[PEACE] Time is up. (Clock vs The Backrooms)

[Firwof Kromwell]

18 hours ago, BelgiumFury said:

and?
It's not because I expect people to be annoying that I won't call people out for it.
I have in the past had people quit this game because of toxicity when they went outside of Rose into Orbis. I have Rose members talk to me saying they consider quitting the game because of how toxic people are in the wider game.

So maybe I should accept it, but I won't take it, and to be quite frank neither should anyone else.

The more one can calmly n casually question, criticize, and process another's thoughts/feelings, the mentally stronger they are. Thus is due to exposure to different ideas, beliefs, & values to ensure better tolerance as well awareness. It takes a weaker mind to impose one's own weaknesses as strengths on to other's, especially when it's worsened in a hive mind mindset that forces people to be as similar as possible for the least amount of drama for only people who fall to follow along. Doing so does the vice versa over ones exposure to opposing ideas, values, and beliefs that will end up causing more drama instead of less. There's also a thing called positive toxicity where one denies opposing thoughts/feelings for one's own comforts in thoughts/emotions. Again, lack of tolerance even consideration is showing

 

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

4 hours ago, Borg said:

Wow. What a disingenuous take by you and SRD...

1. They are still the same community, same discord. It's just a training alliance. 
2. If you want to talk about splitting alliances. The last alliance to merge into rose had a sizeable splinter form from disgruntled gov. That's an actual split of a community that Rose is partly responsible for. 
3. The only GATO (or ex gato now) complaining that I can see is Han Solo, and it's not a view shared by the majority. You seem to be putting words into their mouth. 
4. Most everyone agrees that color bloc can be a valid war goal. It was literally added into the game for that reason.
5. GATO chose an alternative so it's abundantly clear that they view this as being preferred over simply changing colors. They can remain on brown and make more color revenue by shifting low tier to another color. 
6. Grumpy and your ally T$ are on green... It's like a ridiculous stance to claim the moral high ground when GATO would literally be rolled off green if they switched.

 

Disingenuous?   Cool, just remind me how you feel the next time someone forces you to do something you dont want to do, even if it "helps" you.

I will tell you, the last time someone tried to tell me how to run my alliance, my one and only goal was to roll them, and I accomplished that in the very next war we fought.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Sweeeeet Ronny D

[Firwof Kromwell]

3 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Disingenuous?   Cool, just remind me how you feel the next time someone forces you to do something you dont want to do, even if it "helps" you.

I will tell you, the last time someone tried to tell me how to run my alliance, my one and only goal was to roll them, and I accomplished that in the very next war we fought.

hes stating their are more diplomatic & reasonable methods to sorting issues out, like joint color bloc coordination in all depts instead of always being more behaviorally aggressive via wars & trash talk. All this sounds like is seethe to me since you apparently thought of nothing more than "Grumpy man lets roll out" cuz that may be a big source of bodily pains yall complain ova while Clock & BR ova here are actually doin sumthin.
 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Firwof Kromwell
oops

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

1 hour ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

hes stating their are more diplomatic & reasonable methods to sorting issues out, like joint color bloc coordination in all depts instead of always being more behaviorally aggressive via wars & trash talk. All this sounds like is seethe to me since you apparently thought of nothing more than "Grumpy man lets roll out" cuz that may be a big source of bodily pains yall complain ova while Clock & BR ova here are actually doin sumthin.

This coming from the guy that constantly leaves alliances because they dont take his suggestions?  Buddy, its not working together when someone has a gun pointed at someone else's head.

And to act like Grumpy/tS havent had probably the longest coordinated color bloc effort in the game is your ignorance talking.  Which we have and continue to maintain thru multiple wars against each other.

[Danzek]

4 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Cool, just remind me how you feel the next time someone forces you to do something you dont want to do, even if it "helps" you.

Look, I've always thought the mechanics for color blocs are... bad. And owning a color was always a bit dumb. Moving ppl off color blocs is often not economically justified, in which case you are doing it for political reasons. But that's what color blocs were added to the game for, and that's what's done to green... wtf is with the comical double standard?

Also, btw, green is max, and if it drops, there are 72 nations <c20 on green. Maybe your understanding of the score of spies and game mechanics in general is lacking, but "forcing" Aurora off green wouldn't be because they are tanking the revenue. Aurora notably has a training alliance and their low tier is on another color. 

So.. do you just want an excuse to be as petty as you are accusing others of. 
 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Borg

[Chad]

6 minutes ago, Borg said:

Look, I've always thought the mechanics for color blocs are... bad. And owning a color was always a bit dumb. Moving ppl off color blocs is often not economically justified, in which case you are doing it for political reasons. But that's what color blocs were added to the game for, and that's what's done to green... wtf is with the comical double standard?

Also, btw, green is max, and if it drops, there are 72 nations <c20 on green. Maybe your understanding of the score of spies and game mechanics in general is lacking, but "forcing" Aurora off green wouldn't be because they are tanking the revenue. Aurora notably has a training alliance and their low tier is on another color. 

So.. do you just want an excuse to be as petty as you are accusing others of. 
 

So I don't think I am over reading into this we in Aurora should move over Serpentis to green. 

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

50 minutes ago, Borg said:

Look, I've always thought the mechanics for color blocs are... bad. And owning a color was always a bit dumb. Moving ppl off color blocs is often not economically justified, in which case you are doing it for political reasons. But that's what color blocs were added to the game for, and that's what's done to green... wtf is with the comical double standard?

Also, btw, green is max, and if it drops, there are 72 nations <c20 on green. Maybe your understanding of the score of spies and game mechanics in general is lacking, but "forcing" Aurora off green wouldn't be because they are tanking the revenue. Aurora notably has a training alliance and their low tier is on another color. 

So.. do you just want an excuse to be as petty as you are accusing others of. 
 

You are a numbers guy, you know that the less amount of people on a color the better the bonus will be due to the math behind it.  Aurora is not raising the aggregate or average DNR in green, but they are significantly raising the number of people on the color, which hurts the bonus. 

We looked at having Guardian join green like 8-12 months ago, who are on average one of the largest nation size alliances in the game, while they would have raised our average DNR, the additional 30-35 members would have still dragged down our bonus.

As for the petty part, I get you are not an FA guy that understands why copying months worth of upper level bloc chat and posting in your gov chat to get leaked is a bad thing, but yeah that was the point.  People want to come on here and say what they did was not shitty?  Cool if given the chance, I will do the same to you, and then we can talk about how shitty it is when I take away your alliance's sovereignty.

[Danzek]

1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

You are a numbers guy, you know that the less amount of people on a color the better the bonus will be due to the math behind it.  Aurora is not raising the aggregate or average DNR in green, but they are significantly raising the number of people on the color, which hurts the bonus. 

We looked at having Guardian join green like 8-12 months ago, who are on average one of the largest nation size alliances in the game, while they would have raised our average DNR, the additional 30-35 members would have still dragged down our bonus.

As for the petty part, I get you are not an FA guy that understands why copying months worth of upper level bloc chat and posting in your gov chat to get leaked is a bad thing, but yeah that was the point.  People want to come on here and say what they did was not shitty?  Cool if given the chance, I will do the same to you, and then we can talk about how shitty it is when I take away your alliance's sovereignty.

Yes. It works that way. But the revenue caps at 75k. So there's no point pushing people off so long as you can hit that cap. I suppose you can trade some alliance, e.g. Aurora for Guardian. Though as I said there are plenty of nations lower tiered than Aurora on green, so the optimal strategy would be to focus on them first I would think. It is a thing you can do I suppose? GATO had low tier, and they were not hit because of their color, like I'm all too familiar happens with green. BR had plans to hit clock, it was the peace term. 

Still not sure how it's fine when you guys do it but when others police a color you call them scumbags. whatever. 

Also, re: the FA leak. Yeah, i'm not great at FA. Though the person that leaked was high gov and was in those hedge chats too. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have done it, and should have known better. It sucks to be betrayed. 

btw, my stance on colors is more that you're in here calling others scumbags when green being policed imo is just as bad if not worse. In terms of eclipse wanting GATO off brown, I think it was a waste and I personally wouldn't have asked for it. And I said as much in public that it likely wouldn't make economic sense to prolong the Clock/BR war over color. 

Not sure what you mean by "doing the same to me". I'm not gov or leader in an alliance and certainly not FA. Seems like an odd threat though. Like to so easily go against whatever moral principle you espouse. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Borg

[Shiho Nishizumi]

45 minutes ago, Borg said:

Yes. It works that way. But the revenue caps at 75k. So there's no point pushing people off so long as you can hit that cap. I suppose you can trade some alliance, e.g. Aurora for Guardian. Though as I said there are plenty of nations lower tiered than Aurora on green, so the optimal strategy would be to focus on them first I would think.

They're focused first. It's just a matter that more pop up in between. It's a constant undertaking.

[BelgiumFury]

13 hours ago, Borg said:

1. They are still the same community, same discord. It's just a training alliance. 
2. If you want to talk about splitting alliances. The last alliance to merge into rose had a sizeable splinter form from disgruntled gov. That's an actual split of a community that Rose is partly responsible for. 
3. The only GATO (or ex gato now) complaining that I can see is Han Solo, and it's not a view shared by the majority. You seem to be putting words into their mouth. 
4. Most everyone agrees that color bloc can be a valid war goal. It was literally added into the game for that reason.
5. GATO chose an alternative so it's abundantly clear that they view this as being preferred over simply changing colors. They can remain on brown and make more color revenue by shifting low tier to another color. 
6. Grumpy and your ally T$ are on green... It's like a ridiculous stance to claim the moral high ground when GATO would literally be rolled off green if they switched.

1. of course never claimed otherwise.
2. Yes I am aware. This splinter was lead by someone who didn't feel at home in rose. This splinter was (from govt members) only continued by one IA high govt, and more importantly it was never our intentntion. However, I feel like i should highlight the majority of high govt and leadership joined and stayed in rose. It is dissapointing the merger had to end like this and it was never our intention. It's particularly funny because the only relevant person who was upset was Han Solo, the same person you discredit in your next point. Even more funny is that he has left GATO by now, should I blame Clock for a splinter now?
3. After a peace deal i feel like you cant really do a lot can you? Are you going to be publicly upset as GATO? No hate towards GATO but they are a very minor power, without leverage to really complain a lot.
4. It wasn't a war goal, it was added after the war, on an alliance that I would not consider a main beligerent.
5. An alliance of their size can not really carry the burden of losing hundreds of millions, and an alliance of their size can not unilaterally decide to extend the war like Rose, TKR or etc could.
6. And? I am a Rose member with minimal FA influence within my own alliance. I have 0 influence in Grumpy (as it should be lol) and essentially the same in TS. 

 

[Firwof Kromwell]

6 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

This coming from the guy that constantly leaves alliances because they dont take his suggestions?  Buddy, its not working together when someone has a gun pointed at someone else's head.

Yes ik, I have had a metaphorical gun to my head multiple times due to me questioning and critiquing ideas as well behaviors. I'm not one thou to obey like a sheep to a selfish more closed minded shepherd. Me doing that is mostly why I'm at where I'm at w/ my rep, which is also why I choose to care less for crap coming my way. It's not ignorance, it's knowing what's worth my time.

6 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

And to act like Grumpy/tS havent had probably the longest coordinated color bloc effort in the game is your ignorance talking.  Which we have and continue to maintain thru multiple wars against each other.

Oh not this cop out again, how many times do ya have to be told? Y'all are criticized cuz ya never have changed your choice of allies for years compared to even other great powers too. A change is refreshing once in a while too. Ask your allies since looking back at this past year,they at least know. Or even Johnson's & Clock aa's too.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

59 minutes ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

Oh not this cop out again, how many times do ya have to be told? Y'all are criticized cuz ya never have changed your choice of allies for years compared to even other great powers too. A change is refreshing once in a while too. Ask your allies since looking back at this past year,they at least know. Or even Johnson's & Clock aa's too.

I don't know if you know this, but Grumpy and Ts have never been allies, that was the point, despite our years long animosity toward each other and multiple wars fought against each other, we have always worked together on trying to keep the green color bonus in good standing.  It's that whole politics thing you were whining about above.

 

[Danzek]

11 hours ago, BelgiumFury said:

It's particularly funny because the only relevant person who was upset was Han Solo, the same person you discredit in your next point. Even more funny is that he has left GATO by now, should I blame Clock for a splinter now?

Yes. I was aware it was him. Was hoping you'd catch that. XD. I think it's apt, because Rose discredited him then. 

11 hours ago, BelgiumFury said:

No hate towards GATO but they are a very minor power, without leverage to really complain a lot.

You need leverage to complain? idk, what are we doing here, you and I, both with no FA power.. complaining?

11 hours ago, BelgiumFury said:

on an alliance that I would not consider a main beligerent.

Actually, GATO was. Maybe to your surprise. High tier was secured, so GATO's tiering was relevant, and their war performance in the last GW had improved a fair bit. Or rather in comparison to Legion/OWR, who's war performance has been consistently... not great

11 hours ago, BelgiumFury said:

An alliance of their size can not really carry the burden of losing hundreds of millions, and an alliance of their size can not unilaterally decide to extend the war like Rose, TKR or etc could.

If you see the document leaked, GATO were given several alternatives. Otherwise I'm not sure I really follow what you are trying to say. 

11 hours ago, BelgiumFury said:

And? I am a Rose member with minimal FA influence within my own alliance. I have 0 influence in Grumpy (as it should be lol) and essentially the same in TS. 

And yet you proceeded to support SRD's statement, which was a flagrant double standard by him. 

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Borg

[KindaEpicMoah]

[Buorhann]

On 6/16/2022 at 2:41 PM, Borg said:

Yes. It works that way. But the revenue caps at 75k. So there's no point pushing people off so long as you can hit that cap.

Logically and beneficially speaking, you're correct.  However, why should they front load the bonus for others to leech off of?

Personally I admire how Grumpy and t$ leadership have managed to work alongside each other on Green while also beating each other up.  Shows a good flexibility of...  well, politics and war.  If you want to challenge them on how they enforce the Color Bloc they built up, goodluck.

[Danzek]

16 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Logically and beneficially speaking, you're correct.  However, why should they front load the bonus for others to leech off of?

SRD leaves most of the policing to other alliances, like T$ and is in fact incapable of policing the lower tiers at all, due to it being outside their score range. There are several alliances who have come to an agreement. If he wants to unilaterally kick someone off, then it would mean expending some political capital and using military force to do so. I would assume the current status quo is due to this rather than requiring benevolence on SRD's part. 

That said, I don't know what the situation with Aurora is, but my guess is T$ would prefer them on green than Guardian, seeing as how guardian is more of a competitor and threat.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Borg

[Buorhann]

1 hour ago, Borg said:

SRD leaves most of the policing to other alliances, like T$ and is in fact incapable of policing the lower tiers at all, due to it being outside their score range. There are several alliances who have come to an agreement. If he wants to unilaterally kick someone off, then it would mean expending some political capital and using military force to do so. I would assume the current status quo is due to this rather than requiring benevolence on SRD's part. 

That said, I don't know what the situation with Aurora is, but my guess is T$ would prefer them on green than Guardian, seeing as how guardian is more of a competitor and threat.

Well, it's either kick them off or move to dominate another color.  They have a partnership with Syndicate about Green.  Why not use it to it's full effect to ensure it's bonus?

As for the last part of the statement, who knows.  That's part of the game.

Hell, I waged a couple of wars in the past just to kick people off of Yellow just for shits and giggles.  Not necessarily for any benefit, but just to have a Color Bloc war.

[Prefonteen]

17 hours ago, Borg said:

SRD leaves most of the policing to other alliances, like T$ and is in fact incapable of policing the lower tiers at all, due to it being outside their score range. There are several alliances who have come to an agreement. If he wants to unilaterally kick someone off, then it would mean expending some political capital and using military force to do so. I would assume the current status quo is due to this rather than requiring benevolence on SRD's part. 

That said, I don't know what the situation with Aurora is, but my guess is T$ would prefer them on green than Guardian, seeing as how guardian is more of a competitor and threat.

Aurora can gobble on deez green nuts

Edited June 19, 2022 by Prefonteen

[Han Solo]

On 6/16/2022 at 6:37 PM, BelgiumFury said:

1. of course never claimed otherwise.
2. Yes I am aware. This splinter was lead by someone who didn't feel at home in rose. This splinter was (from govt members) only continued by one IA high govt, and more importantly it was never our intentntion. However, I feel like i should highlight the majority of high govt and leadership joined and stayed in rose. It is dissapointing the merger had to end like this and it was never our intention. It's particularly funny because the only relevant person who was upset was Han Solo, the same person you discredit in your next point. Even more funny is that he has left GATO by now, should I blame Clock for a splinter now?
3. After a peace deal i feel like you cant really do a lot can you? Are you going to be publicly upset as GATO? No hate towards GATO but they are a very minor power, without leverage to really complain a lot.
4. It wasn't a war goal, it was added after the war, on an alliance that I would not consider a main beligerent.
5. An alliance of their size can not really carry the burden of losing hundreds of millions, and an alliance of their size can not unilaterally decide to extend the war like Rose, TKR or etc could.
6. And? I am a Rose member with minimal FA influence within my own alliance. I have 0 influence in Grumpy (as it should be lol) and essentially the same in TS. 

 

2. If I was the only one that "didnt feel at home in Rose" then why did I take 10 people with me?
2. it WAS your intention to swallow us whole.  Dont deny it.
2. Yes, you should blame Clock for splitting GATO...splintering itself.

[BelgiumFury]

1 hour ago, Han Solo said:

2. If I was the only one that "didnt feel at home in Rose" then why did I take 10 people with me?
2. it WAS your intention to swallow us whole.  Dont deny it.
2. Yes, you should blame Clock for splitting GATO...splintering itself.

1: You were an IA head and were very close friends with these people? Most prominent figures (outside of you) stayed. You left with a group of your friends.
2: We must have had a type of miscommunication here, after a merger it is indeed our goal to have an alliance merge into us completly. I didn't have any intention to deny that, appologies. I said our goal wasnt to intentionally cause a splinter.
3 Okay.