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A suggestion I would give that I think both sides would be able to understand make it like trading so you can't use it while you our blockaded. 

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1 hour ago, His Holy Decagon said:

Where are the comments where people are complaining about baseball? I’ve never really seen any actual person bring up baseball of all things, as an issue.


I think raising “issues” because a few people go wild, is almost a form of gaslighting, meanwhile I never see a single soul complain.

If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but who is actually complaining?

(Also, I literally just maxed my team/stadium and have had a lot of fun delving into this little baseball sub-community; really unsure what the big whoop is.)

My apologies for not making an explicit thread and raising a hue and cry about baseball. I sure would have had I known that you would find the will of the majority of the game, which hasn't been explicitly expressed as being equivalent to gaslighting.

FYI back in the days of NPOLT, baseball was much more serious than it is now and me and Changeup worked together to stop IQ from using baseball money to finance the war against us. While the issue is less 'serious' now (hence our lack of posting) it by no means is solved. 

This game is based on skill, and by keeping baseball as a viable cash generator, me and other players who don't have enough time to invest into baseball are being left behind by those who do. 

39 minutes ago, BigMorf said:

In a game where people complain consistently about Whales and the lack of any meaningful catch up mechanics, nerfing something that can serve as a potential catch up mechanic to me is seemingly foolish. 

I don't think there is any issue with people who want to get some extra effort in can make a little extra cash. Also, let's not act like Alex isn't getting a bit of money coming in for these baseball games. When I play my two fifty games, I get an ad every time I click! 

Cap it if you want it, but 1million a day is only going to hurt smaller nations who are looking for a chance to catch up with a little effort. At least make it comparable to rewarded ads, which I notice no one is complaining about. 

For a catch up mechanic to be viable, it needs to be accessible to players who have time as well as who don't. Rewarded ads runs in our backgrounds with a script while we are busy doing other things, so no one complains about it, naturally. Baseball is a much more significant time and cash investment.

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19 minutes ago, Isjaki said:

This game is based on skill, and by keeping baseball as a viable cash generator, me and other players who don't have enough time to invest into baseball are being left behind by those who do.

Can you please clarify what "skill" is required of a c40+ nation who doesn't even need to log in once a day to earn 50+ times as much income as the proposed 1m baseball cap? I apologize if my question may sound arrogant but it's not my intent. I'm legitimately curious because I don't think longevity should be considered a skill.

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4 minutes ago, Canbec said:

Can you please clarify what "skill" is required of a c40+ nation who doesn't even need to log in once a day to earn 50+ times as much income as the proposed 1m baseball cap? I apologize if my question may sound arrogant but it's not my intent. I'm legitimately curious because I don't think longevity should be considered a skill.

Whataboutery doesn't answer the question, does it? Every new player on Orbis has the same opportunities to watch ads or raid or trade and make it to the big leagues quick, and that is respectable. Clicking buttons in a screen to make money off baseball, it's a privilege, the privilege of time which a lot of us lack.

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7 minutes ago, Isjaki said:

Whataboutery doesn't answer the question, does it? Every new player on Orbis has the same opportunities to watch ads or raid or trade and make it to the big leagues quick, and that is respectable. Clicking buttons in a screen to make money off baseball, it's a privilege, the privilege of time which a lot of us lack.

How is my question whataboutism? Your main argument is this game should be based on skill rather than time, so I don't see how it's irrelevant for me to ask what these supposed skills are. Especially since the examples you gave like raiding and trading also require significant time commitments to maximize profitability.

 

By several metrics I think I've been fairly "successful" in my 14 months playing this game, yet the onky major reason I can point to for that "success" is the amount of time I've devoted to this game. No special set of skills, just time.

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Can we all take a breath for a moment and try to let some of the emotions settle to give way to a more meaningful conversation?

Speaking for myself I can assure you, the only grudge I hold against baseball is having to have conversations like these. Do I think it's a dumb mechanic in these games? Sure. Do I care that it exists? Not really. Do I care that it's abusable? That's where I care.

The thread started with some ideas about how to allow for it to exist, and how to focus the benefits, and I was definitely receptive to it. Belgium and I are on board with the no changes for X days after announced changes to allow for ROI for recent investors. Rather than spitting venom at baseball users or at those proposing to change it, spend the energy on finding better solutions.

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Right now, there is only a cap of 250 Home games in Baseball. However, there is no cap for Away games. With tips, a nation can make up to $3-4 million a day from Home games [compared to rewarded ads with a cap of 2 million]. As for Away games, you need at least 1000+ just to make the same amount. To max your Baseball team, it costs $40 million. So to gain your money back, you will need to play Baseball every day for 11 days. A cap of 1 million means a nation will only bring in $600-700k a day after tips. Sure, someone who botted baseball and crashed the game deserved a ban. Meanwhile, the script that most players are using still requires the player to manually click the buttons and refreshes the page if the game suspects you are auto-clicking if you click too fast. I understand that Baseball is not meant to be a main source of income just like rewarded ads and Keno. However, placing a $1 million cap on Baseball will only punish players who play Baseball every day.

Possible alternatives:
- $5 million cap on earnings per day
- make Away games more profitable or some kind of cap on them
- a scaled cap on earnings based on city count like @The Whale mentioned
- Decrease the cost to upgrade your stadium to make it more accessible for new players 

Edited by Key
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My opinion may not reflect those of my alliance or its affiliates. Please read at your own discretion.

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After a pretty long conversation in a news server a general point everyone agreed on was a 2 million dollar a day cap to keep it in line with reward ads.

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Why are you reading this.

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You only earn 100% income from baseball for the first 250 games you play each day, home or away. After that you only earn 10% for each game. If you nerf baseball too much or just remove it from the game you will probably see a good sized drop in activity in the game because people will have no reason to log in more than once per day, if that. Trading is dominated by a few nations that use scripts to tell them when they have been undercut so they can then come back and do the same so the smaller players will just get tired of that and not trade.

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1 hour ago, Who Me said:

Pre just has a hard-on for baseball and has for a very long time. Quite frankly he should just be removed from the dev team because of his constant desire to kill something that anyone in the game can use equally. He seems obsessed with killing something that new players can use to help them boost their nations quickly which is something sheepy seems to desire. 

I have to jump on this I am a new player comparatively as in I am about 1/4 as old as you in term of nation days. I can tell you this as someone who is new and teaches cadet. Over my time teaching now about 100 cadets about 10 at most have used baseball profitably. I as an anecdote also played baseball at the start wasted my first city grant money and lost 90% of that money in the end. Why do I  say this it's simple and the data backs this up the people who play and use baseball the most our upper tier nations. I also will ask if this is about helping noobs why do the people who play baseball the most embargo new nations with messages such as upgrade your staduim. 

Why are you reading this.

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2 hours ago, His Holy Decagon said:

Where are the comments where people are complaining about baseball? I’ve never really seen any actual person bring up baseball of all things, as an issue.

I'll do it; I've been pretty anti baseball ever since NPOLT baseball exploitation. There you go, im an actual person who actually playes this game and wants baseball to be poofed. (And I have mostly held this opinion for +- 2 years now). Back in the day I was with a small group of people who tracked baseball earnings (pre NPOLT nerf), and from that day on, i don't like it. 

Do you have to agree with that? No, you don't. But it's not like nobody agrees with this take of him.

Edited by BelgiumFury
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I got a better idea. Remove baseball revenues completely so botters can't make free and undeserved money off it. No need to thanks me.

Edited by Pascal
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4 or 5 million a day is nothing to a larger nation, and it's quite a bit for a c15, so this is going to disadvantage smaller players even more. Key has a good suggestion about putting a cap on away games to stop people who could be using autoclickers to play baseball all day. But honestly if someone is willing to no-life this game so much that they'll sit and click a button for 4 hours a day, who cares? Is it also unfair that some people aren't willing to take the time to find good raid targets or set beige timers and thus make less money than people who do? More time and effort = more money in this game, I don't see anything wrong with that. 

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Hi first post here 👋, I really don’t understand the big deal about nerfing baseball to be honest, like if someone wants to spend hours of their time on clicking a button so their virtual nation can have more money, I say go for it. I personally don’t really play baseball much because I believe that I have better things to do, but if you care enough about this game to spend hours playing baseball, I think that you should be rewarded for it. And I know people are going to point out how much certain people make, but baseball is pretty much accessible for anyone in the game so anyone complaining could do the same thing if they really wanted to. That’s just my take on this 🤷‍♂️

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I feel you are right in wanting to nerf baseball. See theoretically you could get infinite money from baseball. once you play 250 games the money you make from baseball with fully maxed stats decreased a lot but is still a lot. So IN theory if a player had the time and ablity along with another player and Used the tool to help them and clicked every second 24 hours straight they could make over 200 mil a day. Of course that is impossible because it would require 24 hours staying awake from 2 people and clicking every second for 24 hours but the fact that could happen should not stay. I think instead of capping the amount you make from it. Cap the games you can play per day to like 250 or 300 or 500. Its more realistic as how you actually play that many games in a day and solves a problem

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33 minutes ago, Novax25 said:

Hi first post here 👋, I really don’t understand the big deal about nerfing baseball to be honest, like if someone wants to spend hours of their time on clicking a button so their virtual nation can have more money, I say go for it. I personally don’t really play baseball much because I believe that I have better things to do, but if you care enough about this game to spend hours playing baseball, I think that you should be rewarded for it. And I know people are going to point out how much certain people make, but baseball is pretty much accessible for anyone in the game so anyone complaining could do the same thing if they really wanted to. That’s just my take on this 🤷‍♂️

 

34 minutes ago, Cassia said:

4 or 5 million a day is nothing to a larger nation, and it's quite a bit for a c15, so this is going to disadvantage smaller players even more. Key has a good suggestion about putting a cap on away games to stop people who could be using autoclickers to play baseball all day. But honestly if someone is willing to no-life this game so much that they'll sit and click a button for 4 hours a day, who cares? Is it also unfair that some people aren't willing to take the time to find good raid targets or set beige timers and thus make less money than people who do? More time and effort = more money in this game, I don't see anything wrong with that. 

They use bots and leave their comp afk, that's not really advantageous to new players who don't have bots but instead helps only well connected players in established alliances.

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1 minute ago, Mayor said:

 

They use bots and leave their comp afk, that's not really advantageous to new players who don't have bots but instead helps only well connected players in established alliances.

I know they use bots, but they all the bots require the person using them to push an actual button every time that they start a game. Like when that one guy removed that button push, he crashed the servers and was banned, as he should’ve been. Seeing as the servers is not constantly down, you can assume that they are all following the rules, and are spending hours of their day on it, and I think that that level of time commitment should be rewarded. As for the new player thing, we, as a community, could make bots more accessible in order to mitigate that. Like when we make our nation we already get dozens of messages about alliances, shouldn’t be too hard to send one about baseball as well.

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And let’s be honest if any of the major earners, who are taking in idk how much money a day, were cheating, they would’ve already been banned. Especially with how many times baseball needs have been mentioned by the dev team.

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Just now, Mayor said:

 

They use bots and leave their comp afk, that's not really advantageous to new players who don't have bots but instead helps only well connected players in established alliances.

I've been doing baseball instead of ads because it's slightly quicker and the ad timer doesn't work properly for me. I definitely don't support people who use autoclickers and bots to cheat, and no doubt there are some people who do, I just don't think a few people getting 8 mil a day by either cheating or spending hours clicking a button is a good reason to get rid of a fairly minor source of additional income for the majority of folks who follow the rules and spend maybe 15 mins a day to get a few million.

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1 minute ago, Cassia said:

I've been doing baseball instead of ads because it's slightly quicker and the ad timer doesn't work properly for me. I definitely don't support people who use autoclickers and bots to cheat, and no doubt there are some people who do, I just don't think a few people getting 8 mil a day by either cheating or spending hours clicking a button is a good reason to get rid of a fairly minor source of additional income for the majority of folks who follow the rules and spend maybe 15 mins a day to get a few million.

Actually You are allowed to automate ads with scripts.

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Just now, Epicness7131 said:

Actually You are allowed to automate ads with scripts.

Yes I know, the script does not work for me. It gives me a warning that says something like "out of sync with what the server is reporting" and forces me to refresh after each ad. The timer also takes far more than 180 seconds if I try to go to a different tab, sometimes I'll go back in a couple minutes and the timer has barely moved.

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