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Privatization of the Police


Titus
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Train citizens to actively know how to operate weapons safely and we can police ourselves. 

I wouldn't go as far as saying "police ourselves", but we could do more of the policing. Police response times are shit. I'm not waiting 10 minutes when some gang banger degenerate breaks into my house for the police to show up and resolve the problem. My life could be "resolved" by then. 

 

 

 

It takes an average of 58 minutes — nearly an hour — for Detroit police to respond to any call, whether top priority or routine. The fastest response time for any precinct in the city is 31 minutes; the longest is 115 minutes, or almost two hours. By contrast, the average national response time is 11 minutes, while police in Dearborn, on Detroit’s western border, arrive on average within seven minutes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2013/06/15/the-1-25-billion-price-tag-for-fixing-detroit/

 

Crime may be at near record-low levels, but it took cops an average of 9.1 minutes last year to respond to crimes in progress — the NYPD’s worst performance since Mayor Bloomberg took office in 2002.

 

According to American Police Beat, the average response time for an emergency call is 10 minutes. Atlanta has the worst response time with 11 to 12 minutes and Nashville comes in at a lightning speed of 9 minutes.

The Department of Justice, with their statistical prowess, reports that the best response time is 4 minutes and the worst over 1 hour. Interpretation? If you live in an upper income area you probably are privy to the 4 minute response time, while middle to rural areas will see a much longer response time.

Now here is where things get interesting. Even though the Department of Justice determined that the average police response time to a 911 call is 4 minutes, the average interaction time between a criminal and his victim is 90 seconds.

 

Hi All: I'm a 5-year resident of East Lakeview. In that time I've made a handful of 911 calls reporting everything from a creepy guy following my wife to aggressive panhandlers to, more recently, a bloody fight among Occupy protesters.

In each instance, the response times were abysmal, if the police responded at all. Others in the area have also noticed this.

I realize a robbery commands (and deserves) a higher priority than an aggressive panhandler yelling profanities at families, etc., but must one's life be in danger in order for the police to respond in a timely fashion?

Have others noticed this, too? I feel like East Lakeview is generally safe, and thus seemingly "minor" offenses should not be ignored. (I think of how NYC combated major crime in the '90s: by deciding minor crime was completely unacceptable.)

 

response_time.gif

http://www.miamidade.gov/results_0607/report-safety.asp

 

There’s also the concern that police departments are the ones tasked with measuring and reporting response times, and some police departments have been caught fudging other pieces of data, such as crime stats. There is also no standardized reporting and compiling of response times across cities and departments. So, for instance, when I asked the police departments in the 25 most populous U.S. cities earlier this week to share their response-time data, fewer than half did by the end of the week, and those that did all didn’t provide all requested data, including the time by which 90% of top-priority calls are responded to. Many departments that didn’t share any data said they were treating the request as an open-records request, which can take 10 business days or more to respond to.

"Hello, I am doing a great job. Pay me more." 

 

And then this. 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/04-278

Basically 3 girls were kidnapped by dad. Mom called the cops. Nothing happened. The called the cops multiple times and nothing. She went to the police station. Nothing. The dad shot up the police station. The cops had to kill him. 

The cops found the  three young girls in the back of the dad's pickup truck. 

Dead. 

 

 

 

 

-snip-

The Brits wouldn't provide law enforcement in some parts of the colonies. The Regulators acted as law enforcement on the side until they died. 

 

Why not both? Police and citizen militia?

 

 

Any entity can go bankrupt if it does not have funds to meet its debts. The only entities that would be exempt from this are national governments with fiat currencies, which can, in theory, inflate their debt away.

Yes, but it would cause mass civil unrest. I'd need more ammo for that. 

 

Why would a city have debts? Who are they borrowing off of and why?

I heard from Fox that it was pensions and CNN said it was bribing corporations "straight from city funds". I'm not saying that they didn't bribe, but straight from city funds would be a crime that the mayors need to be punished for. 

 

At first I was flabbergasted that you didn't know what municipal bonds are, but then I looked into it some more and discovered that the UK (basically) doesn't use them at all. But it looks like that may be changing.

Those killed me in SimCity 5. I just wanted a straight up gubbament loan... 

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It's not only bonds. The main cause of governments going broke is budgets being made in advance based on current projections, then revenue going to shit.

 

Corporate cops, paid by the government...on the face of it it's basically the same as it is now, with the exception of allegiance. The cops would hold their allegiance to the company and the company would hold it's allegiance to the shareholders. The problem would then dissolve into the common problem of capitalism, which is distribution.  

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Yeah, once the position was elaborated a little more fully, I realized that. I originally thought that we were talking about the same kind of privatization as the privatization of the mail services and healthcare. Still, if cities go bankrupt (Detroit, anyone?), will they have to forego police services (not that Detroit's police were doing a good job anyway)? That could be even worse than individuals being without protection. Instead of just the lower class not being protected, the middle class will be unprotected too (the upper class is untouchable).

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

You crack me up.

if you aren't a troll then i sorta hope you get the shit kicked out of you forever

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Any entity can go bankrupt if it does not have funds to meet its debts. The only entities that would be exempt from this are national governments with fiat currencies, which can, in theory, inflate their debt away.

In theory yes, but as Zimbabwe has shown that dosen't really work in practice.

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The Brits wouldn't provide law enforcement in some parts of the colonies. The Regulators acted as law enforcement on the side until they died. 

 

 

Morgan made it sound like we would be executing vigilante justice all the time. I'm totally in favor of people controlling their own !@#$ as much as they can. People should be able to respond to home invaders and attackers with as much force as is necessary. Is there a systemic problem with the current system we have? Absolutely. Would we better off without police officers? I don't think so. (for the record, I now understand that nobody is advocating the abolishment of police in favor of anarchy)

 

 

if you aren't a troll then i sorta hope you get the !@#$ kicked out of you forever

 It's okay. I love you too.  :wub:

 

EDIT: If Hereno hates me, does that mean I'm cool now?

Edited by Garrett Tipton
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i don't hate anyone but your comments there were pretty ignorant

You should rebut my comments with clear, reasoned arguments. You bolded part of one of my responses, but that doesn't refute anything I said. I have retracted the one where I was laughing, so focus on the one you bolded.

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Morgan made it sound like we would be executing vigilante justice all the time. I'm totally in favor of people controlling their own !@#$ as much as they can. People should be able to respond to home invaders and attackers with as much force as is necessary. Is there a systemic problem with the current system we have? Absolutely. Would we better off without police officers? I don't think so. (for the record, I now understand that nobody is advocating the abolishment of police in favor of anarchy)

 

 

 It's okay. I love you too.  :wub:

 

EDIT: If Hereno hates me, does that mean I'm cool now?

I don't believe vigilante would be the right word, but if the current issues with law enforcement in the United States continue the people have the right and the duty to take over the duties of law enforcement to protect themselves and their community. 

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You should rebut my comments with clear, reasoned arguments. You bolded part of one of my responses, but that doesn't refute anything I said. I have retracted the one where I was laughing, so focus on the one you bolded.

they're opinions, for one, and it isn't worth my time when you aren't going to learn anything from it anyway

 

--

 

back to the discussion

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they're opinions, for one, and it isn't worth my time when you aren't going to learn anything from it anyway

Come on, be a good sport. I'm not even sure what you find unsettling about my opinion. You specifically telling me what it is you dislike about my statements is teaching me something, whether or not I adopt your opinion as my own afterwards. 

 

I don't believe vigilante would be the right word, but if the current issues with law enforcement in the United States continue the people have the right and the duty to take over the duties of law enforcement to protect themselves and their community. 

It's not like every (or even most) cops are abusing their power, (although it definitely feels like it). As of this moment, I would be happy with the following things as opposed to citizens doing most of the policing themselves (if it gets any worse, I'm with you though):

1) A better selection process for hiring cops.

2) Cops getting kicked off the force after things like Ferguson and Eric Garner.

3) Cops that do the above getting prosecuted for their obvious crimes.

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I suppose if a cop stops you from being mugged you get handed a bill?  "Why thanks officer, I guess I'll hand my wallet over to you instead."

No we established this earlier. The police would be contracted by the state or directly by the government to police the area.

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Come on, be a good sport. I'm not even sure what you find unsettling about my opinion. You specifically telling me what it is you dislike about my statements is teaching me something, whether or not I adopt your opinion as my own afterwards. 

 

It's not like every (or even most) cops are abusing their power, (although it definitely feels like it). As of this moment, I would be happy with the following things as opposed to citizens doing most of the policing themselves (if it gets any worse, I'm with you though):

1) A better selection process for hiring cops.

2) Cops getting kicked off the force after things like Ferguson and Eric Garner.

3) Cops that do the above getting prosecuted for their obvious crimes.

I agree totally. Most law enforcement officers do what they are supposed to do. 

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No we established this earlier. The police would be contracted by the state or directly by the government to police the area.

 

Seems to not be much of a difference between the two.  A city isn't going to contact with a private company unless it follows the same procedures as it would if it employed the police directly.  I doubt a private company is going to be any more transparent or honest than a government organization. 

There are no men like me, there is only me

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Seems to not be much of a difference between the two.  A city isn't going to contact with a private company unless it follows the same procedures as it would if it employed the police directly.  I doubt a private company is going to be any more transparent or honest than a government organization. 

The government has to be as transparent as citizenship demands. Private companies do not. 

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The government has to be as transparent as citizenship demands. Private companies do not. 

 

True but if we are going to make a positive case for privitization of the police force, the knowledge that the company that is supposed to be protecting you will refuse any look into its business practices will be a severe blow to the trust it will want to build with the citizenry. Seems the police would seem even more like an occupying army, especially if they do not need to worry about oversight.

There are no men like me, there is only me

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Seems to not be much of a difference between the two.  A city isn't going to contact with a private company unless it follows the same procedures as it would if it employed the police directly.  I doubt a private company is going to be any more transparent or honest than a government organization. 

The difference is that you were initially talking about individual people paying the police, I'm saying that it's up to the political infrastructure to contract them.

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Except that there are private prisons. the American Correction Corporation in the US and G4S in the UK.

the fact that it happens is not proof that it isn't stupid. In fact, the track record of private prisons shows they lead to unjustifiably-long prison sentences and crowded, inhumane conditions.
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"It's hard to be a team player when you're omnipotent." - Q

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the fact that it happens is not proof that it isn't stupid. In fact, the track record of private prisons shows they lead to unjustifiably-long prison sentences and crowded, inhumane conditions.

My first thought when I read this was a Prison Architect mod where all prisoners are sentenced to 100,000,000 years. 

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True but if we are going to make a positive case for privitization of the police force, the knowledge that the company that is supposed to be protecting you will refuse any look into its business practices will be a severe blow to the trust it will want to build with the citizenry. Seems the police would seem even more like an occupying army, especially if they do not need to worry about oversight.

Private law enforcement is not a good idea. I am certain it would never happen, anyways. 

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