BrythonLexi Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Hey all, In this last week, some newbies in my alliance had a very peculiar war happen. The opponent had purchased several cities and used them to create a larger than usual re-mil, then delete those new cities less than ten minutes later. In doing so, this allowed our opponent to have free Immense Triumphs and blockade our newbies. As one can imagine, this seems like an unintended exploit of city buying and reinforce mechanics to force a win in a war that would otherwise be trivial in the other direction. It is also largely unfair. This practice also prevents nations with higher scores from countering the quick-reinforcement that our opponent had, as the cities are deleted too quickly for a response without 24 hour surveillance. While this is economically inefficient, it basically makes a blockade impossible to enforce, especially combined with purchasing credits for buying the new cities. My suggestion is this: When a city is bought, you cannot sell that city for 120 turns (10 days), similar to the C10+ purchase timer. By adding such a deletion timer, this would prevent such quick-reinforcement exploits from happening ever again, and even the playing field when it comes to war in raiding tiers. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenStar10 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, BrythonLexi said: Hey all, In this last week, some newbies in my alliance had a very peculiar war happen. The opponent had purchased several cities and used them to create a larger than usual re-mil, then delete those new cities less than ten minutes later. In doing so, this allowed our opponent to have free Immense Triumphs and blockade our newbies. As one can imagine, this seems like an unintended exploit of city buying and reinforce mechanics to force a win in a war that would otherwise be trivial in the other direction. It is also largely unfair. This practice also prevents nations with higher scores from countering the quick-reinforcement that our opponent had, as the cities are deleted too quickly for a response without 24 hour surveillance. While this is economically inefficient, it basically makes a blockade impossible to enforce, especially combined with purchasing credits for buying the new cities. My suggestion is this: When a city is bought, you cannot sell that city for 120 turns (10 days), similar to the C10+ purchase timer. By adding such a deletion timer, this would prevent such quick-reinforcement exploits from happening ever again, and even the playing field when it comes to war in raiding tiers. They are just blowing through money at that rate. That means your noob did alot more damage to that dude then the dude to your newbie. I don't really see a need for it, if people want to blow money like that, let them. Quote Coal Duke (Imperator Emeritus) of The Coal Mines Diety Emeritus of The Immortals, Patres Conscripti (President Emeritus) of the Independent Republic of Orange Nations, Lieutenant Emeritus of Black Skies, Imperator Emeritus of the Valyrian Freehold, Imperator Emeritus of the Divine Phoenix, Prefect Emeritus of Carthago, Regent Emeritus of the New Polar Order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzek Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 23 minutes ago, JadenStar10 said: They are just blowing through money at that rate. That means your noob did alot more damage to that dude then the dude to your newbie. I don't really see a need for it, if people want to blow money like that, let them. Technically, if they had bought urban planning before selling down, then those lower cities are free. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenStar10 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Borg said: Technically, if they had bought urban planning before selling down, then those lower cities are free. Oh, thank you borg. Ok then yes I do agree with this. Use credits to reset the timer Quote Coal Duke (Imperator Emeritus) of The Coal Mines Diety Emeritus of The Immortals, Patres Conscripti (President Emeritus) of the Independent Republic of Orange Nations, Lieutenant Emeritus of Black Skies, Imperator Emeritus of the Valyrian Freehold, Imperator Emeritus of the Divine Phoenix, Prefect Emeritus of Carthago, Regent Emeritus of the New Polar Order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrythonLexi Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) 49 minutes ago, JadenStar10 said: They are just blowing through money at that rate. That means your noob did alot more damage to that dude then the dude to your newbie. I don't really see a need for it, if people want to blow money like that, let them. Right! Like, my milcom and I acknowledged that as the war was going on, but I still feel like someone shouldn't have an option like this since it still technically gets around reinforcement limits. 25 minutes ago, Borg said: Technically, if they had bought urban planning before selling down, then those lower cities are free. Huh, neat! I was sure that removing your 11th city would disable UP, but I suppose if that's not the case, this does make the exploit even more dangerous. However, the opponent didn't have that project. -- Additionally, on suggestion i'm going to link the wars in question where the opponent of my alliance's newbies had used this exploit. https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1404546 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1404893 https://politicsandwar.com/nation/war/timeline/war=1404772 The particular city building from Zombie Springfield was as follows: Quote 08/07 05:08 pm - Zombie Springfield destroyed their city city 5. 08/07 05:07 pm - Zombie Springfield destroyed their city city 6. 08/07 05:07 pm - Zombie Springfield destroyed their city city 7. 08/07 05:06 pm - Zombie Springfield destroyed their city city 8. 08/07 04:57 pm - founded a new city, city 8. 08/07 04:54 pm - founded a new city, city 7. 08/07 04:54 pm - founded a new city, city 6. 08/07 04:54 pm - founded a new city, city 5. 08/07 04:54 pm - founded a new city, city 4. Blegh, tried to fix whitespace problems, couldn't. Anyway, this was only a period of 14 minutes at best where my milcom could set up a counter. That'd be unlikely during a global, and definitely impossible in peace. That really doesn't seem fair, even if a monetary loss, as it's reinforcement that others would be ill-advised to pull off. Edited August 10, 2022 by BrythonLexi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramona Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I'm sorry, but that is way too funny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgiumFury Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I personally don't mind this at all; but the projects should indeed be dissabled when going under the required city count. Ill bring this up to village right now actually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgiumFury Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrythonLexi Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, BelgiumFury said: Awesome! Wonderful patch to prevent more egregious uses of this potential exploit. I accept if there won't be a minimum city delete time due to the economic suicide that it is for the person doing it, but at least this little oversight can be fixed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgiumFury Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 23 minutes ago, BrythonLexi said: Awesome! Wonderful patch to prevent more egregious uses of this potential exploit. I accept if there won't be a minimum city delete time due to the economic suicide that it is for the person doing it, but at least this little oversight can be fixed up. No problem; glad this issue was brought to our attention so it could be patched. And yeah i doubt a timer on selling cities will come, the economic suicide would not make it worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 So why not buy your guy up to 10-12 cities so he can crush the dude back? It sounds like to me, you arent willing to do what you need to do to help your members. Pay to win baby, toss in a few credits, and buy him up to 20 cities, think of the complete devastation he will do to that 4 city nation. 2 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrythonLexi Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share Posted August 10, 2022 12 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: So why not buy your guy up to 10-12 cities so he can crush the dude back? It sounds like to me, you arent willing to do what you need to do to help your members. Pay to win baby, toss in a few credits, and buy him up to 20 cities, think of the complete devastation he will do to that 4 city nation. We decided that it was not worth chasing them all the way up, though we did purchase a few cities. As i'm sure you're aware, we are a 100/100 alliance and secure our members' holdings, so they were not at any risk of losing much (let alone the $100m or so that the opponent spent). It is also about fairness in the game in general, and not just the specific situation that we were in. Had the opponent had Urban Planning, and the defending nation been an allianceless low-tier nation (or otherwise on their own for the war), they would not have stood a chance - which is very much unfair to the new nation, and may have even caused them to quit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzek Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 16 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: So why not buy your guy up to 10-12 cities so he can crush the dude back? It sounds like to me, you arent willing to do what you need to do to help your members. Pay to win baby, toss in a few credits, and buy him up to 20 cities, think of the complete devastation he will do to that 4 city nation. checking the linked war timelines: War Timeline | Politics & War (politicsandwar.com)War Timeline | Politics & War (politicsandwar.com) The first thing the nation did was blockade the rose member. Can't buy up if you don't have the funds. Do credits bypass blockades? (also, you need more than pure cash to buy up, you need manufactured resources for units & buildings) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrythonLexi Posted August 11, 2022 Author Share Posted August 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Borg said: checking the linked war timelines: War Timeline | Politics & War (politicsandwar.com)War Timeline | Politics & War (politicsandwar.com) The first thing the nation did was blockade the rose member. Can't buy up if you don't have the funds. Do credits bypass blockades? (also, you need more than pure cash to buy up, you need manufactured resources for units & buildings) Credits do bypass blockades, yeah. But that's still real life money not everybody has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 18 hours ago, BrythonLexi said: We decided that it was not worth chasing them all the way up, though we did purchase a few cities. As i'm sure you're aware, we are a 100/100 alliance and secure our members' holdings, so they were not at any risk of losing much (let alone the $100m or so that the opponent spent). It is also about fairness in the game in general, and not just the specific situation that we were in. Had the opponent had Urban Planning, and the defending nation been an allianceless low-tier nation (or otherwise on their own for the war), they would not have stood a chance - which is very much unfair to the new nation, and may have even caused them to quit. What? why would I know what your taxes are? If you put a gun to my head, I couldn't even tell you what bloc you are in. (oh i just looked it up, we just fought you guys! that's fun!) If it makes you feel better, I had a conversation in GGO a few days ago, asking if Dead Rabbits was some new micro block I had never heard of. After I was told who they where, this was my response, which would also go for you guys. End of the day tho, like the previous post, I am just amusing myself on the OWF, by making dumb posts. Please feel free to ignore me going forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzek Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 12 hours ago, BrythonLexi said: Credits do bypass blockades, yeah. But that's still real life money not everybody has. Yep. Also, as SRD put it "buy him up to 20 cities" isn't exactly feasible given that there's a city timer. 12 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: I've forgotten more than I ever knew. why would I know a alliance with communism in the name has taxes. oh look, the ants are speaking to me again, where's my hearing aid. brb, gonna spend 10x more time complaining about how much i dont know than it would take to click a link and see the alliance's treaty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 9 hours ago, Borg said: Yep. Also, as SRD put it "buy him up to 20 cities" isn't exactly feasible given that there's a city timer. brb, gonna spend 10x more time complaining about how much i dont know than it would take to click a link and see the alliance's treaty Why would I know that? I am an engineer by trade, not a historian, i haven't taken a history class in over 20 years. You would think the blatant exaggeration of 20 cities would be a hint that I was being facetious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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