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5 hours ago, Kurdanak said:

What gives you the confidence to say that there was a 100% chance we'd hit you before the NAP ended, exactly? (a 100% chance on that, but a slim slim chance of Ouroboros not joining this war in some form...) That's a genuine question, because there's plenty of room for doubt on that, lmao - our split with t$ was cordial, why go for their head? Even with you and Keegoz thirsting around Orbis for our coalition-based defeat. I'm relatively sure our priorities have lied elsewhere this NAP, like rebuilding and recovering from our back-to-back wars. :P 

Those are fair questions considering we have to take into account the Rose-effect with alliances.

3 hours ago, Kurdanak said:

Meanwhile, coming at Wayward without a CB ourselves conveniently before the NAP ends?

Eclipse participated in a war that chained from one to another.  Ouro also initiated a war with no CB against GGO after the Hollywood split.  You know, the huge dogpile one.

Soo...

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10 hours ago, Kurdanak said:

I still see way more options available with the alternative of not intervening against Midgard with nada CB. Essentially, the opposite of what Kev thinks - I find there was a 100% chance we'd counter in this circumstance, nobody in our shoes would sit back while a top 5 intervenes for another top 5, with zero formal ties in a war that shouldn't really have anything to do with either of us. Meanwhile, coming at Wayward without a CB ourselves conveniently before the NAP ends? There are other spheres in this game who I can't imagine would be fans of a display like that. We very well could've had our own Guns & Roses. This is assuming we didn't have definitive evidence of coalition building (like we do now, thanks for the self-leaks homies), but even then there exists justification for the effort (you'll notice that I'm not blaming you guys for coalition building in the slightest, I would in your shoes to protect my interests). Finally, coalition building ain't easy from what I hear - there are a lot of variables to go sour before and while it triggers. Making a move like that on our end could be premature and result in massive and long-term FA backlash. Ultimately, you are right, we will never know if sitting out would've been better. 😬

Oh I don't disagree. We had a very small window for action (TKR was losing military fast so the window for an impactful intervention was shrinking) and we took the action that, in that moment, appeared the best for our interests.

We knew with 98% certainty y'all would join the fray, you're right. Where we differ mainly, I guess, is that an Oreo hit on Wayward would be bad for your PR? No offense, but when has either Rose or Eclipse cared for their image? And even if you did, who would make you pay for it? It would be very easy for you to force another NAP as you did with GGO, and then you've only got a weakened TKRsphere and Midgard as potential adversaries? Seems like any "backlash" would be worth that positioning especially when no one can do anything about it.

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1 hour ago, Hodor said:

Oh I don't disagree. We had a very small window for action (TKR was losing military fast so the window for an impactful intervention was shrinking) and we took the action that, in that moment, appeared the best for our interests.

We knew with 98% certainty y'all would join the fray, you're right. Where we differ mainly, I guess, is that an Oreo hit on Wayward would be bad for your PR? No offense, but when has either Rose or Eclipse cared for their image? And even if you did, who would make you pay for it? It would be very easy for you to force another NAP as you did with GGO, and then you've only got a weakened TKRsphere and Midgard as potential adversaries? Seems like any "backlash" would be worth that positioning especially when no one can do anything about it.

Eclipse never signed the no NAP bs for a reason. We never intended on being sheeps acting like no NAPs are a good thing for the game just to gain some pr points so to respond mainly for eclipses side, we do care about our image. As for the reason of us interfering was to not dogpile and get an ez win against Cata, but mainly because we had concerns about cata coming out of their way to defend TKR sphere despite having no direct treaties.

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3 hours ago, Vein said:

Eclipse never signed the no NAP bs for a reason. We never intended on being sheeps acting like no NAPs are a good thing for the game just to gain some pr points so to respond mainly for eclipses side, we do care about our image. As for the reason of us interfering was to not dogpile and get an ez win against Cata, but mainly because we had concerns about cata coming out of their way to defend TKR sphere despite having no direct treaties.

Honestly, pleasantly surprised by the response. I hope that the NAP signing wasn't primarily a PR move since I, personally, am in favor of the terms, but can't speak for the people that actually signed it. And, in a weird turn, I understand why you all entered. This war discussion has been weirdly candid. There's something freeing about being rolled, I suppose.

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14 minutes ago, Hodor said:

Honestly, pleasantly surprised by the response. I hope that the NAP signing wasn't primarily a PR move since I, personally, am in favor of the terms, but can't speak for the people that actually signed it. And, in a weird turn, I understand why you all entered. This war discussion has been weirdly candid. There's something freeing about being rolled, I suppose.

The truth will set you FREEEEEEE!!!!!   I tried this a few wars ago and got killed for it. Nice to see you all jumping on the bandwagon, better late than never.

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34 minutes ago, Viselli said:

I left cataclysm because I knew t$ would be a bad ally. Had t$ in my dms telling me they had changed. lol

T$ being a bad and unreliable ally?!? Since when???

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Blame Dan Schneider~

393607803_Screenshot-20190414-060815-Discord(2).jpg.7116150a8eb6a7355bc37f3f65604764.jpg

 

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23 hours ago, Viselli said:

I left cataclysm because I knew t$ would be a bad ally. Had t$ in my dms telling me they had changed. lol

You joined Paradise- also allied to t$

Although I agree with you in hindsight, the irony is you sort of never left lol.

Edited by His Holy Decagon
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52 minutes ago, His Holy Decagon said:

You joined Paradise- also allied to t$

Although I agree with you in hindsight, the irony is you sort of never left lol.

He mentioned it in Paradise discord, but stayed and gave us a chance. :D 

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Only going to say that it’s hilarious you took this wildly incorrect and infactual view to the forums lol. A member (now former) of CATA for a whopping week and he knows the ins and outs at the top level, haha.

 

And it is true. I don’t rebuild nations that pay 5/5

Edited by His Holy Decagon
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I don’t really follow FA anymore so correct me if I’m wrong.

Cata’s plan was to No CB help TKR in order to get a back room agreement to fight Ouro with TKR after Midgard so they already had troops/burned infra?

At the same time pray that Wayward didn’t get countered by another bloc (which would happen) since we would’ve literally no CBed to help TKR.

All to get a favor to try to hit 1 of 2(?) blocs not in the war right after (who would probably join the war before we would even be ready to take them on top of Midgard.)

This just seems to me like a stupid MA move and FA move (Setting the t$ and tkr sekret treaty bs again)

And rn T$ is being blamed for not taking offensive action? Even though an alliance should be a partnership and it seemed that T$ didn’t want to while Cata did, surely T$ isn’t expected to be forced into a no CB war when Cata was already told no to the plan. (Defending Cata from eclipse is basically joining the No CB war/ Attempting to sanction it)

Surely a bloc isn’t made so that when there’s a discussion for war, one alliance makes a plan, gets told no, does it anyways, everyone else has to follow suit or be called a “bad ally”

EDIT:

The only way I could see this working would be Wayward No CB Midgard, Ouros attacks Wayward , and HOGG No CBS Ouros and it’s a moshpit where wayward arguably comes out looking bad since we started this No CB chain and it’s just a bad taste since it looks like 3 blocs secret treatied to roll the opposite blocs

Edited by KingGhost
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11 minutes ago, KingGhost said:

And rn T$ is being blamed for not taking offensive action? Even though an alliance should be a partnership and it seemed that T$ didn’t want to while Cata did, surely T$ isn’t expected to be forced into a no CB war when Cata was already told no to the plan. (Defending Cata from eclipse is basically joining the No CB war/ Attempting to sanction it)

I don’t believe anyone is blaming T$ for not acting in a similar fashion to CATA. We did so due to plans that were worked out at a bloc level, in Wayward, including CATA and T$. We acted in an attempt to preserve that plan in what we thought was the appropriate way. Also, there wasn’t some point where CATA was told no, or to stop, or really anything that I would’ve perceived as such

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42 minutes ago, His Holy Decagon said:

I don’t believe anyone is blaming T$ for not acting in a similar fashion to CATA. We did so due to plans that were worked out at a bloc level, in Wayward, including CATA and T$. We acted in an attempt to preserve that plan in what we thought was the appropriate way. Also, there wasn’t some point where CATA was told no, or to stop, or really anything that I would’ve perceived as such

If there was plans worked out and agreed upon on a bloc level T$ would have been in the blitz.

The fact that T$ isn’t in the blitz means that T$ obviously said no.

Cata is not stupid enough to initiate a blitz under the impression that T$ would join without confirming with T$. Cata initiated the blitz knowing T$ Wasn’t joining.

 

The very basis of planning a blitz contradicts your claim because why tf would you ever, in CATA’s shoes, not coordinate (if it was agreed upon) with T$ on targets especially in high tier, just not how bloc warfare planning works.

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14 hours ago, Nergia said:

T$ is right, Cataclysm hit without any preparation. They legitimately do not care about their allies OR their members. We sent 5 goddamn members, and we suddenly got 100-200 wars because the high gov does not care about us members. I lost 200 mill on this goddamn alliance, AND to top it off, WE DO NOT GET REBUILD AS 5/5. They took our bank money from disbanding an alliance because of "bad government, " meaning they took billions of free dollars from OUR MEMBERS.

They could've waited 1-2 days, then we would've easily swept the floor against Eclipse. But NO, Cataclysm attacked first, then called it, "Defending our allies" without any notification, 0 militarization, and we have one of the WORSE war plans ever. I won't reveal any war plans, but I'll say that CATACLYSM DEFENDED TKR BECAUSE TKR DEFENDED THEM AGAINST ECLIPSE, there was no treaty, nothing like that. To say that T$ had an obligation to defend Cataclysm, well when you ruined every member, every war plan, every alliance for some random war, AND BTW WE PLANNED TO ATTACK ECLIPSE because of some incriminating evidence against them. (or so they say), but btw T$ is obligated to protect us since we wanted a war.

If y'all want proof, go look at my AAleave history, and go look at cataclysm chat in ECON, (I hope they don't delete that crap).

So when we hear, "T$ is supposed to protect Cataclysm", did we also account for that "Cataclysm wanted to attack Eclipse"? That same alliance disbanded... everybody was basically forced to join Cataclysm. There was barely any time to leave the alliance and find another one.

There are 50+ more reasons why I support T$ on this issue, but I don't believe that Eclipse just coincidentally attacked us either.

Decagon, keep saying that T$ betrayed y'all because y'all don't really care about them or anybody except your cycle members. Nobody wants to lose 200m on your bs war as I did, then get kicked for complaining about it as I did. Btw, I don't get war rebuilds for helping you guys win.

(None of this is sensitive information since they didn't classify it. :))

Keep the copium...

Naterian

 

EDIT: TL;DR

We disbanded a connected alliance, took people's money, justified it, then for one week, we planned to attack Eclipse, TKR got attacked instead because it was leaked, (they accused T$ of leaking their "WAR PLANS"), then we defend TKR suddenly out of nowhere by sending 5 players, btw in that war plan, only three alliances knew, TKR, T$, and Cata. T$ was basically forced to join. We then complain that all this is T$'s fault for not joining our wars. Now we're losing.

I'm just simplifying what Cata leader said in their discord, (this isn't leaked information since it wasn't classified, nor does it impede anyone's war or trade secret. I'm just saying who's at fault again?). We're giving a totally different story in this forum. Whether or not you guys trust me, go read the discord logs. I'll even give my war results. I hope Eclipse wins.

Screenshot 2022-11-16 222134.png

If you want, you can join my alliance and I can convince gov to put you on 100/100 and not pay for your rebuild either. And you won't have access to any channels outside our public one's.

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image.png.840e79f3eeba9d53152a1961d4aacd4f.png

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24 minutes ago, KingGhost said:

If there was plans worked out and agreed upon on a bloc level T$ would have been in the blitz.

The fact that T$ isn’t in the blitz means that T$ obviously said no.

Cata is not stupid enough to initiate a blitz under the impression that T$ would join without confirming with T$. Cata initiated the blitz knowing T$ Wasn’t joining.

 

The very basis of planning a blitz contradicts your claim because why tf would you ever, in CATA’s shoes, not coordinate (if it was agreed upon) with T$ on targets especially in high tier, just not how bloc warfare planning works.

Not sure what you would like me to say unless it’s the answer you want to hear, so I’m just going to say that you said “I don’t really follow…correct me if I’m wrong.”

The picture isn’t as small as it may seem, and I think individual points are being dissected without regard to the overall events which makes it not look like a story, but rather one specific sentence and how logic is applied solely to that one thing.

The surrounding context of anything explains the singular event much better when you have to factor in FA, opinions, etc

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19 hours ago, Nergia said:

- Snip -

Cata may be my enemy in this war, but I'm like 95% sure Cata gov would not have told you to declare 5 offensive wars after being defensively slotted. So I'd say that damage is probably more on you.

Jacob Knox

Federation of Knox

Advisor, Aurora

Former Head of Military Affairs, Aurora

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On 11/17/2022 at 6:12 PM, Nokia Rokia said:

This is a development and reminds me I should avoid the forums 

The forums will set you free friend!

Way better than RON, VGM, or DNN!

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In paradisum deducant te Angeli; in tuo adventu suscipiant te martyres, et perducant te in civitatem sanctam Ierusalem.
Chorus angelorum te suscipiat, et cüm Lazaro quondam paupere æternam habeas requiem.

 

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