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I'm not usually one to defend t$ (mostly because they don't need it anyway) but since when is it required that you defend against what are counters to an aggressive action? Was there a mA attached instead of an oA? Does not compute.

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MofFA United Purple Nations

Former Grosskomtur, FA Minister and Spitler (IA) -Teutonic Order. Former Reclusiarch (IA) - UPN.

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Just now, Malichy said:

I'm not usually one to defend t$ (mostly because they don't need it anyway) but since when is it required that you defend against what are counters to an aggressive action? Was there a mA attached instead of an oA? Does not compute.

It's not a counter.

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2 minutes ago, Hodor said:

 

 

 


PSA - if you enter into a treaty with t$ and are hit by another alliance, they won't defend you.

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Note: Obviously, if Eclipse had been tied to any parties hit, we'd not hold t$ to anything.

That is unfortunate, my own fault for actually believing the Syndicate actually cared about their allies. However I should have known since they recently have before just abandoned their allies mid-war and deleted their military, can't forget about that. Most likely even in a war now lets be real here, they would delete their military and whine about ROI or something. No one deserves that.

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Just now, Malichy said:

I'm not usually one to defend t$ (mostly because they don't need it anyway) but since when is it required that you defend against what are counters to an aggressive action? Was there a mA attached instead of an oA? Does not compute.

So Eclipse secret treaty with Midguard confirmed?

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1 minute ago, Malichy said:

I'm not usually one to defend t$ (mostly because they don't need it anyway) but since when is it required that you defend against what are counters to an aggressive action? Was there a mA attached instead of an oA? Does not compute.

So you are allies to Rose and Eclipse then?

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Just now, Hodor said:

It's not a counter.

Ok. That's your view.

And if that were true then yes, they'd have an obligation. There seems to be a very different perspective by a lot of people though.

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MofFA United Purple Nations

Former Grosskomtur, FA Minister and Spitler (IA) -Teutonic Order. Former Reclusiarch (IA) - UPN.

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Just now, Uriah 'the Fox' said:

So Eclipse secret treaty with Midguard confirmed?

 

Just now, Mayor said:

So you are allies to Rose and Eclipse then?

Not sure how you get there from what I said but whatever.

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MofFA United Purple Nations

Former Grosskomtur, FA Minister and Spitler (IA) -Teutonic Order. Former Reclusiarch (IA) - UPN.

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Just now, Malichy said:

Ok. That's your view.

And if that were true then yes, they'd have an obligation. There seems to be a very different perspective by a lot of people though.

Sure, if Eclipse has a treaty with Midgard and t$ knows about it, but we don't, we have much bigger issues.

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Just now, Malichy said:

Ok. That's your view.

And if that were true then yes, they'd have an obligation. There seems to be a very different perspective by a lot of people though.

Did Eclipse have a treaty with Mid?

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Just now, Leopold von Habsburg said:

Well that does lead to an interesting take on the situation with Cata joining the war for fun and what not. I do like the little added hypothetical out which would have been acceptable only until a time when it was a reality. This is one of those situations where you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Cata is a sovereign entity and free to do as they wish on their own time. We could e-lawyer this for eons but I reckon most of the people vocally upset in this thread are happy with the decision they stumbled on.

'Tis a shame it didn't work out but that just shows you what strong wills were present in this sphere and that is never something to be ashamed of.
Godspeed Paradise and Catacalysm

I'm not going to lie Leo, I was pumped to work with tS, not changing that I am very disappointed but take care friend.

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Just now, Malichy said:

Ok. That's your view.

And if that were true then yes, they'd have an obligation. There seems to be a very different perspective by a lot of people though.

Literally look in-game dude... Eclipse isn't tied to anyone Cataclysm hit. It's not a counter, it may be a secret treaty at best. A no-CB hit on Cata at worst.

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Just now, Malichy said:

 

Not sure how you get there from what I said but whatever.

We are at this moment, defensive allies of Syndicate incl. Cata, and they got hit by Eclipse. Maybe buy some more processing power if more does not compute for you.

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So, let me get this straight. You have to have a treaty with someone to enter a war in defense of someone? Interesting take.

As I've understood it for the last 8 1/2 years, you can just do what you want. No connections. No CBs. There are no rules regarding this. There could be FA recriminations for doing so but that's it. And maybe someone cutting a treaty might be one of those recriminations.

So arguing that it wasn't a counter because there was no treaty holds no water. I'd don't think Eclipse just suddenly attacked Cata but they certainly weren't connected to Midgard. Just as Cata supposedly wasn't connected to Withheld. AAs are gonna do what they're gonna do and isn't that what everyone has been !@#$ing about? Doing things? Here it is!

Regardless, everyone enjoy your wars. It's a game.

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MofFA United Purple Nations

Former Grosskomtur, FA Minister and Spitler (IA) -Teutonic Order. Former Reclusiarch (IA) - UPN.

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17 minutes ago, Leopold von Habsburg said:

 Cata is a sovereign entity and free to do as they wish on their own time. We could e-lawyer this for eons but I reckon most of the people vocally upset in this thread are happy with the decision they stumbled on.

 

I remember making a very similar point about alliance sovereignty overriding treaty obligations eons ago.

It didn't go well for me. On this occasion, however, I'm oddly gladdened to see history repeat whilst disagreeing with the specific action taken.

 

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15 minutes ago, Utter Nutter said:

tS did the sensible thing when Cataclysm chose to defend their secret bloc with TKR. Well done Wana!

Secret bloc with TKR? lol

This is going to age incredibly well as more info comes out in regards to Oreo/Mid/etc.

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1 hour ago, Malichy said:

Ok. That's your view.

And if that were true then yes, they'd have an obligation. There seems to be a very different perspective by a lot of people though.

Seriously, @Hodor is right, Eclipse's attack on Cataclysm isn't a counter.  It's a outright declaration of war.

Eclipse has no ties to Midgard.  On the other hand, Cataclysm have no ties to OOsphere either.  So really @Keegoz and Cataclysm's decision to join in the fight is what sparked this stupidity.

In either case, Syndicate should defend Cataclysm, at least against Eclipse for their aggression during the 72hr window.

EDIT:

This is on the surface of treaty triggering.  Obviously there's something behind the scenes going on.

Edited by Buorhann
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