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P&W Mount Rushmore


Velyni Vas
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Due to all the time we spend on Discord discussing old memories, influential characters, and individuals who changed the game I thought it would be fun to do this.

You have all heard of sports Mount Rushmore where you list the top four in your opinion on the sporting world, no doubt.

Who would you have on your P&W Mount Rushmore and why?

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For Influence & Game-Change?

Roquentin, Abbas, Partisan, Dalinar

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Minister of Love of Polaris
Patres Conscripti of the Independent Republic of Orange Nations, Imperator Emeritus of the Valyrian Freehold, Imperator Emeritus of the Divine Phoenix
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25 minutes ago, Kevanovia said:

If this list is supposed to be an attempt to be objective on IC 'greatness':

Abbas, Keegoz, Partisan, Prefontaine

It could be greatness, most influential in whatever reasons, people who changed dynamic, most important in the community - whatever your criteria is for the GOATs.

 

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Thalmor, Partisan, Shifty, and Roquentin.

Everyone knows who they are, their impact over many years in terms of the culture of orbis and impact in major conflicts, and their fame (or infamy) is worth memorializing imo.

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2 hours ago, BrythonLexi said:

Upstanding community members should go on such a memorial.
I think it goes without saying who the first one would be.
Ramona, Kurdanak, and Kyu as well - all upstanding, kind-hearted people that make this place better.

Thanks for making my monolithic ego literal. 😜

interesting question! I will ponder on it, though Kev's choices are spot-on if we're talking long-term IC influence.

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I tried to be objective AND give reasons:

Prefontaine - Like or hate him, he was a formative Guardian government member, leader of the original TEst, helped truly pave the path of paperlessness and all the "decentralizing" philosophies that sprouted from those discussions like our current system of spheres, played the villain in a time where the villain definitely wasn't the safe play, has had a loud voice on the development of the game, and ultimately is now running point on game development decisions as Alex's effective right hand. His political influence has waxed and waned but his impact on PnW has echoed the entire time I've been here.

Partisan - The number one political player in the game, IC the most influential across the longest time frame. Others have sometimes bested his coalitions, others have sometimes overridden his opinions, but no other players has so consistently been able to bend the metagame to their will as Partisan has. Personally, I think a lot of hype has helped him achieve his goals but I can't discredit his results. Overhyped or not, people are willing to follow along with him and he has proven able+willing to make decisions and proactive shape the game. He has been a driving force in a driving alliance since I joined the game years ago and continue to wield influence.

Roquentin - I'd argue only Roquentin qualifies as a "GOAT" even if he lives in infamy. His methodical grip on NPO and NPO's antagonistic FA approach for the duration of their time here really set the stage for a ton of IC politics. Ultimately ending in NPO's last time which directly resulted in a complete up-ending of the political status quo. I don't think it can be understated the importance of moving away from a treaty web and into a multi-polar world, people have been pushing for such a thing since Cybernations began in 2006. Roquentin, via NPOLT, also pushed a ton of the old generation into full retirement and made room for a whole new generation of players to really step up and make their own decisions, for better or worse. I'd argue he had a huge negative impact on the game, but he still was objectively one of the most influential players to play.

 

The fourth pick is pretty hard. There are a lot of names which I'd classify as contenders but no clear fourth person I'd say DEFINITELY stands out. I'll lay out my contenders:

 

Adrienne - TKR's leader during Knightfall and a cornerstone of the community. She helps run a ton of community events in retirement and is still a huge driving force within TKR years after stepping down. During her time as leader TKR grew to such power that a coalition of alliances teamed up to take them down. Generally speaking I think she's a behind-the-scenes operator for the past couple of years and therefore not an obvious standout for a most influential or GOAT player. Even though she is great.

Abbas - Arguably Partisan's rival in politics, especially in the early days of PnW. However I'd say he failed to really accomplish things on the scale that Partisan did. Rose built larger coalitions than t$ but successively crashed into a bulwark of better-coordinated alliances time and time again. This combined with his more backroom/string-puller style of FA - something I think Rose still struggles to shirk off to this day - as well as the fact he's really fallen out of PnW politics in the last couple of years make me hesitate to name him as a GOAT as well. Abbas's significance almost comes as much from his rivalry with Partisan/t$ as it does from his actual actions.

Kurdanak - Another community staple that also had his hands in politics at various times. Kurd has helped run several different community projects over the years and had a wide influence + presence in much of the game.

Kastor - Another very involved community player but questionable political influence. Depending on the time period he was either an active leader/high gov member or seen in a less flattering light. For that reason I wouldn't name his as a GOAT either.

Kev - another OG long-time community contributor, alliance creator, and really kickstarted radio shows for PnW which I feel are a huge piece of the game's IC community.

Thalmor - Speaking of Radio Shows / Community contributors, consistency is key. No one has been as consistently high quality as thalmor radio. Honorable mention for sure. I've also known Thalmor for literal years and he's always been a presence within the community as a whole.

Infinite Citadel/Dalinar - the founder of TKR, IC was heavily influential in the beginning stages of the game and a heavy influence within TKR. I'm not super familiar but I know he was pretty involved in politics along with Partisan and Abbas.

 

 

There are a lot of other honorable mentions but those are the "contenders" for spot number four that really come to mind.

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Kev - I used to have a massive lack of understanding for what Kev does, but over the last year or two, I’ve more and more realized that he’s a world shaper, beyond what most people are actually capable of pulling off. The amount of focus he’s able to pull and gather is pretty impressive and I’d go as far as to say that there isn’t anyone else who can match that style of FA.

Thalmor - Thalmoria was the first radio show that I actually made an earnest attempt at listening, and, it was obvious that when Thalmor hosts a show, that people will come and listen. He seemingly tried/tries to provide a relatively unbiased opening opinion on things, and I always respected that a lot. And also, who can forget the Subway Girl stories.

WANA - As a newer player (I joined Sep of 2020; just prior to Duck Hunt), I always had a shadowy and backhanded opinion of Syndicate, and with that said, WANA. I always viewed them as the shady, back alley, “we’re playing the game how we want, and we don’t care how it’s perceived” style of play, and I always was intrigued by it. WANA tanked a lot of community attention, and basically seemed to embrace it. I’d say from my side of the PnW world, he was almost personified as a villain of sorts, to which I can’t think of many others who fit that mold.

Keegoz - I believe Keegoz was my first shoulder to shoulder experience with real FA. Being part of decision making, brain storming, and seeing the inner workings of high level FA truly gives me a strong impression that Keegoz is on a higher level than most. I feel that I’ve learnt a lot just by exposure alone, and really can’t imagine that CATA, or Clock for that matter would be in anywhere near the same enjoyable position that we’re in now, if Keegoz wasn’t in the picture.

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as far as the general normie pixelhugger population is concerned id say pre, adrienne, roq or snake guy and a combination of fraggle/never gonna give you up(i forget his name) but that would be a boring ass mount rushmore.

as far as im concerned its bluebear horsecock jazz and blackbeard/dryad

Throw me to the wolves and I’ll return leading the pack.

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Mount Rushmore had presidents of different eras, so I think it might be fair to list the greatest of each era/generation.  The order of names is my personal viewpoint on who was the most influential (not about personal liking or agreement/disagreement of actions) of each era, but it's obviously a bit subjective.

Beginning - Silent Era Ranking:

Partisan, Prefontaine, Abbas

Explanation:

I know the least about this era because it was before my time, but I was in FA long enough to hear sufficient stories to have an idea.  Syndisphere was dominant for the majority of this era, defeating covenant, paragon, and paracovenant.  Partisan was the FA lead and public face of The Syndicate for much of this period, and was able to get strong alliances with TKR and BK.  

Prefontaine is a wildcard here since he led TEst, but the fame of the original alliances lasts to this day with like the 20th "reincarnation" of TEst being the current one we have today since its legacy is so strong.  Until Papers Please, TEst was at the pinnacle of the game and a threat to nearly everyone.  

Finally, Abbas was a main political rival of Partisan/T$ and their relationship was the basis of at least one of the major conflict axes in this era.  His ability to work in the shadows is renowned and still was actively considered in 2021 by the FA folk of Orbis when I was doing FA 5 years later...

 

Silent - KF Era Ranking:

Dalinar (Infinite Citadel), Roquentin, Ripper

Explanation: 

Yes, I'm TKR so you might say bias, but it's quite obvious to any outside observer that TKR dominated this era.  What was once Syndisphere evolved as Obsidian Order became the center of power.  The breakup of BK and TKR to form EMC and IQ might've been the most consequential set of events in the entire game's history, the impacts of this would reverberate until NPOLT.  IC had led TKR from the beginning as a small alliance that overtook the likes of T$, Pantheon, UPN, etc. to become #1 and find a strong set of allies.  IQ was defeated during Trail of Tiers and the trouble for TKR didn't start until well after IC stepped down.

Roquentin is another leader who was able to build his alliance from the ground up.  He originally started in Umbrella, and then he moved over to lead NPO.  It was a controversial move given the CN history, but NPO's characteristic tiering style was troublesome for any opponent and still sets the standard today for econ departments.  While NPO lost Trail of Tiers and Ayslamic Crusade, it's new bloc IQ became the strongest power by the end of this period taking it from TKR during KF.

Ripper may seem like an unconventional choice as a leader of arrgh, but his time in CoS/Valinor proved to be quite impactful.  KF was a major turning point for the entire game where the Syndi and later EMC coalition that had always won would finally lose.  However, the issue was bridging the gap between Syndisphere (T$-Syndi-Pantheon) and IQ, for which CoS and Test played large roles in facilitating as well as charting out the future of the game.  The concepts of a dynamic meta and minispheres would be generated here.  An honorable mention here is Thrax who played a similar role.

KF - NPOLT Era:

Roquentin (note I don't think he should get much acclaim but no doubt was the most powerful at this point), Adrienne, Buorhann 

Explanation:

Roquentin's role in NPOLT is plastered all over the forum.  I don't think he really deserves recognition for his actions here.

Adrienne was the glue of the resistance to IQ.  What began as a fractured coalition of minispheres between KETOGG, Chaos (miss you guys <3), and Rose was pushed to the limit as we were held under for 9 months straight.  It wasn't a group of friends but people who had a bare level of mutual interests, and Adrienne with deft kept those folks together and our front strong until her resolve paid off with the GPWC scandal.  While she had to whether KF early on, it wasn't much of her doing and she showed the world that TKR was not a pushover despite being ganged up 2-3 to 1 repeatedly.  A force truly to be reckoned with, and a leader who inspired the loyalty and activity of her entire alliance.  

Buorhann was also a key player in KETOGG, helping to set up Surf's Up and deal with NPOLT.  However, his contributions are mostly ideological.  The original KT/ET/TGH sphere was also a long-term goal to launch minispheres as the default meta.  Given the direction of the game after KF and especially afterwards, it's no doubt that his ideas are influential.  If you were to put a face on the movement, it'd be his.  

Beyond NPOLT:

Valk, Keegoz, Ben, Tyrion

Explanation:

Coming out of NPOLT, Rose was a shell of its former self.  It'd always suffered with competence issues and now it had basically no activity and was on life support after the year-long war.  Valk took charge in the middle of NPOLT when Zevfer disappeared, leaving him and Mhearl to deal with the fallout.  In less than a year, Rose was contending and then overtook TKR for the #1 spot.  It was transformative as Rose's changed up their econ system, invested in tech, and was seen as highly competent (at least until GnR).  Rose scored major victories against Quack and later HW, and is now by far the largest alliance in the game without having Alex make everyone join Rose.

Keegoz is a bit of a dark horse, but his influence is generally shadowy in the vein of his former colleague, Abbas.  That said, HM, briefly HW, and later Clock under CoTL and Cataclysm were continually at the forefront of the game.  They've an impressive war record and are generally the standard of competence that other spheres compare to.  Keegoz helps put the people and pieces in place to enable those things to happen.

While the HM/Quack conflict axis was important, it eventually became overshadowed by a rivalry with Rose, importantly Rose and TKR.  Ben had led the recovery of TKR from NPOLT and was crucial for the creation of HW which dominated the politics of 2021 with GnR and the eventual Syndi-Rose coalition (which also likely factored into their current alignment).  His TKR had been at the center of the game in Quack and then later on in HW. 

Tyrion's record is more mixed than the previous 3; however the list wouldn't be right if he wasn't considered.  Among the power brokers in this era, Tyrion was certainly always in the room and making changes to Swamp, Oasis, and later joining HW.  TI had started from scratch in the vein of Pantheon but has been pleasantly surprising in terms of competence relative to Pantheon (still a work in progress though).  For any sphere moves, knowing the thoughts of Tyrion who led the major bloc of lower and mid-tier nations was important.  

 

Overall:

Partisan, Dalinar (Infinite Citadel), Adrienne, Valk
 

If you only want to include one TKR:

Partisan, Roquentin, Adrienne, Valk

 

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This is actually a tough topic and often one I've been in discussion with a few folks in the past.  So I'll go with my Top 4 but I'm going to expand on it with other key figures of PnW's history.

Top 4: Abbas, Prefontaine, Partisan, and myself.

My main focus was the activity, contributions, and efforts in changing the game.

Abbas:  Ask anybody in the "know" and they'll often tell you how Abbas was a shadow government leader of Rose, but also of other alliances.  This guy was a trickster and was good at deflecting attention because he never put it on himself.  He'd message you with a plan and often push not only you, but others, into doing his plans.  Always in the back rooms, always influencing (or attempting to) other main leaders.  He had his hand in just about everybody who matter's cookie jar, so to speak.  For years, this guy was in everything just about - both in-game and out-of-game.  It was annoying how much he knew and how much effort he was putting in the game from the very start of his history.  He's easily in this conversation.

Prefontaine:  Early on, Prefontaine's leadership of Guardian, then TEst, then retiring to be more active in helping change the game's mechanics - whether you hate him or love him, he's a constant influence both in-game and out-of-game.  He was actually one of the first to start up a smaller sphere of alliances (Only for it to get trashed quickly) to try and break the status quo of the game, and he was often against hegemonic style of play.  Early on though, he did have a personality clash with many players, but that's just the nature of the game when you're aggressive and active.  You can't look at the history of the game and overlook his name, it's everywhere throughout the years of this game.

Partisan:  You could easily write a book on this guy, and he mostly managed to do his "thing" while remaining with one alliance (Ok, he did have his own gig, but c'mon - just like Abbas with Rose, he was still tied to Syndicate).  He laid the ground work out for promoting up Syndisphere with his heavy dose of FA skills, which inevitably changed the power structure of the game during that time.  Most people learning about FA would learn a lot from watching his antics.  Tied through lots of controversy with his method of diplomacy, especially in recent years, you cannot ignore that he helped change the game at a point when many didn't think it was possible.  Turning a fledgling group of 4 alliances into a power house sphere, then moving on to another project, so on, so forth.

Buorhann:  I'll try not to talk too much about myself, because it'd be heavily bias'd as it is, but ever since Mensa came into the game - it's been a constant nitpicking people's CB's as a forum annoyance to eventually helping lead the big powerhouse of Syndisphere to breaking off and pushing a minisphere idea which almost happened (Still talked about, but hasn't gone in the direction I'd like it to).  Often offering advice to others on how to help shape their own FA direction, helping newer alliances step it up, pushing for more content in the game by being a general aggressive &#33;@#&#036; of a Hippo, and hosting one of the arguably better radio shows in the game at a point in time (That's what I'm told).  Afterall, at one point, there was some things changed because of him.  (Still sad that God of Upvotes with the Hippo image is gone, but hey, nothing lasts forever).

 

Others I'd heavily consider:  SRD, Ripper, Keegoz, Adrienne (Although if Dalinar had stayed actively vocal, this would have changed), Jessica Rabbit, Manthrax, Ogaden, Roquentin, underlord, Memph, Sketchy, and Vanek.

I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting, but those are the names that pop off the top of my head when looking back.

Edited by Buorhann
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The most obvious choices are above so let me go with less obvious choices.

The character I never got to know her in person but she was kind of PnW star few years ago - Jessica Rabbit. Mostly due to her good work as leader of The Syndicate. And their famous war strategy which made her alliance one of the best fighters in the game. I also remember Treasure Island which I can't say for sure but she was heavily involved in this project as well. 

Ripper - his great work in Arrgh for keeping it alive and even getting profits from being a raider. He really made sure to keep people entertained and motivated for raiding.(no to mention he made some people leave with big pockets after their arrgh episode). He made cool comics at pnw forum, and overall he was a great community contributor for many years, apparently he is most likely busy with his rl so he is not so active as he used to be.

Manthrax - very likable guy who never was afraid to do something crazy things like hunting for dogging war whales as an alliance not just one guy venture or getting offical announcement about war before his alliance started it ( sure it wasn't obvious info who is a target but still you could guess, not many alliances would like to inform their enemy that is going to be hit by them). 

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1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

I'm just here for a hopeful ego boost.  I was sad till I got an honorable mention from Bour, Thanks buddy!

From your time in VE to Grumpy, you are a piece of this game’s history.  There’s an argument to be made on your behalf.  From the massive Paragon to smaller stuff with Grumpy, you’ve done a lot in-game.

———————————

When I think of “Mount Rushmore”, you have to pretty much look at the past and who helped shape what it is now.  There’s people who are known for doing things, but those who are old enough have seen it done before them.

For example: Roquentin would often be listed for his time in the game, but if you look at his time - a lot of it he pretty much did the same thing people before him did.  He just did it more vocally and controversially.

So you have to pretty much look at the original content that was either copied or stolen and see what they did to enhance it.  A lot of arguments with NPO early on back then was centered around, “Well you did this before, why can’t we do it now?”

However, with Roq and NPO, they did make Sheepy finally put his foot down to lock down on some stuff they managed to find a roundabout way of doing.  And NPO did change the political landscape during its time (But again, what major alliances haven’t during their prime?).

There is certainly an argument for him though, I won’t deny that.

That’s why when I look at the “Mount Rushmore”, I try to think of players who dabbled in multiple facets of the game, in my opinion.  Granted this is all subjective, and that’s why it’s always a interesting conversation.

For Abbas, he pretty much did everything.  For the longest time he shaped the political structure of the game, pushed for changes, even had a good radio show back when they were scarce.  I think the only thing he didn’t do was become a moderator for the forum.

Prefontaine pretty much did everything.  Literally everything.

EDIT:

And there's quite some others who I have missed, like Placentica, Tenages, Impero, Yosodog, LordStrum, LeotheGreat, etc.  While naming off well known and influential players, you're going to get to a point of flooding the pool of players to pick.  Still doesn't discredit their contributions, but you have to have some sort of filter to figure out who your own Top players are.

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The four R's Roquentin, paRtisan, pRe, and adRienne.

Runner ups: buoRhann, admiRal ogaden*, stRumm and yoso, pfeiffeR*, thalmoR, sRd, and a numbeR of otheRs but my body is old and my mind feeble.

*impact over their time was unique/immense but they lack the longevity or scale of impact of the top 4.

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I gotta be honest here, i dont see why anyone would put Roq on this list.  If you want to make a list of infamy sure.   He ran NPO, an alliance if i remember correctly that won 2 wars (I am giving them the win in the IQ war, even tho they disbanded in the end) in its entire existence.  Came into the game and was bankrolled by a shit ton of alliances, and only found dominance when it was bankrolled by an alliance of 1000 members whose only job was to feed them resources while they fought.  Then he used that power to pin half the game in a war for about 8 months. 

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On 6/19/2022 at 11:56 AM, BrythonLexi said:

Upstanding community members should go on such a memorial.
I think it goes without saying who the first one would be.
Ramona, Kurdanak, and Kyu as well - all upstanding, kind-hearted people that make this place better.

Awwwww, thanks. Just saw this. I would be in good company. ❤️

Humans cannot create anything out of nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding onto something. After all, humans are not gods.

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