[RoH] Glass Houses on Eclipse Way

[Jeric]

Dogpile after dogpile. That's the legacy that Eclipse and House just countered. Why so serious??? 

I sat in LoD as rose co rolled on EVH, we even countered but the numbers were too great. This is poetic justice hearing the whining. 

 

All I can do is ask if you'd like some cheese and crackers.

[Ducc Zucc]

1 hour ago, penpiko said:

For the sake of maximum fairness I went out of my way and included HoF, which isn't even considered part of KT. 

Penpiko's not even mentioning he put Gular on the opposite side ✅

[Danzek]

8 hours ago, Alastor said:

Rose is the number one alliance in score, arguably tiering, and total member count and has been for quite a long time. Far from victimized, Rose has seemingly benefitted the most out of all other alliances from the "system hand-crafted by Eclipse" that you claim. Curious.

It is only now in a war where you've completely rolled over, have a small alliance's worth of people in VM, and lost 1/3rd of your score that you have sank to the lowest point Rose has seen in years... Rank 2.

 

 

And yes I appreciate that an RoH got posted. Shoutout Vexz.

I was interested in checking, to see city value over time of the alliances. Add about 120B in your head for E$ 

And here, avg infra over time, to visualize # wars, and how much those wars inflicted. 

 

6 hours ago, penpiko said:

For the sake of maximum fairness I went out of my way and included HoF, which isn't even considered part of KT. 

"Paragon,Shuba99M,Fumo,MCXA,Shuba10KM,Terminus Est,Penguin Party"
is what I have on the stats site. Don't think it makes a difference, maybe the eclipse ones do since they are all mega whales (but you've also missed a bunch of extensions on Rose's side). Not sure on the logic of including TFP/Yarr and all the Penta (Tetra?) alliances and avoiding doing similar for Eclipse, but I don't do FA. 
(I did initially think the spectre war was part of the same conflict, until it got peaced lol). 
 

Edited December 22, 2024 by Danzek
Discord doesn't like hosting images ;-;

[Themonia]

[WarriorSoul]

I didn’t know anyone in Rose could read or write before this post

[Krameleon]

Thanks for the engagement, everyone. Working on responding to what I can while at work.

4 hours ago, Dream said:

Sorry for interrupting what might’ve been another blissful year of peaceful nothingness for Rose. We even knocked on your door, but it seems no one wanted to answer. Rude, honestly; I just wanted flowers.

I’m not entirely sure what you mean by “blissful nothingness,” Rose has been active in the war department as of late. But I’d be happy to give you flowers, you just have to swing by during office hours next time!

4 hours ago, Alastor said:

Rose is the number one alliance in score, arguably tiering, and total member count and has been for quite a long time. Far from victimized, Rose has seemingly benefitted the most out of all other alliances from the "system hand-crafted by Eclipse" that you claim. Curious.

It is only now in a war where you've completely rolled over, have a small alliance's worth of people in VM, and lost 1/3rd of your score that you have sank to the lowest point Rose has seen in years... Rank 2.

 

 

And yes I appreciate that an RoH got posted. Shoutout Vexz.

Honestly, the score argument is a pretty weak one to make. If we’re talking about benefiting from an FA climate I suppose losses in wars to be the metric of how good/bad it is for an alliance? If so I’d recheck the stats on that to really see who has benefitted from this new meta.

4 hours ago, Merow said:

Love that you guys atleast made a public statement about something politics related for once. Regardless of what I think about it or any backlash you might receive

I just hope this isn't a one off

This is just the beginning of a new chapter. I expect a good amount of pushback for Rose finally making a public statement, but that is a burden I’m willing to bear to prove the point that this is a new administration.

4 hours ago, Wingawoo said:

Nice words, but penguins can't read. NOOT NOOT

Honestly, HUGE FA failure here. Didn't even consider. Time to wrap this up, Rose is going private again.

2 hours ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

I presume that this is aimed at the neutrals in this conflict.

It's been brought up a few times to us. We weren't inclined to comment on it. However, given that you are seemingly intent on criticizing third parties who have remained quiet:

While Eclipse and Grumpy have more visible whale tiers, Rose (and its allies) is not without one. It is fairly comparable, if a bit spread out.

As far as we are concerned, you demonstrated that such collaboration among whale tiers was acceptable the moment you and ODOO intervened in an ongoing war, and with what concluded as the One Day War.

Against a party that had no comparable whale tier, I should add.

Given that such is so, lecturing these alliances for not taking a stand (on your behalf) against the evils of whale tier cooperation, when you yourself were unconcerned about the consequences thereof when it served your interests, is simply unbecoming.

The criticisms in this post were directed towards the change in rhetoric by Eclipse, not other parties. We don’t deny having once worked with Grumpy, albeit we now find ourselves on opposite sides once more. We are highlighting the change of rhetoric that is now benefiting Eclipse while it would hinder any other party historically.

Edited December 21, 2024 by Krameleon

[Kurdanak]

46 minutes ago, WarriorSoul said:

I didn’t know anyone in Rose could read or write before this post

I self-taught about a week ago to figure out what the hell all the Odium stuff was about  from there it kinda snowballed

Edited December 21, 2024 by Kurdanak

[Sval]

Eclipse out-rose'd Rose and Rose is mad about it?

[Sketchy]

People complaining about other people not engaging in public FA.

Does anyone engage in public FA? 

Since I've been back I've seen like what 6-7 wars and usually the winning side posts a half assed DoW, and the losing side says like 2 words and that's the sum of all drama in the war.

Even in other areas like RON it's all fricking quiet. Hell the most active political response to this post right now is from @Shiho Nishizumiwho isn't even FA and isn't even in any of the alliances fighting.

Public FA is dead lmfao

[Kastor]

9 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

People complaining about other people not engaging in public FA.

Does anyone engage in public FA? 

Since I've been back I've seen like what 6-7 wars and usually the winning side posts a half assed DoW, and the losing side says like 2 words and that's the sum of all drama in the war.

Even in other areas like RON it's all fricking quiet. Hell the most active political response to this post right now is from @Shiho Nishizumiwho isn't even FA and isn't even in any of the alliances fighting.

Public FA is dead lmfao

TGH does

[Shiho Nishizumi]

25 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

People complaining about other people not engaging in public FA.

Does anyone engage in public FA? 

Since I've been back I've seen like what 6-7 wars and usually the winning side posts a half assed DoW, and the losing side says like 2 words and that's the sum of all drama in the war.

Even in other areas like RON it's all fricking quiet. Hell the most active political response to this post right now is from @Shiho Nishizumiwho isn't even FA and isn't even in any of the alliances fighting.

Public FA is dead lmfao

It's definitely gone downhill the more the game shifted from an actual polsim to a managerial game of sorts.

In my opinion, it's in a death loop where people don't engage in it because they deem it isn't worth it (especially relative to potential mistakes/risks), those people get worse at it due to not practicing it at all, which then reinforces the pattern of avoiding it. Some of the old hands can probably still do it if they wanted/cared enough, but that just circles back to its diminishing value due to how the game's evolved over the years.

It's tragic, but I suppose that it is what it is.

[Sketchy]

6 minutes ago, Shiho Nishizumi said:

It's definitely gone downhill the more the game shifted from an actual polsim to a managerial game of sorts.

In my opinion, it's in a death loop where people don't engage in it because they deem it isn't worth it (especially relative to potential mistakes/risks), those people get worse at it due to not practicing it at all, which then reinforces the pattern of avoiding it. Some of the old hands can probably still do it if they wanted/cared enough, but that just circles back to its diminishing value due to how the game's evolved over the years.

It's tragic, but I suppose that it is what it is.

Yeah I mean, it's become part of the meta to avoid drama and conflict in order to win, and you see people actively distancing themselves regularly.

It does not help that, unlike times of old, the average player base doesn't really hold anyone accountable. You used to have a reasonable sized group of people who would come out and criticize certain moves, and in some cases those players had influence in areas that would play a role in the politics. They were consistent too, which is kind of important. These days people seem to just levy criticisms against alliances they don't like.

It's incredibly boring and takes a lot of the fun out of wars. At least active FA players get to see backchannels, the average player just sees people get hit and nothing else lmfao.

43 minutes ago, Kastor said:

TGH does

Yes, so you should know what I'm talking about. There is definitely a mindset now of "any publicity is bad publicity" that drives (or I suppose doesn't drive) the politics in the game right now.

At the very least this thread is a shift in the right direction. I am highly sceptical this will lead to any significant changes on the front though. It definitely feels like we are in a post public FA world atm.

[Mima]

Being part of Rose these last few months has felt very dull and empty. War, then massive span of NOTHING, then war again. The same old same old "safe" strategy just to keep the massive alliances afloat.

Quote

 

So how was Partisan potentially right? The sphere system seems to lend itself more to the uplifting and amplifying of any given "major power" than to the rest. Even in situations when a sphere or bloc truly are co-equal and make mutual decisions, the political scene is gridlocked unless your "shot caller" is directly involved. This is enforced both by the other sphere leaders, who will sometimes stonewall political discussions unless you're with a major power -- and by the sphere followers, many who will defer to their sphere leader as the only decision maker in the bloc.

I'm calling it the vassalization of alliances many of whom are chained to their "master" alliances for years at a time without ever having the chance to start their own machinations or pursue their own agenda, if they have an agenda at all. Vassals, lapdogs, servile alliances have always existed in any meta but the sphere meta seems particularly harsh in ensuring that you must follow the leader, no matter what. There is no option other than to choose another leader to follow.

I will also point out that the cultural enforcement of the sphere system has begun to blur over time. Lingering cross-sphere ties are seemingly present everywhere with unwritten rules governing the true state of these ties: Are they going to be honored? Are they going to be enforced? Maybe, is the answer. You'd have to ask and it depends on the day. There is also the issue of new spheres and their inability to form a competitive bloc despite they themselves being a strong central force that might otherwise exert a sphere of influence if the system was not so rigid.

 

Sketchy, Shiho, you want more public FA? This post has two purposes: A public departure, and the creation of something new.
Glory to the Probability Space Hypervessel! DoE coming soon, once I can cobble one together.

[George]

12 minutes ago, Mima said:

Being part of Rose these last few months has felt very dull and empty. War, then massive span of NOTHING, then war again. The same old same old "safe" strategy just to keep the massive alliances afloat.

Welcome to politics and war?  

[Mima]

2 minutes ago, George said:

Welcome to politics and war?  

You don't get it, do you? What this game has devolved into was a mistake. How FA has "evolved" from the apparent days of old has been a mistake. This whole dang war is proof of such.

[-Mike-]

14 minutes ago, Mima said:

Being part of Rose these last few months has felt very dull and empty. War, then massive span of NOTHING, then war again. The same old same old "safe" strategy just to keep the massive alliances afloat.

Sketchy, Shiho, you want more public FA? This post has two purposes: A public departure, and the creation of something new.
Glory to the Probability Space Hypervessel! DoE coming soon, once I can cobble one together.

Arrgh is accepting applications, but if dodging wars is your thing I’m not sure they’d want you either. 

[George]

3 minutes ago, Mima said:

You don't get it, do you? What this game has devolved into was a mistake. How FA has "evolved" from the apparent days of old has been a mistake. This whole dang war is proof of such.

/ 

[Mima]

7 minutes ago, -Mike- said:

dodging wars is your thing I’m not sure they’d want you either

I'm not dodging wars. I did enough war for y'all. I'm setting out on my own.

[Sketchy]

@Shiho Nishizumiapparently our prayers have been answered, the messiah has arisen, to lead us all to the promised land.

I for one can't wait to see a new 5 man raiding AA arise. Truly the change we all need.

[Shiho Nishizumi]

On 12/21/2024 at 7:52 PM, Sketchy said:

@Shiho Nishizumiapparently our prayers have been answered, the messiah has arisen, to lead us all to the promised land.

I for one can't wait to see a new 5 man raiding AA arise. Truly the change we all need.

Edited December 25, 2024 by Shiho Nishizumi

[Buorhann]

44 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

@Shiho Nishizumiapparently our prayers have been answered, the messiah has arisen, to lead us all to the promised land.

I for one can't wait to see a new 5 man raiding AA arise. Truly the change we all need.

IS IT ANOTHER "PIRATE" TURRETING ALLIANCE?!

[Engr Carlo]

Rose man Bad, Eclipse man Good

[MinesomeMC]

28 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

IS IT ANOTHER "PIRATE" TURRETING ALLIANCE?!

Better get the mod team on standby 

[Krameleon]

7 hours ago, Kan0601 said:

I won’t lie you guys do have a lot of numbers too lmao. Penta TGH sphere plus Penta ties to TFP Sing. Didn’t you guys like work with all of them to hit T$ sphere which was 1/5 then added in EVH after Penta wanted to hit them while promising you wouldn’t behind close doors? 

Kind of sure you guys have also been coasting under the radar and doing this nap thing. You got 6 month nap with T$ then 4 month with EVH. 

My point is why so mad when others do to you what you did to them lol? 

I don't really agree with your line of thinking on our connection to other alliances, but if I tunnel down that perspective then Eclipsphere would surely now include TKR (really all of House) and definitely Spectre and others. Further inflating their numbers.

With respect to Rose participating in the NAP cycle meta. This goes to further reinforce my point about Eclipse fundamentally shaping the meta we live in now, as they not only initiated this meta but continues to push it both directly and indirectly. Rose and several others have since followed that lead for the same reasons others have followed not speaking all that publicly as of late.

4 hours ago, Danzek said:

I was interested in checking, to see city value over time of the alliances. Add about 120B in your head for E$ 

And here, avg infra over time, to visualize # wars, and how much those wars inflicted. 

 

"Paragon,Shuba99M,Fumo,MCXA,Shuba10KM,Terminus Est,Penguin Party"
is what I have on the stats site. Don't think it makes a difference, maybe the eclipse ones do since they are all mega whales (but you've also missed a bunch of extensions on Rose's side). Not sure on the logic of including TFP/Yarr and all the Penta (Tetra?) alliances and avoiding doing similar for Eclipse, but I don't do FA. 
(I did initially think the spectre war was part of the same conflict, until it got peaced lol). 
 

Thanks for the data, Borg. Definitely fascinating to see the numbers, they paint a good picture. 

2 hours ago, Sketchy said:

People complaining about other people not engaging in public FA.

Does anyone engage in public FA? 

Since I've been back I've seen like what 6-7 wars and usually the winning side posts a half assed DoW, and the losing side says like 2 words and that's the sum of all drama in the war.

Even in other areas like RON it's all fricking quiet. Hell the most active political response to this post right now is from @Shiho Nishizumiwho isn't even FA and isn't even in any of the alliances fighting.

Public FA is dead lmfao

Um, Sketchy. You're taking things too far. This is clearly a meme post, serious discussion will not be tolerated.

[Kan0601]

9 minutes ago, Krameleon said:

I don't really agree with your line of thinking on our connection to other alliances, but if I tunnel down that perspective then Eclipsphere would surely now include TKR (really all of House) and definitely Spectre and others. Further inflating their numbers.

Ok but you agree that you guys are big and it did technically take 2 sphere to actually manage to hit you guys. (Only reason this war was over so fast was because of the surprise hit no one expected and the double but advantage) or this war would have been a very hard and even fight. 

Also on the topic of links I didn’t know eclipse was linked to house but ok. 

Spec yes would be in the eclipse sphere but we weren’t invited to the hit, we launched on penta because of our other allies asking us to help.