[RoH] Glass Houses on Eclipse Way

[Corvidae]

2 hours ago, Krameleon said:

Honestly, the score argument is a pretty weak one to make. If we’re talking about benefiting from an FA climate I suppose losses in wars to be the metric of how good/bad it is for an alliance? If so I’d recheck the stats on that to really see who has benefitted from this new meta.

18 minutes ago, Krameleon said:

With respect to Rose participating in the NAP cycle meta. This goes to further reinforce my point about Eclipse fundamentally shaping the meta we live in now, as they not only initiated this meta but continues to push it both directly and indirectly. Rose and several others have since followed that lead for the same reasons others have followed not speaking all that publicly as of late.

I was going to type up my thoughts but I think you highlighted it for me.

Either way I'm pleased to see Rose engaging on the forums for the first time in probably years outside of a post about Cake. Though some may deride public FA (really it's just PR), I think it takes courage to lay out your opinion for others to usually swarm as the game is very content-starved.

Hope Rose is enjoying some activity, win or lose.  

[Jordan]

11 minutes ago, Alastor said:

I was going to type up my thoughts but I think you highlighted it for me.

Either way I'm pleased to see Rose engaging on the forums for the first time in probably years outside of a post about Cake. Though some may deride public FA (really it's just PR), I think it takes courage to lay out your opinion for others to usually swarm as the game is very content-starved.

Hope Rose is enjoying some activity, win or lose.  

"a post about cake". How dare you assign it such a lowly title. it was THE post about cake.

Thank you

[Sketchy]

40 minutes ago, Alastor said:

I was going to type up my thoughts but I think you highlighted it for me.

You could always type them out anyway. 

[Danzek]

Feels like a good place to see if anyone wants to add to this, but it seems like a reasonable list of spheres to me (the second list) - aside from a few cross-sphere M level treaties, like TSC-WAP. 

Then we could do a real tiering comparison between the spheres. 

[Sketchy]

4 minutes ago, Danzek said:

Feels like a good place to see if anyone wants to add to this, but it seems like a reasonable list of spheres to me (the second list) - aside from a few cross-sphere M level treaties, like TSC-WAP. 

Then we could do a real tiering comparison between the spheres. 

Oh nvm, Roberts is posting his opinions in RON instead of on the forums again.

I am glad however that Roberts has changed his tune and believes Singularity is absolved from any and all consolidation and it's all just overlap with Spectresphere and Eclipsesphere.

I knew he'd come around to us eventually.

[Krameleon]

1 hour ago, Alastor said:

I was going to type up my thoughts but I think you highlighted it for me.

Either way I'm pleased to see Rose engaging on the forums for the first time in probably years outside of a post about Cake. Though some may deride public FA (really it's just PR), I think it takes courage to lay out your opinion for others to usually swarm as the game is very content-starved.

Hope Rose is enjoying some activity, win or lose.  

50 minutes ago, Danzek said:

Feels like a good place to see if anyone wants to add to this, but it seems like a reasonable list of spheres to me (the second list) - aside from a few cross-sphere M level treaties, like TSC-WAP. 

Then we could do a real tiering comparison between the spheres. 

Not me trying to wrap my head around Roberts' completely unexplained and incoherent take, only to realize he's trying to present as fact my obviously exaggerated analogy that I was using to show Kan he was making the mistake of selectively conflating coalitions and spheres.

1 hour ago, Kan0601 said:

Ok but you agree that you guys are big and it did technically take 2 sphere to actually manage to hit you guys. (Only reason this war was over so fast was because of the surprise hit no one expected and the double but advantage) or this war would have been a very hard and even fight. 

Also on the topic of links I didn’t know eclipse was linked to house but ok. 

Spec yes would be in the eclipse sphere but we weren’t invited to the hit, we launched on penta because of our other allies asking us to help. 

Which, it doesn't look like the analogy clicked.

[Leftbehind]

58 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

Oh nvm, Roberts is posting his opinions in RON instead of on the forums again.

I am glad however that Roberts has changed his tune and believes Singularity is absolved from any and all consolidation and it's all just overlap with Spectresphere and Eclipsesphere.

I knew he'd come around to us eventually.

That's what you want us to think puppet master. 

[Sketchy]

4 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

That's what you want us to think puppet master. 

You got me. Anyway let's speed up the timeline on the TSC merge into Sin please Lefty, it's taking you considerably longer than we planned and I'm a busy man with many important things to do.

[Leftbehind]

14 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

You got me. Anyway let's speed up the timeline on the TSC merge into Sin please Lefty, it's taking you considerably longer than we planned and I'm a busy man with many important things to do.

They aint ripe yet master. Lefty knows master has important Villainous to play. Lefty good slave, master sir. 

[Kurdanak]

12 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

They aint ripe yet master. Lefty knows master has important Villainous to play. Lefty good slave, master sir. 

I'm starting to have second thoughts on this whole public FA thing

[Noscar]

I fully support this public FA move. I've been getting too tired of getting a DoW at the start of a war and a PEACE post at the end of it. Where's the drama? Where's the propaganda? Where's the forum posts?

Now this is war propaganda. I like. Looking forward to more posts like this.

[John M Keynes]

20 hours ago, Mima said:

Being part of Rose these last few months has felt very dull and empty. War, then massive span of NOTHING, then war again. The same old same old "safe" strategy just to keep the massive alliances afloat.

Sketchy, Shiho, you want more public FA? This post has two purposes: A public departure, and the creation of something new.
Glory to the Probability Space Hypervessel! DoE coming soon, once I can cobble one together.

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=253563 

[Diocletian]

On 12/21/2024 at 12:23 PM, Tiberius Aurion said:

Sounds like a skill issue. Eclipse in no way does anything being suggested. These are complete mischaracterizations of the facts, a clear distortion of reality, and a speculative concoction at best with no evidence supporting any of it.

I read this while watching Joe Biden speak on the news. I almost thought this was actually him. 

[Emeralds]

All what I read was how smart Eclipse is... Rose be smart, strike smartly and play smart. 

[Vein]

First off, thank you for creating a RoH specifically for us. However, after one week, this is the best you could come up with? Playing the victim card, really? 😂

Are you trying to convince yourself or your members? Because it's clear that the rest of Orbis isn't buying it, and history speaks for itself.

On 12/21/2024 at 6:07 PM, Krameleon said:

Let us take a look at this war, and the reality hidden underneath.

For years, Rose has been the go-to target for public scrutiny. Our lack of public presence being hailed as bad for the game. The only serious DoW from this war effectively used “Rose Bad” as its casus belli.

Meanwhile, Eclipse coasts under the radar, quietly avoiding the kind of backlash that would rain down on us — or frankly, anyone else — if they pulled the same moves. It might be worth considering the reason why that might be.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, for the record, I’m sorry about the economy.

Let’s take a look at Rose's CB from their latest 3 offensive wars.

- Darkest hour - Rose accusing Eclipse of backroom dealings with Aurora pointed at rolling Florida, without any concrete evidence shared.

- One day war - «T$’s backroom dealings & hegemonic sphere creation «

- Darkest Hour Deux - CB not found

You had no issues with it back then, but suddenly now that you’re on the other end you end up having issues with it? Quite hypocritical don’t you think? Or are you going to put that blame on someone else as well 😂😂

Have you ever taken a step back and thought about why people have criticized your alliance and past moves? Yet you still are delusional and to this very day instead of taking responsibility, you pretend to be the victim trying to push the blame to others.

On 12/21/2024 at 6:07 PM, Krameleon said:

The Eclipse Empire
Eclipsphere is now the largest sphere in Orbis, after the addition of The Immortals. Their roster includes Singularity, TI, KT, Spectre, WAP, and WEEB. Imagine the uproar if another sphere tried to consolidate alliances on this scale. There would be hegemony accusations, cries of straining FA, and of how such a sphere is “bad for the game” would dominate the political and public discourse. Yet it's let passed.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, for the record, I’m sorry about the economy.

It’s funny how you’re mentioning sphere and number size. That argument is hypocritical in all aspects due to the past. We used to be allies at one point (Ouroboros) being the biggest sphere in the game and we were both fine with that. We could also mention Celestial and Hollestial which Rose was apart from and were the biggest sphere by far, and once again, Rose was fine with it. However, now that it’s not the case you find the will to try to be some sort of hero? Miss me with that bullshit.

But if we go back to the original point: numbers. When was the last time you fought an even offensive war? All of your prior wars have been with the intention of dogpiling your opponent and minimizing damages taken, yet you wish to talk about Numbers? 🤦‍♂️

 

Rose’s last 3 offensive wars:

On 12/21/2024 at 6:07 PM, Krameleon said:

sphere size is not the only issue however. Eclipse’s FA strategy has fundamentally shaped the meta we deal with today. They orchestrated the 6-month NAP just to ensure they could isolate their opponents and get their juicy war on TKR/Grumpy. Eclipse used this strategy to ensure no other conflicts could arise to disrupt their carefully planned NAP cycles. It ended up coming out once the one day war came out on how important these nap cycles are for Eclipse; that war also saw some under the table maneuvering from other parties. This nap cycle ensurance was not simply a tactical move — it set the tone for the stagnated FA landscape where we find ourselves.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, for the record, I’m sorry about the economy.

 

Despite signing the no NAP movement, you didn't even last 6 months before going back to signing naps after NAPs. Unlike you, Eclipse did not sign anything nor did we feel like we had to follow like sheep for some PR points. Is that all your word means?

Even before the no NAP agreement, Rose relied on blanket NAPs over doing actual FA to make sure that they wouldn't get hit by their former coalition partners after Duck Hunt and Brawlywood, beginning the “stagnation” of the FA meta.

Back to the point, you are accusing Eclipse of being responsible of what you seem to call the “nap cycling” meta. You argue that Eclipse’s FA strategy shaped and orchestrated this meta. First, we are not responsible for what you’re attempting to describe. NAPs and “strategies” around them have always existed, before Eclipse even existed, way before. Secondly, our FA and moves are not solely centered around NAPs all the time and we are certainly not the sole responsible for it like you’re trying to claim so innocently and naively. At the end of the day if Eclipse ends up having a better winrate than Rose, have you simply considered that, maybe, we were just better than you ? The one-day war that you cited is a good example of us not always relying on the nap cycles. Because unlike Rose, we do not need to set up dogpile situations during nap time (you are doing exactly the same) all the time to win our wars and limit damages taken. 
 

On 12/21/2024 at 6:07 PM, Krameleon said:

The Double Standard
Eclipse having created the largest sphere in Orbis wasn’t enough to content them. They further sought to link up with TKR/Grumpy (who were a victim of the nap cycling), further cementing their dominance and opening the door for another round of NAP cycling. Not to mention that previously, the idea of Eclipse and Grumpy linking up would’ve been condemned immediately. Yet here Eclipse is, dissatisfied with their already large sphere, linking with Grumpy. Those who would once damn such partnerships are largely silent.

Eclipse continues to expand unchecked, squeezing out long periods of peace and crafting the FA meta that suits their needs, all while avoiding the kind of backlash that Rose or others would face for doing the same thing. The hypocrisy is staggering.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, for the record, I’m sorry about the economy.

Did you forget that you linked up with TKR/Grumpy to dogpile SAIL in the one day war with the intention of dogpiling Eclipse afterwards or does Rose genuinely believe they’re the victim here. Do you still not see the issue? You ended up still being able to dogpile them in August either way, so not much difference for Rose at the end of the day … till today. The hypocrisy is staggering from Rose.

On 12/21/2024 at 6:07 PM, Krameleon said:

Fin.
It’s easy to point fingers at Rose, to accuse us of being inactive in the public sphere. Well, here we are.

Maybe it is time to acknowledge the deeper issues at play. Eclipse’s actions and the FA landscape they’ve hand crafted deserve just as much scrutiny if not more for its long term impact to the game.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, for the record, I’m sorry about the economy.

Overall, I'm quite disappointed by the self-pitying tone in your RoH. Given your size and long-standing position as the #1 AA in the game, you can do better.

Edited December 26, 2024 by Vein

[KindaEpicMoah]

[Prim0]

So, the defense you made here was "Eclipse is smart", is that it?

[Japan]

On 12/21/2024 at 9:07 AM, Krameleon said:

Let us take a look at this war, and the reality hidden underneath.

For years, Rose has been the go-to target for public scrutiny. Our lack of public presence being hailed as bad for the game. The only serious DoW from this war effectively used “Rose Bad” as its casus belli.

Meanwhile, Eclipse coasts under the radar, quietly avoiding the kind of backlash that would rain down on us — or frankly, anyone else — if they pulled the same moves. It might be worth considering the reason why that might be.

The Eclipse Empire
Eclipsphere is now the largest sphere in Orbis, after the addition of The Immortals. Their roster includes Singularity, TI, KT, Spectre, WAP, and WEEB. Imagine the uproar if another sphere tried to consolidate alliances on this scale. There would be hegemony accusations, cries of straining FA, and of how such a sphere is “bad for the game” would dominate the political and public discourse. Yet it's let passed.

Eclipse’s sphere size is not the only issue however. Eclipse’s FA strategy has fundamentally shaped the meta we deal with today. They orchestrated the 6-month NAP just to ensure they could isolate their opponents and get their juicy war on TKR/Grumpy. Eclipse used this strategy to ensure no other conflicts could arise to disrupt their carefully planned NAP cycles. It ended up coming out once the one day war came out on how important these nap cycles are for Eclipse; that war also saw some under the table maneuvering from other parties. This nap cycle ensurance was not simply a tactical move — it set the tone for the stagnated FA landscape where we find ourselves.

The Double Standard
Eclipse having created the largest sphere in Orbis wasn’t enough to content them. They further sought to link up with TKR/Grumpy (who were a victim of the nap cycling), further cementing their dominance and opening the door for another round of NAP cycling. Not to mention that previously, the idea of Eclipse and Grumpy linking up would’ve been condemned immediately. Yet here Eclipse is, dissatisfied with their already large sphere, linking with Grumpy. Those who would once damn such partnerships are largely silent.

Eclipse continues to expand unchecked, squeezing out long periods of peace and crafting the FA meta that suits their needs, all while avoiding the kind of backlash that Rose or others would face for doing the same thing. The hypocrisy is staggering.

Fin.
It’s easy to point fingers at Rose, to accuse us of being inactive in the public sphere. Well, here we are.

Maybe it is time to acknowledge the deeper issues at play. Eclipse’s actions and the FA landscape they’ve hand crafted deserve just as much scrutiny if not more for its long term impact to the game.

——————————

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, for the record, I’m sorry about the economy.

So show us you actually care then and fight back, my defensive slots are open

rename to "the great sleeper war" because nothing is happening

[SweetButPsycho]

Set aside the CB for a moment. The real triggers of war were never only really related to the CB.

Let's be honest, if Eclipse didn't initiate the holiday bonfire this time, then in the next global war, Eclipse would be the one getting rolled by Rose again. Our alliance with TKR and Grumpy this time was a surprise indeed. But Rose getting rolled was to be expected, not only to reflect the current game atmosphere, but also as it happened to be right now that Rose has had a very recent change of leadership.

During tough time, people need tough leaders; Not sure if is it a good time to show frangibility.

[Tartarus]

2 hours ago, SweetButPsycho said:

but also as it happened to be right now that Rose has had a very recent change of leadership.

During tough time, people need tough leaders; Not sure if is it a good time to show frangibility.

Would you say now is a bad time for new rose leadership to move into making public FA stances?

[Rageproject]

On 12/22/2024 at 1:36 PM, John M Keynes said:

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=253563 

I am so confused. No nation. No alliance.

is this like the ultimate war dodging scenario? Trolling? Or am I missing something…?

[Krameleon]

Ah, a response from the star of the show himself. Glad I could stir things up for you. Let’s get into it.
Dismissive laughter, cherry-picked "facts," and a healthy dose of self-righteousness. I wish I could say I had expected more from a response. Let's break it down.

10 hours ago, Vein said:

First off, thank you for creating a RoH specifically for us. However, after one week, this is the best you could come up with? Playing the victim card, really? 😂

Are you trying to convince yourself or your members? Because it's clear that the rest of Orbis isn't buying it, and history speaks for itself.

By shifting the narrative, you avoid addressing the double standards and systemic issues in the FA meta, instead framing Rose as the perpetual bad actor, absolving yourself of the responsibility you yourself had in forming and perpetuating it. Who benefits more from this deflection: Those raising legitimate concerns on the long-standing stagnation of Orbis, or those attempting to evade the scrutiny by redirecting the spotlight?

10 hours ago, Vein said:

Let’s take a look at Rose's CB from their latest 3 offensive wars.

- Darkest hour - Rose accusing Eclipse of backroom dealings with Aurora pointed at rolling Florida, without any concrete evidence shared.

- One day war - «T$’s backroom dealings & hegemonic sphere creation «

- Darkest Hour Deux - CB not found

You had no issues with it back then, but suddenly now that you’re on the other end you end up having issues with it? Quite hypocritical don’t you think? Or are you going to put that blame on someone else as well 😂😂

Have you ever taken a step back and thought about why people have criticized your alliance and past moves? Yet you still are delusional and to this very day instead of taking responsibility, you pretend to be the victim trying to push the blame to others.

It’s amusing that you criticize Rose’s CBs, yet Eclipse has relied on equally dubious justifications in the past. Backroom dealings? Sphere-building accusations? These aren’t unique CBs to Rose, they are staples of FA in Orbis. The only CB reference made in my initial post is the apparent lack of one referenced in any DoW, a commonplace in Orbis politics nowadays that my push intends to change.

As for your claim that Rose is "suddenly" upset when the tables turn: we’re not complaining about being targeted, we’re critiquing the unchecked behaviors and double standards that have enabled Eclipse to operate without the same scrutiny others face. This is why our RoH is not targeted at House, or any of the Eclipse-aligned parties who joined them in this war. War is part of the world of Orbis, we have and will be rolled throughout history, that which has been written and that which has to be written.

10 hours ago, Vein said:

It’s funny how you’re mentioning sphere and number size. That argument is hypocritical in all aspects due to the past. We used to be allies at one point (Ouroboros) being the biggest sphere in the game and we were both fine with that. We could also mention Celestial and Hollestial which Rose was apart from and were the biggest sphere by far, and once again, Rose was fine with it. However, now that it’s not the case you find the will to try to be some sort of hero? Miss me with that bullshit.

But if we go back to the original point: numbers. When was the last time you fought an even offensive war? All of your prior wars have been with the intention of dogpiling your opponent and minimizing damages taken, yet you wish to talk about Numbers? 🤦‍♂️

You, as many have here, conflate spheres and coalitions in your dogpile accusations. Rose is not condemning the enemy coalition for dogpiling. Sure, coalitions are often larger than their targets; that's often the nature of coordinated wars. This is distinctly different from stacking MDoAP treaties with a significant portion of the game. If Eclipse was attacked directly, all of the following would be obligated to respond in their defense, per treaties signed in-game: WAP, WEEB, TI, KT, Spectre, Singularity, TEst, and Paragon. Of course, Eclipse could waive this obligation to some of these parties if they wanted to, but that gives all the power to Eclipse to determine how close of a fight they want defensively and to dictate if they want to win or lose in all cases except for a dogpile. I may be in the minority here, but I think that’s a pretty good case for a large “sphere of influence.” Not to mention that any coalition that would want to war against Eclipse directly has to seriously consider the overlap of their treatied allies to those of Eclipse, and must consider chaining treaties pulling more parties in defense of what is already a large sphere. You avoid backlash for this by, for example, selecting which of your MDoAP allies you wish to pull into a hit - which you’ve done here by including House but leaving out large portions of your sphere in order to hide just how overwhelming the numbers are.

Each point laid out here is deserving of its own various level of criticism - mass MDoAPs, treaty manipulations, defensive chaining, dogpiles - most of which other parties have received criticism in the past for. However, the problem lies in all these factors combined, and the subsequent lack of criticism that Eclipse has come under for this combination of factors. As you’ve seen, Rose has received scrutiny for many of these as well, and rightfully so in some circumstances. Why then, when you are confronted with these accusations, do you not defend your actions but rather attack ours?

Also, the Hollestial comparisons are a reach. The treaty was signed with the specific goal of demilitarizing both spheres while not leaving them open to a Clock chain, and it was not meant to be a form of long-term cooperation between the spheres. Feel free to correct me, but there has been no indication that any of your many MDoAPs are dated or formed for the purpose of defending from a credible, immediate threat. You can criticize the Hollestial treaty, as many did at the time, but to compare that signing and its purpose to what Eclipse has been doing in modern day Orbis is at best a misunderstanding of the facts and at worst a deliberate attempt to mislead.

So, the narrative continues. When Eclipse links with House it’s strategic genius, but when Rose does the same it’s ruining the game.

10 hours ago, Vein said:

Despite signing the no NAP movement, you didn't even last 6 months before going back to signing naps after NAPs. Unlike you, Eclipse did not sign anything nor did we feel like we had to follow like sheep for some PR points. Is that all your word means?

Even before the no NAP agreement, Rose relied on blanket NAPs over doing actual FA to make sure that they wouldn't get hit by their former coalition partners after Duck Hunt and Brawlywood, beginning the “stagnation” of the FA meta.

Back to the point, you are accusing Eclipse of being responsible of what you seem to call the “nap cycling” meta. You argue that Eclipse’s FA strategy shaped and orchestrated this meta. First, we are not responsible for what you’re attempting to describe. NAPs and “strategies” around them have always existed, before Eclipse even existed, way before. Secondly, our FA and moves are not solely centered around NAPs all the time and we are certainly not the sole responsible for it like you’re trying to claim so innocently and naively. At the end of the day if Eclipse ends up having a better winrate than Rose, have you simply considered that, maybe, we were just better than you ? The one-day war that you cited is a good example of us not always relying on the nap cycles. Because unlike Rose, we do not need to set up dogpile situations during nap time (you are doing exactly the same) all the time to win our wars and limit damages taken. 

Your deflection on the NAP cycle argument is particularly rich. Over three years ago we signed the no-NAP agreement, yes, and then that was followed by a lost war in which a NAP was signed, which wasn't pushed by Rose as you imply. At least Rose attempted the change, which was an attempt to benefit the flow of the game. All the while, Eclipse stood on the sidelines, refusing to engage, only to now claim the moral high ground for not having attempted it in the first place.

Not to gloss over the fact that the NAP mentioned in my original post cited for initiating the current FA meta wasn’t just a standard NAP, it was a calculated move to stall the game for Eclipse’s benefit - I won’t deny it’s a good strategy. While Rose, among others, have since participated in this meta, it’s important to acknowledge when this precedent was set, which led to others shaping their strategies around it or being lost to the wind.
As people publicly have said, Rose has benefitted from this meta, Rose is #1 in score (or was, during peacetime prior to this war). Yet when people post real graphs to determine alliance overall success over time, like Borg, the picture changes drastically. When you no longer can hide the success of Eclipse behind "score" and the public focus on Rose, will you deflect or step up to the plate?

10 hours ago, Vein said:

At the end of the day if Eclipse ends up having a better winrate than Rose, have you simply considered that, maybe, we were just better than you ?

The arrogance here is palpable. Your claim of superiority is a convenient excuse to brush aside legitimate concerns. “Better” isn’t just about winning wars. It’s about leadership, accountability, and fostering a healthy environment. By that measure, Eclipse has a lot to answer for, but the blame is placed on Rose’s doorstep. I am committed to changing, both internally and out, as is exemplified by this post - the first public FA interaction that Rose has majorly participated in for years. Are you?

10 hours ago, Vein said:

Did you forget that you linked up with TKR/Grumpy to dogpile SAIL in the one day war with the intention of dogpiling Eclipse afterwards or does Rose genuinely believe they’re the victim here. Do you still not see the issue? You ended up still being able to dogpile them in August either way, so not much difference for Rose at the end of the day … till today. The hypocrisy is staggering from Rose.

Overall, I'm quite disappointed by the self-pitying tone in your RoH. Given your size and long-standing position as the #1 AA in the game, you can do better.

Again, you misrepresent my argument to look as though dogpiling is my concern. The complaints levied against Eclipse in this post are much larger in scope. It’s also quite interesting to me that you seem to have such deep founded opinions as to why Rose is the bad guy based on the strategic choices of our previous administrations, yet instead of holding that administration accountable you waited until now to make the move. What's the reason? Is it that you miss Harry as you've noted multiple times, or were you just waiting until no significant faction would oppose you?

In conclusion, Eclipse dismisses criticism as self-pity, when in reality it is an attempt to hold them accountable. Instead of addressing the issues raised, they default to deflection and mockery. For an alliance that apparently prides itself on being “better,” I would’ve expected they could muster a more substantive defense, rather than redirect the complaints back at us.

My question, and the purpose of this post, still remains: Why does Eclipse operate without the same scrutiny as others? Why are their actions excused while others are vilified? Until Eclipse can answer these, the conversation isn’t about victimhood - it’s about accountability.

10 hours ago, KindaEpicMoah said:

I'll never compete with this.

[Rageproject]

On 12/21/2024 at 4:28 PM, Kastor said:

TGH does

What’s FA?

[boppy]

12 hours ago, Krameleon said:

blah blah blah didnt read

I for one am just proud that the leader of the rank #1 (4?) alliance in the game managed to achieve double digit forum posts 😂

[Totally Hatebi]

On 12/24/2024 at 6:46 AM, Vein said:

First off, thank you for creating a RoH specifically for us. However, after one week, this is the best you could come up with? Playing the victim card, really? 😂

Are you trying to convince yourself or your members? Because it's clear that the rest of Orbis isn't buying it, and history speaks for itself.

Let’s take a look at Rose's CB from their latest 3 offensive wars.

- Darkest hour - Rose accusing Eclipse of backroom dealings with Aurora pointed at rolling Florida, without any concrete evidence shared.

- One day war - «T$’s backroom dealings & hegemonic sphere creation «

- Darkest Hour Deux - CB not found

You had no issues with it back then, but suddenly now that you’re on the other end you end up having issues with it? Quite hypocritical don’t you think? Or are you going to put that blame on someone else as well 😂😂

Have you ever taken a step back and thought about why people have criticized your alliance and past moves? Yet you still are delusional and to this very day instead of taking responsibility, you pretend to be the victim trying to push the blame to others.

It’s funny how you’re mentioning sphere and number size. That argument is hypocritical in all aspects due to the past. We used to be allies at one point (Ouroboros) being the biggest sphere in the game and we were both fine with that. We could also mention Celestial and Hollestial which Rose was apart from and were the biggest sphere by far, and once again, Rose was fine with it. However, now that it’s not the case you find the will to try to be some sort of hero? Miss me with that bullshit.

But if we go back to the original point: numbers. When was the last time you fought an even offensive war? All of your prior wars have been with the intention of dogpiling your opponent and minimizing damages taken, yet you wish to talk about Numbers? 🤦‍♂️

 

Rose’s last 3 offensive wars:

 

Despite signing the no NAP movement, you didn't even last 6 months before going back to signing naps after NAPs. Unlike you, Eclipse did not sign anything nor did we feel like we had to follow like sheep for some PR points. Is that all your word means?

Even before the no NAP agreement, Rose relied on blanket NAPs over doing actual FA to make sure that they wouldn't get hit by their former coalition partners after Duck Hunt and Brawlywood, beginning the “stagnation” of the FA meta.

Back to the point, you are accusing Eclipse of being responsible of what you seem to call the “nap cycling” meta. You argue that Eclipse’s FA strategy shaped and orchestrated this meta. First, we are not responsible for what you’re attempting to describe. NAPs and “strategies” around them have always existed, before Eclipse even existed, way before. Secondly, our FA and moves are not solely centered around NAPs all the time and we are certainly not the sole responsible for it like you’re trying to claim so innocently and naively. At the end of the day if Eclipse ends up having a better winrate than Rose, have you simply considered that, maybe, we were just better than you ? The one-day war that you cited is a good example of us not always relying on the nap cycles. Because unlike Rose, we do not need to set up dogpile situations during nap time (you are doing exactly the same) all the time to win our wars and limit damages taken. 
 

Did you forget that you linked up with TKR/Grumpy to dogpile SAIL in the one day war with the intention of dogpiling Eclipse afterwards or does Rose genuinely believe they’re the victim here. Do you still not see the issue? You ended up still being able to dogpile them in August either way, so not much difference for Rose at the end of the day … till today. The hypocrisy is staggering from Rose.

Overall, I'm quite disappointed by the self-pitying tone in your RoH. Given your size and long-standing position as the #1 AA in the game, you can do better.

😭I’m hoping it’s bad but I can’t see anything.

Edited December 24, 2024 by Jesus Prime