MensaHq Slaughters the Innocents.

[Kemal Ergenekon]

As Hereno is the alliance leader, you pay the reps to the bank. Regardless of if the member logs on and talks to you. You're paying the money either way, so I don't see the point in doing it Hereno's way. He should be able to decide where the reps are going.

 

But thank you for this war. #10 of my predictions is now crossed off the list. So meh.

 

I am not talking about whom to pay reparations to, or how the discussions for reparations should have proceeded. Hereno attacked our alliance leader because he didn't like the way the discussions were going. What were we supposed to do? Apologize and eat his attack?

 

Try to make some sense.

[Hereno]

I am not talking about whom to pay reparations to, or how the discussions for reparations should have proceeded. Hereno attacked our alliance leader because he didn't like the way the discussions were going. What were we supposed to do? Apologize and eat his attack?

 

Try to make some sense.

A consistent viewpoint with this would hold that the Socialist International would have been justified in declaring war on Mensa HQ after one of their members hit one of ours.... more than half a dozen times in less than a week.

 

Pfeiffer should have been thanking me for going and asking for reparations rather than having declared war, according to you.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Hereno

[Pfeiffer]

A consistent viewpoint with this would hold that the Socialist International would have been justified in declaring war on Mensa HQ after one of their members hit one of ours.... more than half a dozen times in less than a week.

 

Pfeiffer should have been thanking me for going and asking for reparations rather than having declared war, according to you.

 

Aside from the bit where I would thank you for not starting a war you couldn't win, yes.

 

You would be justified to declare war to defend your members. Instead, you wanted to profit off of the inactive one(s). I saw that one dude logged in long before you declared war, but he didn't ask for his reps. Did you even tell him he had any coming if he simply asked?

[Kemal Ergenekon]

A consistent viewpoint with this would hold that the Socialist International would have been justified in declaring war on Mensa HQ after one of their members hit one of ours.... more than half a dozen times in less than a week.

 

Pfeiffer should have been thanking me for going and asking for reparations rather than having declared war, according to you.

 

Hereno, if you think SI would have been justified in declaring a war, having actually declared the war, why are you whining about it?

 

Your statement proves that you think you had a valid casus belli, and started the war using the casus belli. Now it is time to fight the alliance war you initiated.

 

If you lose a war you declared, you shouldn't come here and cry.

[Hereno]

Aside from the bit where I would thank you for not starting a war you couldn't win, yes.

 

You would be justified to declare war to defend your members. Instead, you wanted to profit off of the inactive one(s). I saw that one dude logged in long before you declared war, but he didn't ask for his reps. Did you even tell him he had any coming if he simply asked?

 

Yes, Codius was contacted by me, told that I was going to talk with you about the raids, and given 400k cash from our bank toward rebuilding.

 

Thank you for inquiring on his behalf; I'm sure he appreciates your concern.

[Caillou]

Despite how active the member is or not it is still a member whose score and nation resides within the alliance. I think it's normal to pay reps and offer peace even for inactives out of good will and to not come across as disrespectful to another alliance - Rose has and still does pay reps and offer peace to nations that our young nations (without knowing the consequences of raiding) attack, and I'm sure several other alliances do the same. I'm not saying that Mensa should've paid extra or anything, but if you did the damage it's only common courtesy to try and fix it when the leader approaches you about it. Maybe that's just the culture I was led to believe is the norm, perhaps in other nation sims this is something entirely unheard of. 

[Hereno]

Hereno, if you think SI would have been justified in declaring a war, having actually declared the war, why are you whining about it?

 

Your statement proves that you think you had a valid casus belli, and started the war using the casus belli. Now it is time to fight the alliance war you initiated.

 

If you lose a war you declared, you shouldn't come here and cry.

 

>raids multiple members over several days

>one war in response after failed diplomacy

>over two pages of new wars declared

 

"you are the aggressor"

 

this is pathetic. i'm about done here.

[Avruch]

Despite how active the member is or not it is still a member whose score and nation resides within the alliance. I think it's normal to pay reps and offer peace even for inactives out of good will and to not come across as disrespectful to another alliance - Rose has and still does pay reps and offer peace to nations that our young nations (without knowing the consequences of raiding) attack, and I'm sure several other alliances do the same. I'm not saying that Mensa should've paid extra or anything, but if you did the damage it's only common courtesy to try and fix it when the leader approaches you about it. Maybe that's just the culture I was led to believe is the norm, perhaps in other nation sims this is something entirely unheard of. 

 

Why in a war game is it common courtesy to pay people back for doing exactly what the game mechanics encourage? If the alliances were of equal size or had diplomatic ties or there was a risk to the aggressor, then sure pay reps for strategic reasons, but I don't see why making a nation whole out of pure altruistic generosity is considered common courtesy. 

[Kemal Ergenekon]

>raids multiple members over several days

>one war in response after failed diplomacy

>over two pages of new wars declared

 

"you are the aggressor"

 

this is pathetic. i'm about done here.

 

The only pathetic thing here is that you are too immature to face the consequences of your attack on our alliance leader. Regardless of how you think the reparations issue should have been resolved, you shouldn't have attacked our alliance leader unless you wanted to initiate an alliance war.

 

You don't do ultimatum attacks against stronger alliances, bro. If you think you have been wronged, you carry it to the community so that it can be resolved peacefully. This is International Relations 101. Do not blame others for your diplomatic incompetence.

[Boony]

You guys could have just sent the reps to the "inactive" nations after Hereno asked for them. That way, if they are actually inactive, they wont accept.

[George W. Bush]

Why in a war game is it common courtesy to pay people back for doing exactly what the game mechanics encourage? If the alliances were of equal size or had diplomatic ties or there was a risk to the aggressor, then sure pay reps for strategic reasons, but I don't see why making a nation whole out of pure altruistic generosity is considered common courtesy. 

You do realize you're playing Politics and War, right?

[Avruch]

You do realize you're playing Politics and War, right?

 

Yes, I'm just not sure why people are playing it like its called Hugs & Kisses XOXO. 

[Caillou]

Why in a war game is it common courtesy to pay people back for doing exactly what the game mechanics encourage? If the alliances were of equal size or had diplomatic ties or there was a risk to the aggressor, then sure pay reps for strategic reasons, but I don't see why making a nation whole out of pure altruistic generosity is considered common courtesy. 

 

This is a game about the long term, if you make enemies early on you are going to suffer for it later. War is a part of this game but that's why you start alliance wide wars, typically with a valid cb. I'm not blaming any of you for hitting SI after the war was officially present; I'm saying it was naive of you to raid an alliance with a forum presence and active players (one of which is Hereno) and expect no response. Your obviously co-ordinated reaction to this thread at the start shows me that you guys do give a damn about the community's perspective of you, so now pretending like you don't care and are warring because "it's part of the game" is you resorting to trying to cover up the mistakes you made that were pointed out by several people on this thread and the one Hereno started. 

[George W. Bush]

Yes, I'm just not sure why people are playing it like its called Hugs & Kisses XOXO. 

You truly know nothing about either then.

[Avruch]

This is a game about the long term, if you make enemies early on you are going to suffer for it later. War is a part of this game but that's why you start alliance wide wars, typically with a valid cb. I'm not blaming any of you for hitting SI after the war was officially present; I'm saying it was naive of you to raid an alliance with a forum presence and active players (one of which is Hereno) and expect no response. Your obviously co-ordinated reaction to this thread at the start shows me that you guys do give a damn about the community's perspective of you, so now pretending like you don't care and are warring because "it's part of the game" is you resorting to trying to cover up the mistakes you made that were pointed out by several people on this thread and the one Hereno started. 

 

 

I don't know that we're all here trying to "defend our honor." Many of us honestly think the approach and reaction to war here is strange. You can see, and probably already know, that most of the Mensa HQ members started playing in the last couple of months. We all came from another game where war is the raison d'etre, so its strange to see people get actually offended at being attacked and honestly expect to be repaid. 

 

As for Wladimirsky, if you think "I demand repayment from you sir, on your honor, for your manifold transgressions" "Of course my dear sir, please specify the account" is an accurate reflection of Politics and War, please allow me to introduce you to the modern concepts of realpolitik and total war. 

Edited April 14, 2015 by Avruch

[Hereno]

I don't know that we're all here trying to "defend our honor." Many of us honestly thing the approach and reaction to war here is strange. You can see, and probably already know, that most of the Mensa HQ members started playing in the last couple of months. We all came from another game where war is the raison d'etre, so its strange to see people get actually offended at being attacked and honestly expect to be repaid. 

 

As for Wladimirsky, if you think "I demand repayment from you sir, on your honor, for your manifold transgressions" "Of course my dear sir, please specify the account" is an accurate reflection of Politics and War, please allow me to introduce you to the modern concepts of realpolitik and total war. 

 

this right here is exactly why we need an in-character alliance affairs forum.

[Buorhann]

In-character?

 

Well, would be fun on a roleplay bit, but not everybody plays games for the roleplay aspect.

[Kemal Ergenekon]

this right here is exactly why we need an in-character alliance affairs forum.

 

[Caillou]

I don't know that we're all here trying to "defend our honor." Many of us honestly thing the approach and reaction to war here is strange. You can see, and probably already know, that most of the Mensa HQ members started playing in the last couple of months. We all came from another game where war is the raison d'etre, so its strange to see people get actually offended at being attacked and honestly expect to be repaid. 

 

As for Wladimirsky, if you think "I demand repayment from you sir, on your honor, for your manifold transgressions" "Of course my dear sir, please specify the account" is an accurate reflection of Politics and War, please allow me to introduce you to the modern concepts of realpolitik and total war. 

 

By this logic what is stopping VE, Rose, UPN, or any other alliance bigger than you from raiding you? Would you expect any form of repayment? Or just accept the hit and move on?

 

You don't have to act that way, and the exaggerated concept just gives you a distasteful demeanor. Hereno is one of the more disliked leaders in the game and it speaks volumes that most of the non-mensa posts are siding with him. I'm done doing with the back and forth because clearly my words aren't going very far with you. 

[Muhammad Ali Bas]

u r not alone, mensahq attacked me to for no reason, they were raiding random people that weren't in SI.

[Avruch]

By this logic what is stopping VE, Rose, UPN, or any other alliance bigger than you from raiding you? Would you expect any form of repayment? Or just accept the hit and move on?

 

You don't have to act that way, and the exaggerated concept just gives you a distasteful demeanor. Hereno is one of the more disliked leaders in the game and it speaks volumes that most of the non-mensa posts are siding with him. I'm done doing with the back and forth because clearly my words aren't going very far with you. 

 

What is stopping them? Well I couldn't say for sure. I'd imagine that it has something to do with the fact that Mensa is ranked fairly high, even if below some of the very highest. It also could be concern that we might have a relationship with one or more other alliances that might help us defend ourselves. If they wish to avoid a war, then they might choose to pay reps if someone in Mensa chose to request them.

 

But those factors aren't strongly at play between Mensa and SI. We have no particular reason to go out of our way to avoid a war with a tiny competitor. You would think that Hereno would have a much stronger incentive in that direction - "Gee I better not attack the alliance leader, or the whole alliance might retaliate." It's strange that he didn't, and speaks to what seems like an odd culture around war (at least as can be seen from these threads). 

 

And you haven't convinced me that this culture makes sense, but its certainly educational. I'm a newbie, so its interesting to learn how things are done here even if it seems alien compared to other web-based war games. Someone upthread called it a nation sim, and maybe that spin is where the different approach comes from. 

[Buorhann]

By this logic what is stopping VE, Rose, UPN, or any other alliance bigger than you from raiding you? Would you expect any form of repayment? Or just accept the hit and move on?

 

You don't have to act that way, and the exaggerated concept just gives you a distasteful demeanor. Hereno is one of the more disliked leaders in the game and it speaks volumes that most of the non-mensa posts are siding with him. I'm done doing with the back and forth because clearly my words aren't going very far with you. 

 

In regards to the first point:  We'd let our diplomats decide that matter.  If they say "Move on", we move on.  It's happened early when we started, of course on a small scale.  Couple of grumblings, but we all worked together to patch things up and move on together.  I mean, I personally had a issue happen, but moved on when told to do so, no problem.

 

We come from a culture that...  well, we've been beaten down before, and rebuilt from it - several times, mind you.  I'd like to think ( And I'm really only speaking from my perspective ) that we'd accept it and move on.

 

 

u r not alone, mensahq attacked me to for no reason, they were raiding random people that weren't in SI.

 

Looking at your war log, it shows you got hit by one Mensa member and there was a truce.

[Ivan]

Despite how active the member is or not it is still a member whose score and nation resides within the alliance. I think it's normal to pay reps and offer peace even for inactives out of good will and to not come across as disrespectful to another alliance - Rose has and still does pay reps and offer peace to nations that our young nations (without knowing the consequences of raiding) attack, and I'm sure several other alliances do the same. I'm not saying that Mensa should've paid extra or anything, but if you did the damage it's only common courtesy to try and fix it when the leader approaches you about it. Maybe that's just the culture I was led to believe is the norm, perhaps in other nation sims this is something entirely unheard of. 

 

It's already been said multiple times but yes.. Politics & War. While sure the game is based on fighting and wars, politics play a big part of it. It is great to see your alliance's reputation and standing in Orbis basically being flushed down the toilet with two OWF threads.

 

Also... maybe if Pfeiff wasn't an asshat sometimes to those who attempt diplomacy with his alliance, maybe it wouldn't have come to this.

 

The only pathetic thing here is that you are too immature to face the consequences of your attack on our alliance leader. Regardless of how you think the reparations issue should have been resolved, you shouldn't have attacked our alliance leader unless you wanted to initiate an alliance war.

 

You don't do ultimatum attacks against stronger alliances, bro. If you think you have been wronged, you carry it to the community so that it can be resolved peacefully. This is International Relations 101. Do not blame others for your diplomatic incompetence.

 

Please. Stop.

[Avruch]

 

Also... maybe if Pfeiff wasn't an !@#$ sometimes to those who attempt diplomacy with his alliance, maybe it wouldn't have come to this.

 

 

You must have him confused with someone else. The Pfeiffer I know is always polite, humble and jovial - jolly, even. He's so unfailingly courteous that if you have found otherwise, you must have been dealing with an impostor :-P 

[Buorhann]

I'm not sure who's worse.  Us in Mensa coming out of the wood work and being all Mensa, or BoC members following Mensa around like a bunch of groupies.