part about telling the Jews to willfully go to their deaths.

 

Malcolm X later repudiated his original anti-white Elijah Muhammad stuff. There is ignorance from both black persons and white persons in regard to racial matters, but there's a big difference between a group like the KKK, a group like the police department, and the black panther party for self-defense. One is a hate group, one is a hate group that is a public institution, and the third was organized in self-defense against the government.

 

It would be wonderful if everything could be solved peacefully, but it is always the oppressors who take choice away from the oppressed. The extent to which we are forced to go to secure our freedom is a direct reflection of the lengths that the oppressors are willing to go to ensure our subjugation.

 

Well actually, the thought of no resistance to the holocaust rubs me the wrong way. I'd rather not comment on how peacefulness would work with that because I am not sure if it does. Now I'm thinking of reading the book: Gandhi Behind the Mask of Divinity. 

 

No doubt. But lets be honest, people don't give a !@#$. They see violent black people and they justify their racism in their minds . Compare this to these riots. A lot of Americans are probably in their homes thinking "these damn savages." 

 

 

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This is what happens when people don't listen...

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¨Hey guys!¨

¨Yeah?¨

¨I got this GREAT idea!!!¨

¨What is it?¨

¨Let's rob our own shops, burn them, assault the people who are supposed to protect us, destroy millions in property and steal whatever is left behind! That'll get our message across!¨

¨Great idea!¨

 

see the funny thing is that these riots actually have been remarkably more effective at widening the conversation than nonviolent protest

 

by the way, if I went out today with some pals and burned down the optician on the corner, would anybody accuse us of burning down 'our own shops'

 

think before you try to be clever

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If they tried that in any stores down here, the owners would shoot them. You want to smash some shit up, go smash up police cars, the mayor basically said it was cool. Don't go &#33;@#&#036; over the guy who is busting his ass to keep his store open.

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This is the type of !@#$ I'm talking about - https://imgur.com/a/ReITb

 

When there's an injustice, one should not respond with injustices of their own. It's painfully hypocritical.

 

Peaceful protest is perfectly fine with me. Kudos to the ones responding in a reasonable manner to this as opposed to resorting to barbarism.

 

I agree 100% with this ^^^

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Yo guys, OP here. Kind request to simmer down pl0x.

 

no

 

If they tried that in any stores down here, the owners would shoot them. You want to smash some !@#$ up, go smash up police cars, the mayor basically said it was cool. Don't go !@#$ over the guy who is busting his ass to keep his store open.

 

unarmed black people would be shot dead? how does that distinguish your region of the united states from any other?

 

Domestic unrest is an exception in most insurance policies.  Those storeowners lost everything and insurance likely wont' cover it.  Would you open a store in one of "those" neighborhoods?

 

No, I wouldn't, because the neighborhoods have been segregated, brutalized and deprived for so long that there isn't enough money to sustain my prospective business. If the plight of storeowners plagues you so much then let me assuage your suffering with this silver lining: those storeowners have one thing that a certain Baltimorean doesn't have: a functioning spinal cord.

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unarmed black people would be shot dead? how does that distinguish your region of the united states from any other?

 

People coming on to private property to steal things, break things, and in some cases set shit on fire...yes, they would be shot. Not sure if you've been to New Orleans before, but generally speaking trying to rip off gas stations is ill advised around here. Almost all of them keep a weapon behind the counter and/or in the back room(s).

☾☆ Chairman Emeritus of Mensa HQ ☾☆

"It's not about the actual fish, themselves. Fish are not important in this context. It's about fish-ing, the act of fishing itself." -Jack O'Neill

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When people feel alone and unsupported by their community they are going to take matters into their own hands in the best way they know how. The rioters, the shop keepers, the police, they are likely all acting in a manner that they feel will best protect what is most dear to them. 

 

I don't have a solution but I can't help that think if everyone valued and respected each other as human beings, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or socio-economic class there would be less violence and property damage in Baltimore (and everywhere). 

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There is no 'feeling' that justifies tearing up people's shops the way they are doing. Nor busting up cars/houses/whatever.

 

I can understand wanting to respond to a police force you feel is being unjustly violent, oppressive, and/or non-responsive. I cannot understand what Mr. Thompson's 711 has to do with any of that.

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☾☆ Chairman Emeritus of Mensa HQ ☾☆

"It's not about the actual fish, themselves. Fish are not important in this context. It's about fish-ing, the act of fishing itself." -Jack O'Neill

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it is happening

the proletariat are rising up against the rich and the capitalist pigs that rule society. this is skirmish before the class warfare that will happen in the future where the entire black working class population will rebal against the bourgeois. the bourgeois have enslaved the black population making it look like slavery is not around. that is a lie slavery is still happening today against the proletariat

 

the bourgeois are disgusting they make black people work to fuel their capitalist empire and kill innocent socialist people in iraq and vietnam. shops like the ones smashed up that people have posted at blacks striking out against capitalism and the exploitation of them. i hope many more shops and buisnesses are smashed and revolution starts against america. capitalism should be destroyed and buisness owners are worse then mass murderers for then endorsement of the system

 

as normal. the capitalist fascist goverment of america will send in police to murder the working class. if capitalists cannot win intellegently, they get guns out and shoot you. they did it to MLK, he was assainated by the CIA. if we did not have capitalism and private ownership, this wouldnt be problem. everybody would be equal and happy in totalitrian society. white police officers that killed black people would be executed for murder. slavery comes from capitalism and private ownership and only way to get rid of it is get rid of capitalism.

 

i hope the revolution works!

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