Popular Post hidude45454 Posted July 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just a PSA to anyone who is considering buying it. In case anyone hasn't read yet, this is a new project that just released: Under current market prices, that's about 65m in total value, which doesn't sound too bad! However, to those who think they can ROI fairly easily off of this, you'd be dead wrong. Here's a spreadsheet @penpiko made and that I modified showing the tank, plane, and ship losses of about 5.5k people in alliances: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/105t-bJnslne5O_Ra7r2rBhe0MrU_ZEH9neXNfdsafm0/edit#gid=0 Since this only recovers steel and alum from victorious attacks, assuming 50% of all lost units are from victorious attacks, here are some fun facts: -There are currently 124 nations in the game TOTAL that if they'd bought the project at the very beginning of their nation creation, they'd make positive ROI on. -The average age of those 124 nations is 2322 days, or 6.4 years. The minimum age out of all of these is 420 (nice) days. -Between those 124 nations, the average age to ROI was 1831 days, or 5 years. The minimum age out of all of that belongs to Mr. 420 (AKA TheDoom) at 409 days. -Personally, if I'd bought this at the very beginning I'd have made a 28m ROI. Neat! So what is the purpose of this project, if not to ROI? I've been told it's to scrap together enough resources such that a nation can build some additional tanks/planes/ships at the time with whatever gets salvaged. Ignoring that this is a generally pitiful amount salvaged per day, this means this intended purpose only has relevancy when: -You've ran out of resources -You're blockaded (otherwise your alliance can just send you more) -You're not already at your max military buy per day -Building that small extra amount of units would make a significant impact in your performance in your wars Needless to say, that's not a situation I would ever end up in. If you want to ROI faster, even telecom sat would be a better option. 1 36 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ramona Posted July 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2022 PSA: The sky is blue 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dDARS Posted July 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2022 >add new project >project has terrible ROI >pixel huggers with 35 slots only buy it average pnw update 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 PSA you need to touch grass. 5 1 Quote Why are you reading this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartarus Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Obligatory still better than moon landing. 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Schmo Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 42 minutes ago, hidude45454 said: Just a PSA to anyone who is considering buying it. In case anyone hasn't read yet, this is a new project that just released: Under current market prices, that's about 65m in total value, which doesn't sound too bad! However, to those who think they can ROI fairly easily off of this, you'd be dead wrong. Here's a spreadsheet @penpiko made and that I modified showing the tank, plane, and ship losses of about 5.5k people in alliances: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/105t-bJnslne5O_Ra7r2rBhe0MrU_ZEH9neXNfdsafm0/edit#gid=0 Since this only recovers steel and alum from victorious attacks, assuming 50% of all lost units are from victorious attacks, here are some fun facts: -There are currently 124 nations in the game TOTAL that if they'd bought the project at the very beginning of their nation creation, they'd make positive ROI on. -The average age of those 124 nations is 2322 days, or 6.4 years. The minimum age out of all of these is 420 (nice) days. -Between those 124 nations, the average age to ROI was 1831 days, or 5 years. The minimum age out of all of that belongs to Mr. 420 (AKA TheDoom) at 409 days. -Personally, if I'd bought this at the very beginning I'd have made a 28m ROI. Neat! So what is the purpose of this project, if not to ROI? I've been told it's to scrap together enough resources such that a nation can build some additional tanks/planes/ships at the time with whatever gets salvaged. Ignoring that this is a generally pitiful amount salvaged per day, this means this intended purpose only has relevancy when: -You've ran out of resources -You're blockaded (otherwise your alliance can just send you more) -You're not already at your max military buy per day -Building that small extra amount of units would make a significant impact in your performance in your wars Needless to say, that's not a situation I would ever end up in. If you want to ROI faster, even telecom sat would be a better option. tbh victorious % may depend on which sphere you're in etc etc, and can be much higher. Personally, I'd say I 100% get 50%+ ratio. But yeah 5% of recovered and 65m cost is just not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename V Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 07/25 09:58 pm - Codename V built a new project: Military Salvage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potayto Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Sounds like a skill issue Quote i am literally a vegetable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 (edited) According to math, I'd have made 618,250 in profit back from it! Grumpy is in for it now, I'm hot in their heels! Edited July 26, 2022 by Zei-Sakura Alsainn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegoz Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Playing the long game is what it is called. Also, pretty certain some whales must be nearing the point where buying extra cities have years worth to roi on. So I guess they'll buy it? Quote [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 If you'd like I can just release only projects that have huge benefits that strain smaller players project slots? A few less powerful projects that maybe some whales buy that don't have a huge pay-off don't sound like a problem. Worst case there are a few projects not a lot of players buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dryad Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Prefontaine said: If you'd like I can just release only projects that have huge benefits that strain smaller players project slots? A few less powerful projects that maybe some whales buy that don't have a huge pay-off don't sound like a problem. Worst case there are a few projects not a lot of players buy. You could also recognize valid criticism and just raise the numbers. The concept of the project isn't even bad, but it's completely wasted when this thing doesn't pay off in less than 3 years even for warmongers who are the niche group most benefitting from it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzek Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Prefontaine said: If you'd like I can just release only projects that have huge benefits that strain smaller players project slots? A few less powerful projects that maybe some whales buy that don't have a huge pay-off don't sound like a problem. Worst case there are a few projects not a lot of players buy. Buff it and make it for defensive attacks lost, cause we don't really need to be buffing attackers. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Dryad said: You could also recognize valid criticism and just raise the numbers. The concept of the project isn't even bad, but it's completely wasted when this thing doesn't pay off in less than 3 years even for warmongers who are the niche group most benefitting from it. Not all things are ROI dependent, largely projects that impact war. As the OP states, there are some scenarios which this project is beneficial while fighting which is the point of the project. ROI is something not heavily considered when looking at cost designs for projects that impact areas of war. I would recognize valid criticism if ROI was valid criticism in this case -- it is not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KindaEpicMoah Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Broke: Buying military salvage Woke: Buying credits and redeeming them for resources 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penpiko Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Prefontaine said: Not all things are ROI dependent, largely projects that impact war. As the OP states, there are some scenarios which this project is beneficial while fighting which is the point of the project. ROI is something not heavily considered when looking at cost designs for projects that impact areas of war. I would recognize valid criticism if ROI was valid criticism in this case -- it is not. Right below where the OP states that there are some scenarios which this project is beneficial while fighting, he mentions that it's not a situation he would end up in, and in my opinion the majority of people who have at least a small grasp on fighting mechanics probably won't end up there either. The only reason to get this project therefore is the ROI, which is basically non-existent currently making it useless. I agree with you that for war projects, the likes of PB, IA, Spy Sat etc. ROI doesn't matter, that's because those projects actually give you an advantage while fighting which makes up for the lack of ROI. Here you get neither, there's no good war bonus when you get this project, and there's no ROI unless you're a warmonger, and even then it takes years on average. So I really can't see the point of getting it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayor Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Prefontaine said: Not all things are ROI dependent, largely projects that impact war. As the OP states, there are some scenarios which this project is beneficial while fighting which is the point of the project. ROI is something not heavily considered when looking at cost designs for projects that impact areas of war. I would recognize valid criticism if ROI was valid criticism in this case -- it is not. And here I was thinking that projects should be fun and entertaining, not dull and irrelevant. Glad to see that is the direction Alex wants the game to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 I stand with Pre and his awesome projects, you guys are just jealous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendell Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 20 hours ago, hidude45454 said: Needless to say, that's not a situation I would ever end up in. If you want to ROI faster, even telecom sat would be a better option. The game is not about giving up when you are outnumbered. Many players do this and massive alliance blocks that have it all, count on this mentality to intimidate people into falling in line. You listen 4-5 situations where it would be useful, then obviously the project is for those people and for competent people that can turn the opponents tiny disadvantage to a large ravine. I've done it plenty of times. Stop hiding behind the winners and play the game for real for a while. It's actually pretty challenging and fun. Also go touch some grass too... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptWelland Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Prefontaine said: If you'd like I can just release only projects that have huge benefits that strain smaller players project slots? A few less powerful projects that maybe some whales buy that don't have a huge pay-off don't sound like a problem. Worst case there are a few projects not a lot of players buy. Why yes, I would like to see projects that force players to make meaningful choices about how they want to play the game. It's almost like opportunity costs are something that can make gameplay more interesting. 128 players, assuming about 15k nations exist, is about .8% of the community. When you're making options that less than 1% of the playerbase has any reason to care about, and even then, would only take because 'meh, I have the slot open', yeah, I'd see that as an issue. Edited July 26, 2022 by CaptWelland 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 @hidude45454 - What numbers would make the most sense for this? Balance wise, that is. Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Me Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 On 7/25/2022 at 4:28 PM, rDaRealSpeedy said: >add new project >project has terrible ROI >pixel huggers with 35 slots only buy it average pnw update You forgot breaks totally unrelated things every time he adds things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avakael Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 this project is literally a form of pixel hugging disguised as military assistance 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namukara Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 22 hours ago, Prefontaine said: If you'd like I can just release only projects that have huge benefits that strain smaller players project slots? A few less powerful projects that maybe some whales buy that don't have a huge pay-off don't sound like a problem. Worst case there are a few projects not a lot of players buy. I see you out there, threatening good things. Projects are meant to be a trade off in early game, you can't have all of them so you pick the ones which benefit your nation the most. That's the point of them. It's why they're both expensive and limited. I didn't buy AUP because I couldn't afford it at the time; I'm still yet to build space program even though I need spy sat because I can't afford it. 'Straining project slots' is a nonsense, it's the same as 'straining nation bank balances' as a reason to make war damages temporary. People have a limited number of slots and should be expected to choose the projects that are important to them, which evens itself out as, shockingly enough, everybody with a similar city count who doesn't build stupid levels of infra is in the same position. We can argue about what projects should achieve all day, but I'd hope that one thing we can agree they should be is useful. This one isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefontaine Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 50 minutes ago, namukara said: I see you out there, threatening good things. Projects are meant to be a trade off in early game, you can't have all of them so you pick the ones which benefit your nation the most. That's the point of them. It's why they're both expensive and limited. I didn't buy AUP because I couldn't afford it at the time; I'm still yet to build space program even though I need spy sat because I can't afford it. 'Straining project slots' is a nonsense, it's the same as 'straining nation bank balances' as a reason to make war damages temporary. People have a limited number of slots and should be expected to choose the projects that are important to them, which evens itself out as, shockingly enough, everybody with a similar city count who doesn't build stupid levels of infra is in the same position. We can argue about what projects should achieve all day, but I'd hope that one thing we can agree they should be is useful. This one isn't. I get what you're saying, I do. As I see it, there should be different tiers of projects, effectively. This project is not a top tier project and that is okay. It's probably in the top 5 for weakest projects, and that's okay. Is this project going to be primarily bought by whales with spare project slots? Possibly, but the more of these lesser projects that exist, the higher the bar gets on how many slots you need to get all the projects. Are we going to clog up the C50+s? Probably not soon. But if this raises the bar from C38ss having all the projects to C40s, great. Eventually there will be enough lower tier and middle tier projects that the whales will start needing to be pickier for longer. Lastly, it's almost always easier to make something stronger than it is to make it weaker. People prefer to see buffs over nerfs, typically. In 6 months time, we may visit the idea of making improvements to this project. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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