Malichy Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I'm not usually one to defend t$ (mostly because they don't need it anyway) but since when is it required that you defend against what are counters to an aggressive action? Was there a mA attached instead of an oA? Does not compute. 2 5 Quote MofFA United Purple Nations Former Grosskomtur, FA Minister and Spitler (IA) -Teutonic Order. Former Reclusiarch (IA) - UPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Malichy said: I'm not usually one to defend t$ (mostly because they don't need it anyway) but since when is it required that you defend against what are counters to an aggressive action? Was there a mA attached instead of an oA? Does not compute. It's not a counter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayor Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hodor said: PSA - if you enter into a treaty with t$ and are hit by another alliance, they won't defend you. Note: Obviously, if Eclipse had been tied to any parties hit, we'd not hold t$ to anything. That is unfortunate, my own fault for actually believing the Syndicate actually cared about their allies. However I should have known since they recently have before just abandoned their allies mid-war and deleted their military, can't forget about that. Most likely even in a war now lets be real here, they would delete their military and whine about ROI or something. No one deserves that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thalmor Posted November 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 13, 2022 Redemption arc over. 1 8 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah 'the Fox' Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Malichy said: I'm not usually one to defend t$ (mostly because they don't need it anyway) but since when is it required that you defend against what are counters to an aggressive action? Was there a mA attached instead of an oA? Does not compute. So Eclipse secret treaty with Midguard confirmed? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayor Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Malichy said: I'm not usually one to defend t$ (mostly because they don't need it anyway) but since when is it required that you defend against what are counters to an aggressive action? Was there a mA attached instead of an oA? Does not compute. So you are allies to Rose and Eclipse then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malichy Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Hodor said: It's not a counter. Ok. That's your view. And if that were true then yes, they'd have an obligation. There seems to be a very different perspective by a lot of people though. 1 2 Quote MofFA United Purple Nations Former Grosskomtur, FA Minister and Spitler (IA) -Teutonic Order. Former Reclusiarch (IA) - UPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malichy Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Uriah 'the Fox' said: So Eclipse secret treaty with Midguard confirmed? Just now, Mayor said: So you are allies to Rose and Eclipse then? Not sure how you get there from what I said but whatever. 2 Quote MofFA United Purple Nations Former Grosskomtur, FA Minister and Spitler (IA) -Teutonic Order. Former Reclusiarch (IA) - UPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Leopold von Habsburg Posted November 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Hodor said: PSA - if you enter into a treaty with t$ and are hit by another alliance, they won't defend you. Note: Obviously, if Eclipse had been tied to any parties hit, we'd not hold t$ to anything. Well that does lead to an interesting take on the situation with Cata joining the war for fun and what not. I do like the little added hypothetical out which would have been acceptable only until a time when it was a reality. This is one of those situations where you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Cata is a sovereign entity and free to do as they wish on their own time. We could e-lawyer this for eons but I reckon most of the people vocally upset in this thread are happy with the decision they stumbled on. 'Tis a shame it didn't work out but that just shows you what strong wills were present in this sphere and that is never something to be ashamed of. Godspeed Paradise and Catacalysm 3 1 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Malichy said: Ok. That's your view. And if that were true then yes, they'd have an obligation. There seems to be a very different perspective by a lot of people though. Sure, if Eclipse has a treaty with Midgard and t$ knows about it, but we don't, we have much bigger issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadn Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Malichy said: Ok. That's your view. And if that were true then yes, they'd have an obligation. There seems to be a very different perspective by a lot of people though. Did Eclipse have a treaty with Mid? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayor Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Leopold von Habsburg said: Well that does lead to an interesting take on the situation with Cata joining the war for fun and what not. I do like the little added hypothetical out which would have been acceptable only until a time when it was a reality. This is one of those situations where you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Cata is a sovereign entity and free to do as they wish on their own time. We could e-lawyer this for eons but I reckon most of the people vocally upset in this thread are happy with the decision they stumbled on. 'Tis a shame it didn't work out but that just shows you what strong wills were present in this sphere and that is never something to be ashamed of. Godspeed Paradise and Catacalysm I'm not going to lie Leo, I was pumped to work with tS, not changing that I am very disappointed but take care friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Malichy said: Ok. That's your view. And if that were true then yes, they'd have an obligation. There seems to be a very different perspective by a lot of people though. Literally look in-game dude... Eclipse isn't tied to anyone Cataclysm hit. It's not a counter, it may be a secret treaty at best. A no-CB hit on Cata at worst. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayor Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Malichy said: Not sure how you get there from what I said but whatever. We are at this moment, defensive allies of Syndicate incl. Cata, and they got hit by Eclipse. Maybe buy some more processing power if more does not compute for you. 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hodor Posted November 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Leopold von Habsburg said: Well that does lead to an interesting take on the situation with Cata joining the war for fun and what not. I do like the little added hypothetical out which would have been acceptable only until a time when it was a reality. This is one of those situations where you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Cata is a sovereign entity and free to do as they wish on their own time. We could e-lawyer this for eons but I reckon most of the people vocally upset in this thread are happy with the decision they stumbled on. 'Tis a shame it didn't work out but that just shows you what strong wills were present in this sphere and that is never something to be ashamed of. Godspeed Paradise and Catacalysm It's pretty cut and dry though. There isn't much to e-lawyer. Eclipse hit Cata aggressively and not due to the activation of a defensive treaty. Whether Eclipse did it as a reaction to Cata hitting Midgard or some other reason, MDPs are not CB dependent. They cover this exact situation and are generally blind to the reason for war. Just now, Mayor said: I'm not going to lie Leo, I was pumped to work with tS, not changing that I am very disappointed but take care friend. I was too. I was actively pushing for it from the start of my time at Paradise and boy oh boy did I !@#$ up. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malichy Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 So, let me get this straight. You have to have a treaty with someone to enter a war in defense of someone? Interesting take. As I've understood it for the last 8 1/2 years, you can just do what you want. No connections. No CBs. There are no rules regarding this. There could be FA recriminations for doing so but that's it. And maybe someone cutting a treaty might be one of those recriminations. So arguing that it wasn't a counter because there was no treaty holds no water. I'd don't think Eclipse just suddenly attacked Cata but they certainly weren't connected to Midgard. Just as Cata supposedly wasn't connected to Withheld. AAs are gonna do what they're gonna do and isn't that what everyone has been !@#$ing about? Doing things? Here it is! Regardless, everyone enjoy your wars. It's a game. 7 Quote MofFA United Purple Nations Former Grosskomtur, FA Minister and Spitler (IA) -Teutonic Order. Former Reclusiarch (IA) - UPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Stewart Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Marika said: Literally look in-game dude... Eclipse isn't tied to anyone Cataclysm hit. It's not a counter, it may be a secret treaty at best. A no-CB hit on Cata at worst. As opposed to what cataclysm did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hodor Posted November 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Malichy said: So, let me get this straight. You have to have a treaty with someone to enter a war in defense of someone? Interesting take. As I've understood it for the last 8 1/2 years, you can just do what you want. No connections. No CBs. There are no rules regarding this. There could be FA recriminations for doing so but that's it. And maybe someone cutting a treaty might be one of those recriminations. So arguing that it wasn't a counter because there was no treaty holds no water. I'd don't think Eclipse just suddenly attacked Cata but they certainly weren't connected to Midgard. Just as Cata supposedly wasn't connected to Withheld. AAs are gonna do what they're gonna do and isn't that what everyone has been !@#$ing about? Doing things? Here it is! Regardless, everyone enjoy your wars. It's a game. You are absolutely right that alliances may act in a manner that they see fit. t$ isn't going to be deleted from the game for this move. They may become a pariah or they may suffer very little due to now being seen positively by the two largest spheres in the game (that are currently working together). However, we do have norms and M-level treaties have always been CB blind. You don't need a treaty to enter a war in defense of anyone, but if you do so, you risk activating that alliance's M-level treaties. If M-level treaties are optional, they shouldn't exist. Just now, Patrick Stewart said: As opposed to what cataclysm did? What Cata did and what Eclipse did are exactly the same. That's not the argument. Edited November 13, 2022 by Hodor 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ducc Zucc Posted November 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, Patrick Stewart said: As opposed to what cataclysm did? t$ is the one bullshitting here not Eclipse. You don't have to shill, it's alright 1 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bolivar Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, Leopold von Habsburg said: Cata is a sovereign entity and free to do as they wish on their own time. We could e-lawyer this for eons but I reckon most of the people vocally upset in this thread are happy with the decision they stumbled on. I remember making a very similar point about alliance sovereignty overriding treaty obligations eons ago. It didn't go well for me. On this occasion, however, I'm oddly gladdened to see history repeat whilst disagreeing with the specific action taken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utter Nutter Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 tS did the sensible thing when Cataclysm chose to defend their secret bloc with TKR. Well done Wana! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevanovia Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 15 minutes ago, Utter Nutter said: tS did the sensible thing when Cataclysm chose to defend their secret bloc with TKR. Well done Wana! Secret bloc with TKR? lol This is going to age incredibly well as more info comes out in regards to Oreo/Mid/etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majima Goro Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Epi's bloc is getting a new member I see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Malichy said: Ok. That's your view. And if that were true then yes, they'd have an obligation. There seems to be a very different perspective by a lot of people though. Seriously, @Hodor is right, Eclipse's attack on Cataclysm isn't a counter. It's a outright declaration of war. Eclipse has no ties to Midgard. On the other hand, Cataclysm have no ties to OOsphere either. So really @Keegoz and Cataclysm's decision to join in the fight is what sparked this stupidity. In either case, Syndicate should defend Cataclysm, at least against Eclipse for their aggression during the 72hr window. EDIT: This is on the surface of treaty triggering. Obviously there's something behind the scenes going on. Edited November 13, 2022 by Buorhann 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegoz Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I'm not mad, just disappointed. 1 Quote [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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