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9 hours ago, Keegoz said:

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I suppose if you're going to lie, might as well show it.

so you just showed the world you were plotting against Oreos. You keep throwing your cards because you are salty. You should let someone else run Cata since clearly you are not cut out for it.

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9 hours ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said:

People are angry that The Syndicate is not going join a war only to be defeated and take a massive amount of damage, so people can mock it. People are angry that The Syndicate chose the logical path

No one is angry, we just laugh at the alliance who defends his allies only if they are 100% sure to win every tier

Edited by Micchan
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21 minutes ago, Utter Nutter said:

so you just showed the world you were plotting against Oreos. You keep throwing your cards because you are salty. You should let someone else run Cata since clearly you are not cut out for it.

My man out here scoring own goals to dunk on Tarroc but only proves him right. 

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It was fine not defending Cata, if you knew about Eclipse planning to defend Midgard.
But you didnt mention it in DMs in any way. So you didnt knew about it. It was not part of defensive actions and Eclipse attack is clearly aggressive attack that is not forced by any treaties.
Or you knew about Eclipse being ready to go in but didnt say your ally about it?
My thoughts about this

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3 hours ago, Utter Nutter said:

so you just showed the world you were plotting against Oreos. You keep throwing your cards because you are salty. You should let someone else run Cata since clearly you are not cut out for it.

Why wouldn’t people have a contingency plan against Oreo?

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..

1 hour ago, vasya_nyasha said:

Eclipse attack is clearly aggressive attack that is not forced by any treaties.
Or you knew about Eclipse being ready to go in but didnt say your ally about it?

They leaked their own plots and machinations where they were planning to chain into attacking Eclipse and Oreo after they were done with Midgard.

Edited by Utter Nutter
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6 minutes ago, Utter Nutter said:

..

They leaked their own plots and machinations where they were planning to chain into attacking Eclipse and Oreo after they were done with Midgard.

Stop feening for it Gaddam.

Edited by Kastor

"If we have no choice but to fight, than I'd rather fight for the good guys. I'd rather burn on the side of justice and morals, than greed and gluttony. Justice must be upheld and order must be given to a broken world. Rose must survive because without Rose than evil shall reign. Rose needs warriors, will you aid the empire?"

 

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On 11/13/2022 at 1:12 AM, Keegoz said:

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I suppose if you're going to lie, might as well show it.

anigif_enhanced-buzz-7859-1415834160-4.g

I love a man who brings his own smoking gun to the party. 🥵

On 11/13/2022 at 1:20 AM, Keegoz said:

Do you also want me to leak where you were helping us with CB ideas? Or that you also entertained ideas of joining as well.

The more the merrier, if you ask me!

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On 11/13/2022 at 8:59 AM, Hodor said:

TIL if bold and italicize a statement, you don't need to prove it's veracity.

I have the biggest e-penis in all of Orbis.

 

The rest of that statement is a lot of gibberish. The one take away from it is t$ substituted its obsession with Grumpy for an obsession with TKR. You know Cata didn't defend TKR because they luuvvvvvv them, they did it because it was the best option for survival in the face of an Oreo threat.

Honestly, Hodor, here's where I get quite confused. Discussing this on the assumption that Ouroboros had been gunning for Wayward (personally, Cata isn't even in my top 3 vendettas), how is this the best option for survival?

No matter which way this played out, joining this war was a mistake. Ouroboros would not simply sit by and let Cata join this war to bail out TKR. The outcome had to either be:
1) Cata gets countered by Eclipse or Rose, t$ does not join the war, Cata gets rolled.
2) Cata gets countered by Eclipse or Rose, t$ does join the war, t$ gets countered by whoever stayed in reserve and gets rolled, Cata gets rolled.
3) Mystery option three where this is somehow not a terrible idea and things just work out

If there's a route to outcome #3 that I'm missing, I'd love to hear it. Until then, I interpret it as between these two results, in which Cata gets rolled regardless for joining the war. Outcome #2 would've just had the bonus of dragging t$ down with you on this path to self-sabotage. Especially now that we seem to be going scorched earth on the coalition plans for January, it really seems like you guys flat-out played yourselves. 

Why not decide to let TKR & Friends eat a loss? They can handle it. Then Wayward likely remains intact and you all proceed with the grand plan to prevent the devil incarnate that is Ouroboros from swallowing Orbis, alongside its tail, in January. It was obvious that a coalition would be forming for the end of the NAP, that's not surprising in the slightest, it's shooting the coalition in both kneecaps that's keeping me puzzled.

Edited by Kurdanak
too many "just"s :v
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Just now, Kurdanak said:

Honestly, Hodor, here's where I get quite confused. Discussing this on the assumption that Ouroboros had been gunning for Wayward (personally, Cata isn't even in my top 3 vendettas), how is this the best option for survival?

No matter which way this played out, joining this war was a mistake. Ouroboros would not just sit by and let Cata join this war to bail out TKR. The outcome had to either be:
1) Cata gets countered by Eclipse or Rose, t$ does not join the war, Cata gets rolled.
2) Cata gets countered by Eclipse or Rose, t$ does join the war, t$ gets countered by whoever stayed in reserve and gets rolled, Cata gets rolled.
3) Mystery option three where this is somehow not a terrible idea and things just work out

If there's a route to outcome #3 that I'm missing, I'd love to hear it. Until then, I interpret it as between these two results, in which Cata gets rolled regardless for joining the war. Outcome #2 would've just had the bonus of dragging t$ down with you on this path to self-sabotage. Especially now that we seem to be going scorched earth on the coalition plans for January, it really just seems like you guys played yourselves. 

Why not just let TKR & Friends eat a loss? They can handle it. Then Wayward likely remains intact and you all proceed with the grand plan to prevent the devil incarnate that is Ouroboros from swallowing Orbis, alongside its tail, in January. It was obvious that a coalition would be forming for the end of the NAP, that's not surprising in the slightest, it's shooting the coalition in both kneecaps that's keeping me puzzled.

There was a 0% chance that Oreo wasn't going to hit Wayward before the NAP ended. So either way, Wayward was boned. Without TKR, Wayward stood 0% chance against Oreo.

My understanding of Cata's thought process: At least with this war, Cata could jump in alone (They never asked t$ to join) against Midgard - Midgard still has the numbers advantage in this scenario even with Cata jumping in - there was a very very slight chance that Oreo sits out. (Which was a better risk than waiting/praying that Oreo doesn't hit us around prior to the conclusion of the NAP)

Obviously we have seen that that wasn't the case, but as stated earlier: Either way, Wayward was toast.

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58 minutes ago, Kurdanak said:

 Ouroboros would not simply sit by and let Cata join this war to bail out TKR. 

 

 

Why?

What's your interest? 

I could predict your response being along the lines of 'game health' and multipolarity, but that would be too easy.  

Edited by Charles Bolivar
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That being said it doesn’t make sense that Keegoz would just randomly hit. This has got to all be a smokescreen to add Grumpy/Guardian and get revenge on Oruos sphere. tS probably didn’t know that, left, and Grumpy got cold feet and bailed on Cataclysm. Leaving Keegoz to look like the fool.

Yeah imma believe that that is what happened in backchannels. 

"If we have no choice but to fight, than I'd rather fight for the good guys. I'd rather burn on the side of justice and morals, than greed and gluttony. Justice must be upheld and order must be given to a broken world. Rose must survive because without Rose than evil shall reign. Rose needs warriors, will you aid the empire?"

 

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37 minutes ago, Hodor said:

Kev covered it generally but, as you said, Oreo knew a coalition would form against it, it's just a matter of who. They know likely whoever it is will try and get HOGG on board so you're looking at a January time table. Oreo is by far the biggest sphere and was able to force a nap on one bloc already so, it would be totally reasonable to think they'd want to remove at least one more piece from the board in the time before the NAP ends, maybe even forcing a NAP to be even more sure of their position. TKR being taken off the table by Midgard means Oreo could either ignore Wayward and face the possibility that we try and build a coalition, or just take us off the table as well so that no 2 parties are in a position to hit you all come January.

If Oreo wasn't thinking this, it's a little puzzling because it's clearly the right play to secure your bloc for the foreseeable future.

Entering this particular war was not anywhere near optimal, but it's the choice we were presented with and we'll never know if sitting out would've been better.

Why did you make it easy for them? It would have been far more entertaining to watch them scramble around and come up with justifications as credible as the CB that started this war.

I personally love the 'we are doing this for the health of the game' line. It's always curious how the health of the game is always linked to the immediate interests of the alliance stating as much. Oreo certainly can't use 'for multispheres' as a justification since they publicly admitted abandoning it as a notion during their last war (which I totally agree with since it is a delusional farce of an ideology). 

But yeah, now we are going to likely witness a series of self-righteous rebuttals in response to your post, when we could have instead witnessed some truly creative genius at work in justifying what their exact interests were in entering this war.

I'm sad 😐

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6 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

There was a 0% chance that Oreo wasn't going to hit Wayward before the NAP ended. So either way, Wayward was boned. Without TKR, Wayward stood 0% chance against Oreo.

My understanding of Cata's thought process: At least with this war, Cata could jump in alone (They never asked t$ to join) against Midgard - Midgard still has the numbers advantage in this scenario even with Cata jumping in - there was a very very slight chance that Oreo sits out. (Which was a better risk than waiting/praying that Oreo doesn't hit us around prior to the conclusion of the NAP)

Obviously we have seen that that wasn't the case, but as stated earlier: Either way, Wayward was toast.

What gives you the confidence to say that there was a 100% chance we'd hit you before the NAP ended, exactly? (a 100% chance on that, but a slim slim chance of Ouroboros not joining this war in some form...) That's a genuine question, because there's plenty of room for doubt on that, lmao - our split with t$ was cordial, why go for their head? Even with you and Keegoz thirsting around Orbis for our coalition-based defeat. I'm relatively sure our priorities have lied elsewhere this NAP, like rebuilding and recovering from our back-to-back wars. :P 

That aside, how do we get from TKR getting rolled to TKR not being available for the coalition in January? This war wouldn't have gone on for months. It's not easy to launch into an offensive soon after a loss, however I think TKR could've accomplished that still being alongside at least HOGG and Wayward.

5 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Why?

What's your interest? 

I could predict your response being along the lines of 'game health' and multipolarity, but that would be too easy.  

lol no, I'm not that deep. So in my eyes? Strategic/political interests, naturally - TKR is our rival and of course beef remains from the HW-Celestial war (as evident in t$ not being in interested in sacrificing themselves TKR, I'd say). Plus while it doesn't shatter (or, it wouldn't have shattered) the coalition that they were clearly building, it certainly weakens it.

(will try to loop back around to Hodor later here, although as mentioned by you my response to Kev might also apply)

Edited by Kurdanak
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@Kurdanak

So pre-emptive action aimed at weakening a coalition who presumably (well more than presumably given Keegoz's screenshots) might stand in opposition to Oreo's own strategic interests?

 

 

Edited by Charles Bolivar

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(promise I'm still working on it Hodor xoxo)

27 minutes ago, Charles Bolivar said:

So pre-emptive action aimed at weakening a coalition who presumably (well not really presumably given Keegoz's screenshots) might stand in opposition to Oreo's own strategic interests?

I mean, there's not much pre-emptive about this situation on our end imo. again, I'm just reading the room here, but there was no reason for intervention from Ouroboros until Cata made their move - we reacted to that pre-emptive action explicitly made to save their future coalition-mate from an unrelated rolling (so, perhaps I was wrong, I guess a pre-empt of a pre-empt?). Cata joining the war was inherently linked to Ouroboros, self-admittedly, so of course we get involved to some extent. It's silly that we are all involved in the first place (more on that later).

 

2 hours ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Why did you make it easy for them? It would have been far more entertaining to watch them scramble around and come up with justifications as credible as the CB that started this war.

I personally love the 'we are doing this for the health of the game' line. It's always curious how the health of the game is always linked to the immediate interests of the alliance stating as much. Oreo certainly can't use 'for multispheres' as a justification since they publicly admitted abandoning it as a notion during their last war (which I totally agree with since it is a delusional farce of an ideology). 

But yeah, now we are going to likely witness a series of self-righteous rebuttals in response to your post, when we could have instead witnessed some truly creative genius at work in justifying what their exact interests were in entering this war.

I'm sad 😐

I am incredibly self-righteous, but I'm not so interested in preaching philosophy these days. Dust off the soulless husk of abbas' nation for that. :P 

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3 hours ago, Hodor said:

Kev covered it generally but, as you said, Oreo knew a coalition would form against it, it's just a matter of who. They know likely whoever it is will try and get HOGG on board so you're looking at a January time table. Oreo is by far the biggest sphere and was able to force a nap on one bloc already so, it would be totally reasonable to think they'd want to remove at least one more piece from the board in the time before the NAP ends, maybe even forcing a NAP to be even more sure of their position. TKR being taken off the table by Midgard means Oreo could either ignore Wayward and face the possibility that we try and build a coalition, or just take us off the table as well so that no 2 parties are in a position to hit you all come January.

If Oreo wasn't thinking this, it's a little puzzling because it's clearly the right play to secure your bloc for the foreseeable future.

Entering this particular war was not anywhere near optimal, but it's the choice we were presented with and we'll never know if sitting out would've been better.

I still see way more options available with the alternative of not intervening against Midgard with nada CB. Essentially, the opposite of what Kev thinks - I find there was a 100% chance we'd counter in this circumstance, nobody in our shoes would sit back while a top 5 intervenes for another top 5, with zero formal ties in a war that shouldn't really have anything to do with either of us. Meanwhile, coming at Wayward without a CB ourselves conveniently before the NAP ends? There are other spheres in this game who I can't imagine would be fans of a display like that. We very well could've had our own Guns & Roses. This is assuming we didn't have definitive evidence of coalition building (like we do now, thanks for the self-leaks homies), but even then there exists justification for the effort (you'll notice that I'm not blaming you guys for coalition building in the slightest, I would in your shoes to protect my interests). Finally, coalition building ain't easy from what I hear - there are a lot of variables to go sour before and while it triggers. Making a move like that on our end could be premature and result in massive and long-term FA backlash. Ultimately, you are right, we will never know if sitting out would've been better. 😬

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