No one wants to take over the game

[Arthur Wellington]

Everyone is entitled to their own views, ofcourse. But previous two posters exactly show what I'm trying to point out.

I feel the very heavy handed emotional approach to this game creates a potential weird attitude towards PnW gameplay.

The sentence 'we all got friends we never heard a from again' could be followed by 'because of the evil NPO' and, to me, seems quite detached from reality. 

I do get what involved is, no need to tell me, but this kind of involvement to me seems to have lead to the constant need to either praise certain players or demonize others, even if they have been gone for years now. Time to move on, I'd say. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Arthur Wellington

[Adrienne]

1 hour ago, Arthur Wellington said:

Everyone is entitled to their own views, ofcourse. But precious two posters exactly show what I'm trying to point out.

I feel the very heavy handed emotional approach to this game creates a potential weird attitude towards PnW gameplay.

The sentence 'we all got friends we never heard a from again' could be followed by 'because of the evil NPO' and, to me, seems quite detached from reality. 

I do get what involved is, no need to tell me, but this kind of involvement to me seems to have lead to the constant need to either praise certain players or demonize others, even if they have been gone for years now. Time to move on, I'd say. 

With all due respect, if this is your takeaway from what was said, I don't think you got the point of the posts. My end conclusion was also that we need to continue moving on from it. The rest of my post and I presume Tartarus's as well is simply trying to further explain the sentiments at the time, because people who have come since then don't understand what it was like at the time - thank God for that - but they need to, to understand the mindset of some of the older players and why some folks might still be the way they are at times.

You can call it a weird attitude/involvement or detached from reality if you want, that's your prerogative. But the truth of the matter is that people do get attached to the game and their communities, always have and always will, and that period was damaging on multiple levels. I'd rather help spread understanding than minimize the experiences of those who were present at the time.

Player mindsets and sentiments isn't everything I'm referring to either when I talk about recovery so don't make this out as though it's some weird overly emotional thing and dismiss it. We also lost NPO, old BK, GotG, etc who, like them or not, filled a role of being major players and major spheres. We're better off without them but make no mistake - their departure left a crater in game politics. I feel like we're only really now beginning to fill that void with alliances like TI and Aurora who were young at the time all this went down but who have become more formidable in their own right since. That took time. You can't fix something like that overnight. And like others have said, the return of things like terms from alliances who would normally do them (as fricking annoying as it was to be on the receiving end of that this past war) is a good indicator that things are beginning to normalize again.

NPOLT (and NPO and co by association) get talked about so much because it was a defining game event. There's nothing wrong with that. That said, I'd much rather the NPO accusations/assumptions of accusations stopped too and have said as much for years. I'm certainly not condoning it as you're implying but you're not going to achieve your desires with regards to this with a "suck it up, buttercup" attitude that's dismissive of the substantial progress that has been made in the time since NPOLT. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But these issues have lessened significantly since then and will continue to do so, especially as the distance between now and NPOLT continues to grow and alliances themselves continue to move on, gain new leadership, and take new paths.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Adrienne

[Buorhann]

I’ll take over the game.

[Prefonteen]

4 hours ago, Adrienne said:

Even this is a heavy understatement. It was to the point that even the most active players in this game no longer wanted to engage anymore and that takes a substantial effort. When even alliance gov and leadership don't have the heart to continue and start going inactive, that's a new level of fatigue. It was more physically mentally and emotionally draining than any game ever has a right to be and there was no end in sight. We were fighting an opponent who was quite literally determined to eliminate us from the game and they were doing a rather good of it up until the point the cheating scandal broke. The end of that war was incredibly abrupt and the only reason it did stop was because of the opposing member response to temporary bans handed out to their leadership from the cheating scandal verdict. As you stated, had a heavy toll on the game and thousands of players - friends, alliance mates, alliances, etc. - were gone. We've all got friends from then we've never heard from again.

It's something I'm glad we're recovering from - and yeah, honestly, I would still say we're in recovery in some ways and I'll agree with the general sentiment that the game as a whole may still be a bit gun shy over it all and I hope we continue to move beyond that - but it's leaps and bounds beyond where we were even a year ago. We'll continue recovering and moving on but I hope we'll never forget because the last thing we need is a repeat.

And there on that distant hill stood Partisan. His pink cape draped over his shoulders, loosely hanging in the wind. He surveyed the clamors of  the people of Orbis and with every frightened scream of agony his posture straightened further and his stature seemed to rise. Behind him the contours of a confused and leaderless Syndicate army was vaguely visible. He raised  his arm. The world came into motion around him.

According to preeminent historians, a guineapig burned his computer by the end of  that saga.

2 hours ago, Arthur Wellington said:

Everyone is entitled to their own views, ofcourse. But precious two posters exactly show what I'm trying to point out.

I feel the very heavy handed emotional approach to this game creates a potential weird attitude towards PnW gameplay.

The sentence 'we all got friends we never heard a from again' could be followed by 'because of the evil NPO' and, to me, seems quite detached from reality. 

I do get what involved is, no need to tell me, but this kind of involvement to me seems to have lead to the constant need to either praise certain players or demonize others, even if they have been gone for years now. Time to move on, I'd say. 

History informs politics

History shapes society.

This is a basic rule IRL whether you like it or not. It's a concept that carries to these games because the common denominator, *mankind* is the architect of both. It's only natural that PW's history with e.g. NPO is referenced over time. Before that was the case, many (in and around IQ even) referenced syndisphere and EMC in similar vein.

Same thing with the good-bad dichotomy. People are just naturally inclined to view themselves as righteous and whatever opposes them as evil. Let people remininsce their stories and take it with a grain of salt imo. It doesnt say a whole lot about game health atm. 

I do agree that its ok to be (mildly) "bad" to other actors in this game from an ingame pov.Make stories ad create drama. Emotional attachment there should be kept  to a minimum. 

42 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

I’ll take over the game.

BUORHANN THE INDOMITABLE

Edited January 28, 2023 by Prefonteen

[Arthur Wellington]

22 hours ago, Adrienne said:

With all due respect, if this is your takeaway from what was said, I don't think you got the point of the posts. My end conclusion was also that we need to continue moving on from it. The rest of my post and I presume Tartarus's as well is simply trying to further explain the sentiments at the time, because people who have come since then don't understand what it was like at the time - thank God for that - but they need to, to understand the mindset of some of the older players and why some folks might still be the way they are at times.

You can call it a weird attitude/involvement or detached from reality if you want, that's your prerogative. But the truth of the matter is that people do get attached to the game and their communities, always have and always will, and that period was damaging on multiple levels. I'd rather help spread understanding than minimize the experiences of those who were present at the time.

Player mindsets and sentiments isn't everything I'm referring to either when I talk about recovery so don't make this out as though it's some weird overly emotional thing and dismiss it. We also lost NPO, old BK, GotG, etc who, like them or not, filled a role of being major players and major spheres. We're better off without them but make no mistake - their departure left a crater in game politics. I feel like we're only really now beginning to fill that void with alliances like TI and Aurora who were young at the time all this went down but who have become more formidable in their own right since. That took time. You can't fix something like that overnight. And like others have said, the return of things like terms from alliances who would normally do them (as fricking annoying as it was to be on the receiving end of that this past war) is a good indicator that things are beginning to normalize again.

NPOLT (and NPO and co by association) get talked about so much because it was a defining game event. There's nothing wrong with that. That said, I'd much rather the NPO accusations/assumptions of accusations stopped too and have said as much for years. I'm certainly not condoning it as you're implying but you're not going to achieve your desires with regards to this with a "suck it up, buttercup" attitude that's dismissive of the substantial progress that has been made in the time since NPOLT. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But these issues have lessened significantly since then and will continue to do so, especially as the distance between now and NPOLT continues to grow and alliances themselves continue to move on, gain new leadership, and take new paths.

~Suck it up, buttercup~

Nice one, I should have started with that.  

My point was and is that this game doesnt need a big bad wolf. I pointed out that there have been many other alliances and people since NPO that have performed a role in PnW gameplay and politics which people could use to be talking about. NPO's role might have been big, (it is a very effective group in several games!) it doesnt, in my view, justify the intense longing for them fulfilling the role they get now. Exactly what your last sentence described, move on, new leaders, new drama, happend. Many times over. 

I do find sentences like 'susbtanial progress since' and 'It was more physically mentally and emotionally draining than any game ever has a right to be' rather intense and to be honest, a bit scary to be frank. Pointing that out isnt meant as an ad hominem, but my point about NPO getting too much credit (?!) in relation to the many events and people playing this game since npolt. 

22 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

And there on that distant hill stood Partisan. His pink cape draped over his shoulders, loosely hanging in the wind. He surveyed the clamors of  the people of Orbis and with every frightened scream of agony his posture straightened further and his stature seemed to rise. Behind him the contours of a confused and leaderless Syndicate army was vaguely visible. He raised  his arm. The world came into motion around him.

According to preeminent historians, a guineapig burned his computer by the end of  that saga.

History informs politics

History shapes society.

This is a basic rule IRL whether you like it or not. It's a concept that carries to these games because the common denominator, *mankind* is the architect of both. It's only natural that PW's history with e.g. NPO is referenced over time. Before that was the case, many (in and around IQ even) referenced syndisphere and EMC in similar vein.

Same thing with the good-bad dichotomy. People are just naturally inclined to view themselves as righteous and whatever opposes them as evil. Let people remininsce their stories and take it with a grain of salt imo. It doesnt say a whole lot about game health atm. 

I do agree that its ok to be (mildly) "bad" to other actors in this game from an ingame pov.Make stories ad create drama. Emotional attachment there should be kept  to a minimum. 

 

History is written, thats the basic rule as well. Sure, reference to NPO sometimes and then enjoy current good - bad ideas, write new history. Only in the last few months we had great fun with several GW's, role shifts, leadership changes and drama. And yeah, i'd love that grain of salt! 🙂

tldr; too much NPO still, even if they did have a big role years ago, give other alliances attempting to be nr 1 more attention. 


*insert another  awesome meme about grave digging here*

 

[Adrienne]

1 hour ago, Arthur Wellington said:

I do find sentences like 'susbtanial progress since' and 'It was more physically mentally and emotionally draining than any game ever has a right to be' rather intense and to be honest, a bit scary to be frank.

Good. I don't know why the progress bit scares you and that it does kind of scares me to be frank but the other was intended to be intense because that time period was... kinda intense. It was a shitty time and it's not an event that needs repeating. That said....

1 hour ago, Arthur Wellington said:

Sure, reference to NPO sometimes and then enjoy current good - bad ideas, write new history. Only in the last few months we had great fun with several GW's, role shifts, leadership changes and drama. And yeah, i'd love that grain of salt! 🙂

This is more or less where it's at now soooooo.... I definitely think you're blowing the current state of things out of proportion. NPO isn't an active bad guy or big bad wolf - it may still be present in folks' minds but it's mostly just history at this point. Current events and alliances are receiving plenty of love, believe you me. This thread and one other instance of a mention this are the other major mentions of what you're referring to I can think of in recent times and mentions of it should continue to lessen as times go on.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Adrienne

[Arthur Wellington]

I can imagine it ´being kinda shitty´ but man, mentally and physically, thats extremely heavy and way out of proportion for this game (which I enjoy, and im invested btw). In relation to NPO, I was/am reacting to the OP, what one does on forums I think. 

Lets talk about IRON more!

[Adrienne]

It was supposed to read mentally and emotionally, I'm not sure how physically snuck it's way into there but yeah, it was heavy. If you weren't there and dealing with it directly, you don't know how it was, so please don't tell me it's "out of proportion". I was a leader during that war so I was in the thick of it and I know exactly how it was and the effects it had on me and other leaders/gov at the time. Saying it was "more mentally and emotionally draining than any game has a right to be" is nothing short of the truth.

If the topic bores you and you want to talk about IRON, go talk about IRON. 

[Kastor]

On 1/16/2023 at 5:34 PM, Buorhann said:

Bipolar world sucked and still sucks.

Bi-polar world only started to suck when NPO sphere decided to just drag out wars for months to de incentivize from everyone attacking them. 

[Kastor]

On 1/28/2023 at 2:14 AM, Arthur Wellington said:

Everyone is entitled to their own views, ofcourse. But previous two posters exactly show what I'm trying to point out.

I feel the very heavy handed emotional approach to this game creates a potential weird attitude towards PnW gameplay.

The sentence 'we all got friends we never heard a from again' could be followed by 'because of the evil NPO' and, to me, seems quite detached from reality. 

I do get what involved is, no need to tell me, but this kind of involvement to me seems to have lead to the constant need to either praise certain players or demonize others, even if they have been gone for years now. Time to move on, I'd say. 

Lmfaooooo this is such a weird post. People can’t be friends in this game? I’ve met probably 5-9 people who if I had a choice, I would talk to the rest of my life. They aren’t like my irl friends, but it’s nice sometimes to talk to people who aren’t expressly in your life. 
 

To lose those friends because of what happened, makes perfect sense.

[Buorhann]

3 hours ago, Kastor said:

Bi-polar world only started to suck when NPO sphere decided to just drag out wars for months to de incentivize from everyone attacking them. 

Syndisphere vs Paragon-ish was getting boring.

[Arthur Wellington]

12 hours ago, Kastor said:

Lmfaooooo this is such a weird post. People can’t be friends in this game? I’ve met probably 5-9 people who if I had a choice, I would talk to the rest of my life. They aren’t like my irl friends, but it’s nice sometimes to talk to people who aren’t expressly in your life. 
 

To lose those friends because of what happened, makes perfect sense.

Lmfaooooo to yours, people deleting their PnW account don't die like we are in the matrix? You can still contact them via discord, CN or NS?? What rabbit hold did I get myself in?

[Adrienne]

7 minutes ago, Arthur Wellington said:

Lmfaooooo to yours, people deleting their PnW account don't die like we are in the matrix? You can still contact them via discord, CN or NS?? What rabbit hold did I get myself in?

No one said they died lmao. But most people aren't in other nation sims like CN and NS and a lot of folks don't use discord extensively except for this game, so when they left, they left and you didn't hear from them again. You're the one making this more dramatic than it is lol.

[Arthur Wellington]

1 hour ago, Adrienne said:

No one said they died lmao. But most people aren't in other nation sims like CN and NS and a lot of folks don't use discord extensively except for this game, so when they left, they left and you didn't hear from them again. You're the one making this more dramatic than it is lol.

I'm sorry that my view isnt in line with yours and that upsets people.

Kastor points out my view is weird and I try to explain that people don't vanish if they leave PnW, not going along with the idea I'd think you can't have online friends. Sure one can. 

[Kastor]

11 hours ago, Arthur Wellington said:

I'm sorry that my view isnt in line with yours and that upsets people.

Kastor points out my view is weird and I try to explain that people don't vanish if they leave PnW, not going along with the idea I'd think you can't have online friends. Sure one can. 

I'm glad you've given us your permission, oh mighty wellington

[Zed]

17 hours ago, Adrienne said:

No one said they died lmao. But most people aren't in other nation sims like CN and NS and a lot of folks don't use discord extensively except for this game, so when they left, they left and you didn't hear from them again. You're the one making this more dramatic than it is lol.

 

I know this will be very hypocritical, but y'all please come on - I hope we are not playing CN and NS now. PnW is bad enough as it is.

[Mayor]

On 1/29/2023 at 9:50 PM, Arthur Wellington said:

Lmfaooooo to yours, people deleting their PnW account don't die like we are in the matrix? You can still contact them via discord, CN or NS?? What rabbit hold did I get myself in?

I have to wonder if you have any friends at all tbh. Playing PnW may make us all social outcasts at the end of the day but most of us still find a way to build relationships here. Many times I have had people leave the game and leave all servers or delete their discord entirely and that is that. Tbh I don't personally care but laughing at others about it and then trying to paint them as overly dramatic and being a detriment to the game is quite low.

On 1/30/2023 at 12:04 AM, Arthur Wellington said:

I'm sorry that my view isnt in line with yours and that upsets people.

Kastor points out my view is weird and I try to explain that people don't vanish if they leave PnW, not going along with the idea I'd think you can't have online friends. Sure one can. 

Your specific view isn't what upsets people it is your condescending attitude and consistent belittling of others alternative viewpoints. Try to be less of an asshat.

[Firwof Kromwell]

On 1/31/2023 at 9:40 AM, Mayor said:

Tbh I don't personally care but laughing at others about it and then trying to paint them as overly dramatic and being a detriment to the game is quite low.

Your specific view isn't what upsets people it is your condescending attitude and consistent belittling of others alternative viewpoints. Try to be less of an asshat.

*stares at the your forum posts around Bifrost Blitz*

That pick up of "attitude and actions" is still based off of another's self imposed inflictions than his own confrontations he has laid out. Always could ask even make a genuine statement bout something at hand but naw, gotta defend the ones own ego plus its memory than reform it via setting it aside. Take your own medicine ole man, you are becoming more delusional day by day you dont take it. You are gonna end up hurting yourself & others even if you dont.

 

side note: ngl, that signature Adri has for how tkr & co is supposed to be makes situations like this highly ironic

 

What's more ironic for example is how much people complain how bad Cam specially likes around Epi yet we haven't done anything much major to politics for a very long time whilst being a neutral mostly. There are a few other alliances in similar concept to Cam although we usually get dunked for it. So people going after people like Epi even whole alliance like Cam who try to stay neutral only to treat them like a villain heavily just cause they wont mostly align ego wise is a self desired infliction, not the other(s) one is projecting towards.

[Arthur Wellington]

On 1/30/2023 at 8:50 PM, Kastor said:

I'm glad you've given us your permission, oh mighty wellington

 

On 1/31/2023 at 4:40 PM, Mayor said:

I have to wonder if you have any friends at all tbh. Playing PnW may make us all social outcasts at the end of the day but most of us still find a way to build relationships here. Many times I have had people leave the game and leave all servers or delete their discord entirely and that is that. Tbh I don't personally care but laughing at others about it and then trying to paint them as overly dramatic and being a detriment to the game is quite low.

Your specific view isn't what upsets people it is your condescending attitude and consistent belittling of others alternative viewpoints. Try to be less of an asshat.

Oh both of you sod off with your condensing tones, laughing your ass oooooofffff at a clear misrepresention of my thoughts on online friendships and calling me an asshat.

Im simply stating my views on the hole issue and phrasing of it and trying to make light of it (because that's my whole point!) especially trying not to make it personal but not going along with the emotional way of looking at pnw history. I'm not being humble towards other views while also not disrespecting other views.

 

I do agree NPO did a bad thing, I just think their role anno 2023 shouldn't be as big as it is now, and sure, disagree with me!

 

 

Too finalize for me, I'll stop replying now. I actually really like this game and its community. Not because I agree but I like the diversity and the engagement, also of kastor and Adrienne and many others (not you Mayor ;-)). I do realize my view differs and my intent isn't to troll or make people feel bad or stupid or anything, but I do feel I can add something by sharing my view. That's it. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Arthur Wellington

[Sphinx]

On 1/30/2023 at 4:50 PM, Arthur Wellington said:

Lmfaooooo to yours, people deleting their PnW account don't die like we are in the matrix? You can still contact them via discord, CN or NS?? What rabbit hold did I get myself in?

Yeah I need to jump in here. 

@Adrienne what Adrienne said I agree with as she does a good job of summing up the void that NPOLT's end did for the game. IQ departure still hasn't fully been replaced, and the game's FA meta is still influenced by the actions of parties in that conflict and will continue to influence things as long as people who were around in NPOLT continue to hold power in alliances. NPOLT will remain as an FA talking point until a new generation completely replaces those who were around back then.

What a lot of newer players don't seem to understand is that the current geopolitical meta is still influenced by the actions of parties in NPOLT, more so than other past global wars. Similar to how after WW2, the allies set about creating a new geopolitical order. Which lasts to this day (Current German borders, existence of North/South Korea, Sakhalin).

That said, I do think some people do rely on this war a bit too much for justification for why certain FA actions are good or bad, or why their alliance thinks in a particular way. However this goes back to the first point how most of these alliances still have the same people who were in leadership back during NPOLT either still as leaders or in high gov/advisor positions so their influence is still strongly felt. 

And I do agree that some alliances have this fear of being labelled as "IQ like" when they try to push terms beyond a simple white peace or force a NAP. That I disagree with and think is bad for the game, but again this is a problem that time will fix as new people enter gov. 

Lastly, I feel you missed the point Nizam made when she mentioned how people are gone because of the war. Yes they obviously aren't dead because of NPOLT. But what she's referring to is many people deleted their Discord accounts or other platforms and left online browser gaming entirely since PnW was the only one they played and NPOLT made them sick of the genre of games. For many of these people, those who remain have no way of contacting them. I fought on both sides of the conflict, so I got to see the attrition impact communities on both sides of the divide. There were people whom I was friends with who deleted who I chatted to for years but after NPOLT, nobody ever heard from them again. 

Also.. the only alliance I'm 100% happy they're gone from the game is GOONS. 

EDIT: Added context, expanded and refined points and clarifyed things for some people.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Sphinx

[Mayor]

13 hours ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

*stares at the your forum posts around Bifrost Blitz*

That pick up of "attitude and actions" is still based off of another's self imposed inflictions than his own confrontations he has laid out. Always could ask even make a genuine statement bout something at hand but naw, gotta defend the ones own ego plus its memory than reform it via setting it aside. Take your own medicine ole man, you are becoming more delusional day by day you dont take it. You are gonna end up hurting yourself & others even if you dont.

 

side note: ngl, that signature Adri has for how tkr & co is supposed to be makes situations like this highly ironic

 

What's more ironic for example is how much people complain how bad Cam specially likes around Epi yet we haven't done anything much major to politics for a very long time whilst being a neutral mostly. There are a few other alliances in similar concept to Cam although we usually get dunked for it. So people going after people like Epi even whole alliance like Cam who try to stay neutral only to treat them like a villain heavily just cause they wont mostly align ego wise is a self desired infliction, not the other(s) one is projecting towards.

Firwof: "you are becoming more delusional day by day"

Also Firwof: goes on crazy unhinged rant defending Camelot and Epi for literally no reason

[Buck Turgidson]

On 1/8/2023 at 2:02 AM, Lord of Puns said:

This is what happens when you leave the political scene for a while. You fall into old tropes. Any person that truly believes that this game can be won forgets the 90 different times people have claimed this “win” or built “the perfect hegemony”. 

As someone who’s old playstyle was, “!@#$ !@#$es, steal banks” - you should know more than anyone that the goal of this game is whatever you make of it. But most of the game has moved past sustained global domination and stagnation m8

You know, people told me the same thing before I won CyberNations. Who's laughing now?

[Hodor]

On 1/30/2023 at 1:07 AM, Adrienne said:

No one said they died lmao. But most people aren't in other nation sims like CN and NS and a lot of folks don't use discord extensively except for this game, so when they left, they left and you didn't hear from them again. You're the one making this more dramatic than it is lol.

Context for this discussion:

[Arthur Wellington]

Btw, Detective Hodor, few points there,

* I'm unbelievable because once a member of BK?

* If so, not believable because being part of a certain side

* If so, every aa member opposed to NPO is unbelievable as well?

 

And for the last time,

I do think NPO Lt was a very shitty thing! Good thats gone and done with. I just have a different view on the RP part of this game, its relevance and its impact.

 

 

[Buorhann]

On 2/1/2023 at 10:05 AM, Firwof Kromwell said:

-Snip-

Do you ever just stfu?