Development Team Update, November 2022

[Prefontaine]

The following changes are slated to be coded for the test server. When they are implemented a test server event will be held to test these features in mass. Achievements and Awards will be given in came for participation, finding bugs, etc... Not everything on this list will make it live, which is the point of the testing. A few items may be controversial, like a change to navy. If it's viewed as too powerful it can be tweaked. 

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Beige Changes for testing:

• Every player defeated in a defensive war results in 2.5 days (30 turns) of beige.
• Every player defeated in an offensive war results in 0.5 days (6 turns) of beige.
• All wars that end from expiration result in beige for the defending party.
• Beige accruals are capped at 5 days (60 turns).
• Beige accruals do not begin reducing down until all defensive wars end. 
• Expired wars do not damage infrastructure or give loot like normal beige does.

 

These changes are to eliminate wars from being decided in the first attack and eliminate beige cycling 64% of the game at the time of this poll wanted some change to the system. Additionally, the top two problems with war are both of the above issues. This system gives nations the option to rebuild and try to coordinate if they choose to. 

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Superiority Changes for testing:

• Two IT's are required to gain superiority over an opponent.
  • This does not require consecutive, you can get a Pyrrhic, Moderate, etc... in-between the ITs.
• If the opponent get's a Pyrrhic Victory or better in that arena (ground v ground, air v air) then it reduces the superiority level by 1. 
  • Partial -> No Sup. or Full -> Partial
• Getting a partial superiority gives you half the benefit. 
  • The second IT ground attack only destroys 50% of what it would for planes. The third IT kills the full amount.
  • The first IT air attack reduces tank effectiveness by 50% of the full superiority
• Naval Immense Triumphs can reduce the superiority against a nation by 1 phase
  • The naval attacker would need to choose which superiority is reduced, ground or air
  • Theses superiority reductions do not initiate a blockade
  • This only impacts the war where the naval attack happens

 

This change is to increase the time before a nation can be locked down with both ground and air superiorities in a war. The change to naval is to buff the importance of ships. It's bolded because it may be far too much of a buff and needs testing to determine.

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Score Change

Cities score returned too 100 per city after the first instead of 75. 

 

Regularly requested. There's been a more complex score change overhaul proposed, but if this change does enough, so be it. I'm shelving the score change for the moment in lieu of these other changes. The next big update we'll see if more changes to score calculations are needed.

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Loot Modifier

 

Didn't get a chance to really go through this with Village, and I don't want to speak for him or delay this thread further. So these changes will be implemented for testing.

Apologies for the slow month or so from me. Life got very crazy for several weeks, but I'm back now. Some probably take that as bad news, but regardless I wanted provide context about the delays. 

Major Additions Coming Down The Line:

• Perks posted in the within the month (hopefully this coming week). Time unlocked nation benefits
• Commodities (yes, those) targeted for Summer '23.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Prefontaine

[Zoot]

I...don't hate any of this. Might not end up having the intended effect, but it sounds like a worthwhile attempt.

[KindaEpicMoah]

Mfw the long awaited and universally loved commodities feature is finally getting released

 

[darkblade]

42 minutes ago, KindaEpicMoah said:

Mfw the long awaited and universally loved commodities feature is finally getting released

 

4 years to go before we see it in game.

[Prefontaine]

5 minutes ago, darkblade said:

4 years to go before we see it in game.

Summer '23 is the target (if it's going to be implemented). Lets see how off we are!

[darkblade]

2 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

Summer '23 is the target (if it's going to be implemented). Lets see how off we are!

could make it happen sooner if Alex is looking to hire some interns over the summer. 😉

[Dryad]

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Cities score returned too 100 per city after the first instead of 75. 

Please don't.

[The Titan]

2 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Cities score returned too 100 per city after the first instead of 75. 

Isn't this like the 10th time we've done the back and forth between 100 and some other score?
Everything else looks great tho 🤞

2 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Perks posted in the within the month (hopefully this coming week). Time unlocked nation benefits

in the within the month? I'm confused as to what's the meaning? You mean like by the end of December we'll see perks?
Are you meaning perks like what was proposed with troops like years ago? iirc the code for that already exists

https://politicsandwar.com/index.php/?id=129

Edited November 28, 2022 by The Titan

[lightside]

Don't change the city score... Everyone hated it being 100 per city. Literally no one wants it back to 100. 

[Sri Lanka 001]

stop upping city score bruh, made me log in to this god forsaken forum just to post this  

[Sam Cooper]

I might be lost but I haven't seen any "regular requests" to change city score back to 100.

[Zei-Sakura Alsainn]

34 minutes ago, Sam Cooper said:

I might be lost but I haven't seen any "regular requests" to change city score back to 100.

No you don't understand, the regular requests were made by Pre himself, because nobody who actually plays the game wants this and literally everyone asked for it to be lowered.

[Aria Serielye]

Why does everyone want city score lowered?

All it does is allow people to punch down.... Significantly.
C25 hitting C11s/C12s...

Oh... Maybe the big alliances like punching smaller people..

[gerry oldsworth III]

3 hours ago, Aria Serielye said:

Why does everyone want city score lowered?

All it does is allow people to punch down.... Significantly.
C25 hitting C11s/C12s...

Oh... Maybe the big alliances like punching smaller people..

75 is a sweet spot where it's pretty much balanced, speaking as a c28 who had to shed almost all my infra and buy money off the market to compensate for the amount i lose because of my low infra. (and most of us just want to see this whole matter dropped cause almost every update the mod team wants to change that modifier and it never fixes any of the underlying issues)

[Aria Serielye]

34 minutes ago, LarsarisN said:

75 is a sweet spot where it's pretty much balanced, speaking as a c28 who had to shed almost all my infra and buy money off the market to compensate for the amount i lose because of my low infra. (and most of us just want to see this whole matter dropped cause almost every update the mod team wants to change that modifier and it never fixes any of the underlying issues)

Whilst I know you do hit C30s (Respectable). Hmmm.
I would like to point out...
You are a raider, you get your money from raiding, thus it doesn't matter how low your infra is (and you can hit lower and lower things with low Infra, thus you profit more). C28 vs C17,18,19,20s
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1510795
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1507687
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1507259
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1507254
https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1501351

[Aria Serielye]

10 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Superiority Changes for testing:

• Two IT's are required to gain superiority over an opponent.
  • This does not require consecutive, you can get a Pyrrhic, Moderate, etc... in-between the ITs.
• If the opponent get's a Pyrrhic Victory or better in that arena (ground v ground, air v air) then it reduces the superiority level by 1. 
  • Partial -> No Sup. or Full -> Partial
• Getting a partial superiority gives you half the benefit. 
  • The second IT ground attack only destroys 50% of what it would for planes. The third IT kills the full amount.
  • The first IT air attack reduces tank effectiveness by 50% of the full superiority
• Naval Immense Triumphs can reduce the superiority against a nation by 1 phase
  • The naval attacker would need to choose which superiority is reduced, ground or air
  • Theses superiority reductions do not initiate a blockade
  • This only impacts the war where the naval attack happens

Will Navies still be able to blockade with these changes?
 

[Sam Cooper]

  

14 minutes ago, Aria Serielye said:

~snip~

Raiding is not really a good universal example, but while you are talking about it, it is not as simple as downdeclaring and you instantly win. If a raider has more cities than you they would probably win regardless unless you use your numbers right, and if you come up with a system where someone can't downdeclare with low infra and military that gives you a thousand other problems to deal with but that's not the point here.
Lars didn't put it correctly and it is not just about raiding at all, but I will try to write/make something that might help you understand how score affects you.
The "big alliances" don't propose changes thinking of how they can better hit micros, no one does that, the point is to have a system that's relatively fair for everyone in most situations.

[KindaEpicMoah]

29 minutes ago, Aria Serielye said:

You are a raider, you get your money from raiding, thus it doesn't matter how low your infra is (and you can hit lower and lower things with low Infra, thus you profit more). C28 vs C17,18,19,20s

This is not an issue because of city score, this is an issue because of military/infra score. Time and time again people have emphasized that the amount of score military gives is ridiculously low and has been too low since Alex changed them on a whim back in 2020, but we haven't seen any changes to military score in years. Please, at the very least, make an emergency fix to increase military score back to pre-May 2020 levels instead of changing city score back to 100. Changing city score back to 100 does not fix or even begin to address why downdeclares are so problematic. 

[KingGhost]

13 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Score Change

Cities score returned too 100 per city after the first instead of 75. 

Many people have already commented about how no1 wants this, but.

 

If you are looking to change city scores please wait till at least we see the military changes in 1 war to determine if the up/down dec ranges even need to be changed with how new combat works AND if you change city scores you need to change some military scores too and up them a little bit because changing just this just means the same problems we had before with this exact change will happen.

Not that this should even be changed imo, but if it must be done at least do it right.

[Prefontaine]

15 hours ago, The Titan said:

in the within the month? I'm confused as to what's the meaning? You mean like by the end of December we'll see perks?
Are you meaning perks like what was proposed with troops like years ago? iirc the code for that already exists

https://politicsandwar.com/index.php/?id=129

It's something different. And by within the month I mean within a month from posting, so before the Holidays next month. My hope is to have it posted next week though, I'm giving some wiggle room though. 

13 hours ago, Sam Cooper said:

I might be lost but I haven't seen any "regular requests" to change city score back to 100.

Lots of discord convos, radio shows, there were some posts, regular design team convos, etc... There may not be a ton of forum posts but the general break down is Raiders/pirates want lower city score others either don't care or want cities returned to the higher rate.

Cities used to be 50, then became 100, then went back to 75. If you want to see some of the feedback on it go look at the thread where the change happened.

7 hours ago, Aria Serielye said:

Will Navies still be able to blockade with these changes?
 

Yes, blockades isn't being touched. If Naval removing superiorities feels just a touch too powerful we may make it so that Navals can either blockade or remove a sup to slightly weaken the abilities. 

[Prefontaine]

4 hours ago, KingGhost said:

Many people have already commented about how no1 wants this, but.

 

If you are looking to change city scores please wait till at least we see the military changes in 1 war to determine if the up/down dec ranges even need to be changed with how new combat works AND if you change city scores you need to change some military scores too and up them a little bit because changing just this just means the same problems we had before with this exact change will happen.

Not that this should even be changed imo, but if it must be done at least do it right.

This is largely while I shelved the major score rework for this update. The team has had some long threads about score changes and ranges but I wanted this go first as score changes are a much easier tweak than this update/coding wise. This also have a much greater impact on the war system in how it works. Scores just determine who can fight who. 

Again, this is for testing, and if it's widely disliked its a very easy thing to roll-back. 

EDIT:

To address the score change for cities in general: 

When changes that lower the score happen the people who don't like it typically come out to talk. When it gets raised people who don't like it come out to talk. Generally speaking with issues that have a decent amount of people on both sides, you're only going to get the unhappy party showing up to voice their concerns. This is a very small part of the big picture in terms of changes that is really easy to add or not.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Prefontaine

[Prefontaine]

7 hours ago, KindaEpicMoah said:

This is not an issue because of city score, this is an issue because of military/infra score. Time and time again people have emphasized that the amount of score military gives is ridiculously low and has been too low since Alex changed them on a whim back in 2020, but we haven't seen any changes to military score in years. Please, at the very least, make an emergency fix to increase military score back to pre-May 2020 levels instead of changing city score back to 100. Changing city score back to 100 does not fix or even begin to address why downdeclares are so problematic. 

The main thing that needs to be decided on is what ratio is needed for the different aspects of score. It doesn't matter what numbers you associate with things, but what percentage of the whole. Here's one example of what I'm talking about: 

 

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Infra - Each infra counts as 0.024 to score, capping at 2500 infra per city, giving a max of 60 score per city from infra. The ~15 points to get it from 60 --> 75 come from missiles/nukes. 25% of score

Cities - 75 score each. 25% of scoreMilitary 
Aircraft - 0.8 Per (60 Score per city)
Tanks - 0.04 Per (50 score per city)
Soldiers -  0.0014 Per (21 score per city)
Ships - 1.265 per (19.05 score per city)
total of 150.05
50% of score

 

Thus, if you wanted a score set up that was Infra : Cities : Mil being 1 : 1 : 2 ratio it may look something like that. 

 

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Another Example: Infra : Cities : Mil = 30 : 75 : 45 ( 2 : 5 : 3 )

 

C30 (29 cities at 75 score)
City: 2175
Max Mil: 1350
Max Infra: 900

Score: 4425
Max Down declare: 3318.75
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C30 (29 cities at 75 score)
City: 2175
Max Mil: 1350
700 Infra: 252 (IF LINEAR)

Score: 3777
Max Down Declare: 2832.75
-------------------------------------------
C30 (29 cities at 75 score)
City: 2175
No Mil: 0
700 Infra: 252 (IF LINEAR)

 

It's really the ratio balance you want to hammer down. Getting hung up on numbers is pointless compared to figuring out the ratio you'd want. 

[Mohammad]

I like the City Score change. idk why everyone is hating on it. wars should be fought based primarily on City count, because that's what determines the total military capacity of a nation. infa doesn't really matter, and using military score as the basis for wars is redundant. 

 

The superiority changes sound stupid imho. I am personally in favor of Ground being returned to blocking 1/3rd of enemy plane power. rn tanks can kill/destroy/steal everything but ships. But requiring 2 IT' to get the effects just over-complicates everything. My personal hot take is return to the 6 ground IT's for victory. I remember those wars could easily be turned by coordinating with skills and not just dogpiling. It only took 1 break in the enemy to return to square 0. If you were smart with ur buys/attack's, you had a chance. Now its just who blitzed first, congrats on winning the war.  but I haven't found many who agreed with me on this so idk. 

 

i like the beige changes, but I would also like for some mechanism to encourage finishing wars FAST. The goal should be to beat the enemy, and beat them fast. "sitting" on someone seems like it defeats purpose of a fun game. Maybe have increased loot/infa damage in start of war, and have it be reduced as war drags on, so its more worthwhile to beat Nation A and move on to beat Nation B quickly, instead of sitting on Nation A for 5 days.

 

An easy fix I have always thought about is reducing defensive slots to 2 instead of 3. It would greatly reduce impact of dogpile, since saturation for dogpiles will be 2-1. It would also require the 2 attacking nations to coordinate together, and so makes life easier for trying to coordinate a push. Overall, i feel it would just make the game fairer, and let people who are hit have a fighting chance. 

 

If u have any constructive criticism, backed with facts/logic, and fueled by genuinely wanting to improve the game xp for everyone then PLEASE, feel free to reply and lmk what you think

 

If you have anything else, then kindly roll it up and shove it up ur ass. 

 

 

 

 

[Neo Le]

Overall I see no issue with these changes other than city score... just please no.

[Kadin]

Are these beige changes going to come into effect? If so, when?