Gustav Dvornik Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 It was good while it lasted comrade...Hope to see the left rise again someday...o/ SocInt !! 1 Quote THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF ESTOVAKIA Join the Socialist International now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pol Pot Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 this is sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonnorman Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I dont think you guys have quite the right info about socialism, communism, capitalism, and even lenin/marxism to be judging the !@#$ out of peoples alliances. But its a game have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppilan Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 hmm all the best pirate ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 An end but also a beginning 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niemand Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Delete this please, something went wrong. All is fine in my next post. Edited April 16, 2015 by Niemand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niemand Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Xenodolf, the Nordic countries are not socialist countries. Socialism requires worker ownership of the means of production; the Nordic countries are better classified as welfare states, or social democratic states. They also rely heavily on their oil production to sustain their high standards of living. Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Norway... the only reason countries like these can support welfare states is from state-owned oil revenue. And yes, there is a difference between "state-owned" and "worker-owned" means of production. But actually, the Nordic countries have been going through a massive economic liberalisation in the past few years, and they're already starting to feel it. Capitalism is unsustainable; the "democratic socialist" notions that we can just reform capitalism so that everybody has a nice big welfare state aren't based in reality. Look at how skimpy the US welfare system is compared to Europe, and understand that we have the most powerful economy in the world. Europe and North America are benefiting from a sort of global economic colonialism through which cheap labor and cheap resources are extracted from disadvantaged countries and pumped into the US as consumer products. But if the Chinese start getting paid what we would have to be paid to make those iPads, the cost is going to go up, meaning our quality of life goes down. Unless, of course, they can find a new source of labor. But they're steady running out of that, along with all of the other resources that we waste and throw in landfills by the truckload. Some people think the solution to the problem of scarcity is nationalism, with high tariffs and militarism. To, like the US, attempt to dominate the capitalist system and exploit others to increase your own quality of life. I tend to think the best solution is to just get rid of capitalism entirely. But people think that it's utopian to have democracy in the workplace. Or that people just aren't good enough to recognize that it's in all of our long-term interests to abolish capitalism and to then cooperate in doing so. But, well, !@#$ them, we'll just kill them and throw them in the fi-- no I'm just kidding. I agree the Nordic states are not socialist but social democratic states. States are in my opinion not an answer against capitalism and I think socialism is needed very hard. However I am curious, what oil do the Swedish and the Danish have? I do like their attitude to have high taxes and share their nation wealth. They do educate their citizens very and education is a prime source to a good living standard. I think there are no real socialist states on earth now. I am pragmatic, not revolutionary and I do think some nations are closer to make it possible that some socialist system can be possible and the Nordic states are one of the best in these hard times. I agree nationalism is a no go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayayay Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I agree nationalism is a no go.Niemand, what are you? Most players here are Americans, you are? Quote Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avruch Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I don't see how the statements "there are no socialist states on earth" and "socialism is needed very badly" can go together. If a particular political system has proven to be unworkable throughout human history on any but the teeniest tiniest scale, then it simply doesn't work and people need to stop saying "Oh but it would be wonderful and magical if only we could do it right!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niemand Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) I am anarchist, the government of the nation I live in says I am a Dutch citizen though. It is not that the a system will be implied because it is the best for the most citizens, but the ones with power will enforce a system that will be the best possible for them (that is a mixture of what is possible and the best profit they get). That said, systems that do fail will be exchanged for systems somewhat better or will be exchanged for systems that do fail too like in Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya and Iraq. The so called socialist states like USSR were in my opinion not socialist at all and I am glad that almost all are vanquished (still the authoritarian states like North Korea and White Russia have such state-socialism and I do hope a regime change will be done by the citizens there). Edited April 16, 2015 by Niemand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodo Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I don't see how the statements "there are no socialist states on earth" and "socialism is needed very badly" can go together. If a particular political system has proven to be unworkable throughout human history on any but the teeniest tiniest scale, then it simply doesn't work and people need to stop saying "Oh but it would be wonderful and magical if only we could do it right!"It's one of those ideas that on paper sounds amazing. And in practice fails hilariously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayor Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Kinda like Noir. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodo Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Kinda like Noir.Exactly. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 hmm we could make Mensa go away 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 hmm we could make Mensa go away Uh oh, watch out. 1 1 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor (Old Account) Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 hmm we could make Mensa go away I'm okay with this. Quote "That ain't Cologne, that's the smell of success." 17:00 <•Sheepy> I don't want you to leave the game 19:20 <•Pubstomber>: Man, I really wish Rose had allied BoC a couple months ago when we had the chance instead of picking Vanguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 hmm we could make Mensa go away This sounds like a very interesting fight! :popcorn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'm okay with this. I think you're proof enough that you can't make people "go away". 1 2 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppilan Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I don't see how the statements "there are no socialist states on earth" and "socialism is needed very badly" can go together. Something may not be possible now, but we can still dream about it Things do change, one day it might be possible (or may not be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Farewell SI, you were my first love. o7 1 Quote I come to nurture the weak; to provide sustenance for those in need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TellUrGrlThx Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Sad to see you guys dissolve. Good luck to your members in the future and wherever they go! Quote ☾☆ Priest of Dio º¤ø„¤¤º°¨ ø„¸¸„¨ ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸ GOD EMPEROR DIO BRANDO¨°º¤ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸ DIO BRANDO GOD EMPEROR¨°º¤ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¤¤º°¨ ø„¸¸„¨ ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 It was doomed from the start, I mean you guys didn't have JackyCold anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbas Mehdi Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Pirate ships were largely egalitarian and operated like co-operatives, with many electing their captains. Really, they were a bunch of working class stiffs getting paid by the aristocracy to raid the merchants of unfriendly states. Although once you're out on the ocean, dead men tell no tales. Arrgh! is an incredibly accurate portrayal of piracy in the context of P&W, and piracy was a lot more in line with socialism than you'd think. How do you think a bunch of working class people got the kind of money to have their own political parties? Apart from the fact that some of them were from the upper classes, such as Lenin, they robbed banks. Stalin robbed banks for years to support himself and the communist movement in Tsarist Russia. If you're not willing to break the law, you're never going to get ahead - the laws were made by the people who already have money, and they are designed to keep you down. The real criminals wear suits and employ both private prison wardens and the drug runners both inside and out. Xenodolf, the Nordic countries are not socialist countries. Socialism requires worker ownership of the means of production; the Nordic countries are better classified as welfare states, or social democratic states. They also rely heavily on their oil production to sustain their high standards of living. Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Norway... the only reason countries like these can support welfare states is from state-owned oil revenue. And yes, there is a difference between "state-owned" and "worker-owned" means of production. But actually, the Nordic countries have been going through a massive economic liberalisation in the past few years, and they're already starting to feel it. Capitalism is unsustainable; the "democratic socialist" notions that we can just reform capitalism so that everybody has a nice big welfare state aren't based in reality. Look at how skimpy the US welfare system is compared to Europe, and understand that we have the most powerful economy in the world. Europe and North America are benefiting from a sort of global economic colonialism through which cheap labor and cheap resources are extracted from disadvantaged countries and pumped into the US as consumer products. But if the Chinese start getting paid what we would have to be paid to make those iPads, the cost is going to go up, meaning our quality of life goes down. Unless, of course, they can find a new source of labor. But they're steady running out of that, along with all of the other resources that we waste and throw in landfills by the truckload. Some people think the solution to the problem of scarcity is nationalism, with high tariffs and militarism. To, like the US, attempt to dominate the capitalist system and exploit others to increase your own quality of life. I tend to think the best solution is to just get rid of capitalism entirely. But people think that it's utopian to have democracy in the workplace. Or that people just aren't good enough to recognize that it's in all of our long-term interests to abolish capitalism and to then cooperate in doing so. But, well, !@#$ them, we'll just kill them and throw them in the fi-- no I'm just kidding. save the speech, i know you joined ogaden cause he is a lovable bastard. 1 Quote I am not a member of Guardian p&w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisha Greyjoy Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 The workers of the world have fallen back asleep. The capitalist running dogs exhale in relief. Quote Duke of House Greyjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) It was doomed from the start, I mean you guys didn't have JackyCold anyway. We would have, but Jaki and a couple others were martyred in the (successful) struggle against !@#$ infiltration of Orbis. e: national socialist Edited April 17, 2015 by Hereno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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