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State of Baseball


Prefontaine
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2 minutes ago, Itachi said:

A cap of $1M/day makes it just not worth doing. If its going to get capped it should definitely be higher than $1M. Perhaps a monthly cap that makes it still appealing to those with the time but not feeling mandatory to those without the inclination?

How much would a monthly cap look like in your opinion?

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1 minute ago, Prefontaine said:

How much would a monthly cap look like in your opinion?

I'd think somewhere in the range of 75M-100M at least. This assuming that the answer is that it either gets capped in some way or removed entirely.

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5 minutes ago, Itachi said:

I'd think somewhere in the range of 75M-100M at least. This assuming that the answer is that it either gets capped in some way or removed entirely.

What about a scaled cap? Something that say stops growing around 25 cities? Starts at being able to ear 40M per month at 1 city, and then grows by 2M per city up to something near 80M?

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15 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

What about a scaled cap? Something that say stops growing around 25 cities? Starts at being able to ear 40M per month at 1 city, and then grows by 2M per city up to something near 80M?

Something like this sounds interesting.

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4 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

What about a scaled cap? Something that say stops growing around 25 cities? Starts at being able to ear 40M per month at 1 city, and then grows by 2M per city up to something near 80M?

I remember reading in a previous post that part of your negative view about baseball was due to some players making exorbitant amounts of money out of it. I also know that most (if not all) of those players are whales.

That said, I understand baseball can be unbalanced when you have multiple whales profiting millions daily. But it is important to mention that for new players (who are extremely important for the game's future), baseball is a way to close the gap between them and the older nations.

So, don't you think it would be smarter for the cap to reduce according to the player's city count? You could set a base gap of $100mil a month and after c15 it reduces $2.5mil per city built until it reaches $50mil.

I think it would be a healthier way to handle this issue.

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Just now, The Whale said:

I remember reading in a previous post that part of your negative view about baseball was due to some players making exorbitant amounts of money out of it. I also know that most (if not all) of those players are whales.

That said, I understand baseball can be unbalanced when you have multiple whales profiting millions daily. But it is important to mention that for new players (who are extremely important for the game's future), baseball is a way to close the gap between them and the older nations.

So, don't you think it would be smarter for the cap to reduce according to the player's city count? You could set a base gap of $100mil a month and after c15 it reduces $2.5mil per city built until it reaches $50mil.

I think it would be a healthier way to handle this issue.

Last I looked it wasn't whales using it to the extreme. I'm fine making it a decreasing cap as well. 

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Just now, Prefontaine said:

Last I looked it wasn't whales using it to the extreme. I'm fine making it a decreasing cap as well. 

Because as @Ben Zene said, a lot of new players started to play baseball the last couple of months. 

 

I do agree that nowadays most players aren't whales, but baseball is an important tool that helps closing the gap between whales and the rest of the pack. Making it an increasing cap is only going to make the problem worse.

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6 minutes ago, Ben Zene said:

3. It's not as if the $8M is free money. I am one of these players and I have decided that spending a few hours clicking mindlessly (for about $2k a click after the daily 250 limit) is worth my time.

I agree and I don't think anyone claims you do. The point I am making (from the "anti-baseball" camp). Is that I don't like that an inconsequential (or at least a mechanic that was not intended to be meta defining) has the potential to be meta defining if someone clicks for 2 hours in an end.
Clicking 2 hours on end is what cookie clicker is for, not PnW.
But thats my 50 cents.

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This seems like a good suggestion and a great way to level the playing field between individuals with time and those without. Naturally, there will be pushback from the players who have time on their hands. A 30 day grace period for baseball investors to redeem their investments seems appropriate.

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1 hour ago, Prefontaine said:

For those unaware, baseball has several issues in terms of balancing with respect to the game. When used casually it is not disruptive, however there are some who do not use baseball casually. Here are the main talking points

  • There are players bringing in over 8M a day playing baseball (240M per month)
  • These high end players largely use bot assisted tools
  • Recent game disruption (serve crashing) was a result of these tools. 

Some other points to note:

  • Baseball is heavily used by some alliances as part of the military strategy for funding nations in blockade, or otherwise down and out in a war. I expect them to have a heavy protesting presence here. 
  • Baseball is not intended to be a core, or necessary mechanic in the game.

In our solutions to how to address Baseball problems is that we don't want to burden the players who want nothing to do with baseball to have be essential to growth. An early solution to this was a proposed daily 5M cap that was much easier to reach. 5M per day is 10x the normal max login bonus, 10% of a whales income, over double a newish players income, and would be the largest single source of revenue outside of lucky raids. Anyone who didn't play baseball for this 5M would fall behind easily. 

Baseball is proposed to have the following changes:

  • Daily revenue from baseball is capped at $1M
  • Players age rate is reduced by 25% (retire more slowly)
  • Revenue from baseball is increased 25% (makes getting to the $1M easier)

If you're largely against these changes, please suggest an alternative that follows the concept of not making baseball a pivotal part of the game for income. I'm open to other ideas, but not open to leaving things as is. Baseball has become a growing issue that has more and more been met with a "Lets get rid of it" response. The idea is to avoid that, so a change needs to happen or it'll just go away at this point. 

I strongly disagree with your points. The threat of a ban, while not preventing all exploits, is surely a better way to prevent cheating then a 1 mil cap. I don’t use any form of bot, and I collect about 2-4 mil a day from baseball, excluding any home game fees that we give out. Putting a cap of 1 mil would utterly destroy any reason most players play baseball in the first place.

It takes from my experiences 2ish million to fully upgrade a player to max stats. Multiply that by the entire team, and you’re looking at 20 million spent on players alone. Then add that to the quick ageing and most times only getting 30+ yo players after a retirement, and this adds up quickly. I have a 100 rated team with max stadium upgrades, and it has costed me close to 75 million overall. 

While 1 million is already small enough, it doesn’t account for the standard 33% fee most away teams charge home teams for playing games. Therefore, a home team’s max is really 666k, and a away team’s max is so much higher then 1 mil, given how pitiful the winning team’s reward is (I’ve never had it go over $800, even when two max teams face off in a packed maxed out stadium), it would effectively encourage boting from away teams to try and make money. By adding this cap, you’re adding a incentive to cheat. I almost exclusively log in to P&W to keep my baseball team as good as it can be, but if this cap is created I would seriously consider deleting or stop using my account, as I would assume a lot of other baseball-focused players and alliances would.

The baseball mechanic is in dire need of a overhaul, and while decreasing ageing and increasing profits is nice, it is completely overshadowed by what terrible consequences would arise if such a small cap is introduced. If you want solutions, try and make leagues for the player to progress in that give more money for better teams, or being able to upgrade your stadium past 30,000 with more customisation. You could introduce academy bonuses and such, all that cost money and gives a rewarding experience for the player.

If what you say is true and that there have been talks around scrapping the baseball feature, I would much rather you get rid of all of this instead of butcher it like these changes would. I hope this has at least partially changed your mind, if only to increase the cap to a appropriate amount, say 5mil.

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2 minutes ago, Isjaki said:

Baseball was never meant to be a means for making money. We have precedent for that in Alex's earlier nerf of baseball when GOONS exploited it. Main money earner is national income.

The previous nerf was also a mistake. If baseball isn’t profitable, then it’s just a money pit that only exists to be a number on a screen. With the money I invested into baseball I could have made multiple cities, or other more traditional things. Having some like baseball as a money maker adds depth, removing it would make the game more generic.

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Yeah just put an end to its misery already :v
I don't see why you would keep it around when it clearly only brings problems again and again. Just so people can get baited into spending an hour to click for what i make in a turn? (at this point it's probably handled by scripts anyway)

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3 minutes ago, Florania said:

The previous nerf was also a mistake. If baseball isn’t profitable, then it’s just a money pit that only exists to be a number on a screen. With the money I invested into baseball I could have made multiple cities, or other more traditional things. Having some like baseball as a money maker adds depth, removing it would make the game more generic.

I might say it makes the gameplay more fair to all players, actually. I played baseball manually back in the day without bots because I had time, and I don't have time to use bots these days. Politics and War is a game that fundamentally relies upon a player's skill, and keeping baseball high favours just clicking on a screen as opposed to an actually skilled gameplay.

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15 minutes ago, Isjaki said:

Baseball was never meant to be a means for making money. We have precedent for that in Alex's earlier nerf of baseball when GOONS exploited it. Main money earner is national income.

This. Baseball was meant to be purely a time sink, and that's all.

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I would say allow players to redeem the money they sank in and have a grace period then it becomes purely cosmetic. 

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Why are you reading this.

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I know second comment in a row but so be it. Let's say hypothetically speaking there our no nerfs and the baseball system stays as is. The biggest issue in my mind is the cheating and the server issues it causes. At the very least an increase of moderations time would be needed to police it and remove the bad apples witch are all too common. Certain people wish to discount how much baseball bot usage there is and I believe that is a key misunderstanding of the current issues the game faces in terms of baseball related issues. 

Why are you reading this.

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