Peace in our Time

[Miller]

9 hours ago, Majima Goro said:

You know they will come for you. Not now but they will eventually come for you. The question is when.

Do they have a particular set of skills that make them a nightmare for people like us?

[Lossi]

All this treaty shows is that Ro$eyWood has an open door policy.  Now we need to sign Celestial and Clock, we can create the anti-alex hegemony.

[Cooper_]

5 hours ago, Azazel said:

HA! This may be how you or the top 3 alliances who combined forces *envisioned* it but I promise you a hegemonic power was definitely not everyone's elses goal or vision 

And there you have it folks, we've gone full circle to claims of hegemony.  The nefarious plan to not lose build slots for a few weeks is going to break minispheres!  

I apologize if we did someone the disservice of not letting them get a free, unearned win on a demilitarized foe.  You come in here yapping about hegemony.  Please, what a joke.

Spheres interacting with each other, especially former rivals (i.e. "dynamism"), is exactly how it was imaged.  Politics was meant to be interesting and new and changing versus the slog of bipolarity.  This is interesting and new and changing.  

[Exar Kun -George]

1 hour ago, Cooper_ said:

And there you have it folks, we've gone full circle to claims of hegemony.  The nefarious plan to not lose build slots for a few weeks is going to break minispheres!  

I apologize if we did someone the disservice of not letting them get a free, unearned win on a demilitarized foe.  You come in here yapping about hegemony.  Please, what a joke.

Spheres interacting with each other, especially former rivals (i.e. "dynamism"), is exactly how it was imaged.  Politics was meant to be interesting and new and changing versus the slog of bipolarity.  This is interesting and new and changing.  

Your post and attempt to downplay is a joke and changes nothing. Look at the numbers, even with every other spheres in the game, fighting your new super blob still likleyresults in a loss.  So yes you actually nail the definition perfectly. 

 

This isnt diverse, this is pathetic and cowardly. Basicly the entire game has denounced the move at this point. I'm not sure how you guys think defending this action is a good idea 

[Sam Cooper]

6 hours ago, Cooper_ said:

Bitter rivals putting enmities aside to secure a political advantage is exactly how we envisioned the minispheres meta to be!

Sure but then will the Syndicate apologize to former Oasis and Mystery Inc alliances for joining clock against them for the exact same thing and agree that their war was unjustified? if not, does it mean that you two (TKR and Syndi) don't even agree what this agreement is for and are expecting different things out of it?

7 hours ago, Cooper_ said:

I'd also point out that the Oasis-Swamp treaty was directly in response to a war they knew was coming to try to consolidate out of their situation.

Exactly, they did it against a war they knew was coming, so they had a reason for their paranoia, you don't. And you think this is an argument in your favor. You can argue those alliances had a history of cooperation that somehow makes it different an MDP between former rivals, to which I would respond with "quack-quack!"

7 hours ago, Cooper_ said:

Neither Celestial or HW intends to fight a war together because of this agreement.

Cool, go ahead and remove article 3 to back this statement.

Call this gravedigging but I am seriously pissed lol, I will just quote your response to Isjaki's rant about the same infamous treaty that got myoasis rolled where you are impressed by clockwater's military response to said treaty and hope no one repeats this mistake, and here you are defending the same thing because it's your successor doing it this time. So now the thing that endangered the idea of minispheres has ironically become the very definition of minispheres.

[WarriorSoul]

9 minutes ago, Azazel said:

Your post and attempt to downplay is a joke and changes nothing. Look at the numbers, even with every other spheres in the game, fighting your new super blob still likleyresults in a loss.  So yes you actually nail the definition perfectly. 

 

This isnt diverse, this is pathetic and cowardly. Basicly the entire game has denounced the move at this point. I'm not sure how you guys think defending this action is a good idea 

The line that it’s some longstanding treaty between HW/Celestial is about as disingenuous as it gets, and you and everyone else pretending it’s anything more than a matter of convenience and pragmatism with a clearly-defined expiration that will likely go into effect in a matter of weeks is the only joke here.

 

But go on, get your outrage upvotes. It’s the only thing the talking heads in this wasteland are good for.

[Danzek]

8 hours ago, Cooper_ said:

Bitter rivals putting enmities aside to secure a political advantage is exactly how we envisioned the minispheres meta to be!

I mean, the main thing about minispheres is first to have mini spheres. Two spheres which are not mini and being much larger than the others and then on top of that having a NAP and MDP is the opposite. 

The point of minispheres is to create more opportunities and dynamics rather than for example; locking us into some bipolar political situation. Having spheres put aside grudges that locked us into repeating situations can be in service of creating new opportunities and dynamics. 

Again, the two larger spheres having an MDP and NAP does the opposite, it reduces opportunities, reduces possible dynamics and creates a situation of them, with 60% of the game whales, in a distinct position to the rest of the game. 

The Knights Radiant has been one of the biggest impediments and critics of minispheres. Notably with the formation and continuance of quack, then of hollywood, and now this. 

I'm sure you have to put up a front, but you're being incredibly disingenuous both with your definition of what minispheres are, and trying to lecture others on it. 

[Prefonteen]

9 hours ago, Azazel said:

HA! This may be how you or the top 3 alliances who combined forces *envisioned* it but I promise you a hegemonic power was definitely not everyone's elses goal or vision 

 

1 hour ago, Azazel said:

Your post and attempt to downplay is a joke and changes nothing. Look at the numbers, even with every other spheres in the game, fighting your new super blob still likleyresults in a loss.  So yes you actually nail the definition perfectly. 

 

This isnt diverse, this is pathetic and cowardly. Basicly the entire game has denounced the move at this point. I'm not sure how you guys think defending this action is a good idea 

Careful now. A few more of these claims and @Benfro and I might come out of retirement to sit down with our friends @Sweeeeet Ronny D and @Abbas Mehdi to make your fear a reality and become an *actual* hegemony.

Would you prefer we do that? Or shall we go back to realism mode and acknowledge that maybe your saber rattling isn basal fearmongering,  rather than a rational political assessment?

 

 

[Exar Kun -George]

2 hours ago, WarriorSoul said:

The line that it’s some longstanding treaty between HW/Celestial is about as disingenuous as it gets, and you and everyone else pretending it’s anything more than a matter of convenience and pragmatism with a clearly-defined expiration that will likely go into effect in a matter of weeks is the only joke here.

 

But go on, get your outrage upvotes. It’s the only thing the talking heads in this wasteland are good for.

I never said it is longstanding, what it does open up is precedent and a dangerous one at that. What stops you two from doing this every time a fight may not be convenient, other than your word? Your side acting like this is no big deal is the true disingenuous part of all of this. 

 

52 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Snip

Pre Friend, 

Id love to see this in a reverse situation, I am almost certain you would be ringing a different tune, the fact of the mater is the numbers do NOT lie. Your current MDP lineup makes it highly unlikely and near impossible to take you down even with the entirety of the game attempting to do so. Your claims of it being temporary is really irrelevant at best, a global power house that can not be beaten is a hegemonic power. I'm not using this term in a political sense, I am using it in its exact definition, its not my issue if you choose to ignore fact and keep grandstanding, that's your choice, however most people are not buying it. 

[Prefonteen]

1 minute ago, Azazel said:

I never said it is longstanding, what it does open up is precedent and a dangerous one at that. What stops you two from doing this every time a fight may not be convenient, other than your word? Your side acting like this is no big deal is the true disingenuous part of all of this. 

 

Pre Friend, 

Id love to see this in a reverse situation, I am almost certain you would be ringing a different tune, the fact of the mater is the numbers do NOT lie. Your current MDP lineup makes it highly unlikely and near impossible to take you down even with the entirety of the game attempting to do so. Your claims of it being temporary is really irrelevant at best, a global power house that can not be beaten is a hegemonic power. I'm not using this term in a political sense, I am using it in its exact definition, its not my issue if you choose to ignore fact and keep grandstanding, that's your choice, however most people are not buying it. 

@Prefontaine come pick up your man. He's confused.

[Exar Kun -George]

Just now, Prefonteen said:

@Prefontaine come pick up your man. He's confused.

Quite aware, I figured the "Friend" gave it away 

[Prefonteen]

12 minutes ago, Azazel said:

Quite aware, I figured the "Friend" gave it away 

Oh  no friend, I was referencing your rationale! I will indulge and bite however.

The agreement is a mutual demil with a safety guarantee and a well defined expiry date (end of current conflict). That does not make it a hegemonic powerhouse. There is no authority or influence being exerted by the joint forces of celestial-hw over others. Similarly, the context of unending hostility and rivalry between both spheres in combination with the limited nature of the agreement equates this more to something resembling the nuclear non-proliferation treaty between the soviets and the states during the cold war. Unless you want to claim that the cold war ended in '68, I don't think that the existence of such a treaty would mean the soviets and states were a joint, allied hegemony.

Similarly, the existence of this temporary (not claimed, as you say, but actually ratified within the ageement) agreement does not mark an end to the rivalry between both spheres. By definition, it is therefore impossible to consider us a hegemon: Neither party is dominant over the other, and therefore no hegemony can truly exist.

 

Are there any other terms or definitions you want to sling with to sound like you have an idea of what you are talking about, friend?

 

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Prefonteen

[Exar Kun -George]

24 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Are there any other terms or definitions you want to sling with to sound like you have an idea of what you are talking about, friend?

 

Friend, 

 

I think we both know the terminology/definition is slightly different irl and here, however I do appreciate you taking your time to research this in such detail so I will keep this short for you! When speaking of hegemonic powers in Orbis as a whole, in my experience most people are referring to a bloc or group of alliances that are unbeatable. As I've said before the numbers are pretty clear in this case and if you wish ill happy provide them to you, HollyRo$e can not be taken down even with a joint game wide response.  You attempting to use this power offensively is quite irrelevant. However I still fail to see the point about arguing over trivial matters like the definition of what your bloc is.

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Azazel

[Charles Bolivar]

20 minutes ago, Azazel said:

Friend, 

 

I think we both know the terminology/definition is slightly different irl and here, however I do appreciate you taking your time to research this in such detail so I will keep this short for you! When speaking of hegemonic powers in Orbis as a whole, in my experience most people are referring to a bloc or group of alliances that are unbeatable. As I've said before the numbers are pretty clear in this case and if you wish ill happy provide them to you, HollyRo$e can not be taken down even with a joint game wide response.  You attempting to use this power offensively is quite irrelevant. However I still fail to see the point about arguing over trivial matters like the definition of what your bloc is.

 

Name a single alliance from the multitudes who have been labelled as hegemonic over the years who haven't been eventually beaten?

No one is unbeatable.

[Prefonteen]

1 hour ago, Azazel said:

Friend, 

 

I think we both know the terminology/definition is slightly different irl and here, however I do appreciate you taking your time to research this in such detail so I will keep this short for you! When speaking of hegemonic powers in Orbis as a whole, in my experience most people are referring to a bloc or group of alliances that are unbeatable. As I've said before the numbers are pretty clear in this case and if you wish ill happy provide them to you, HollyRo$e can not be taken down even with a joint game wide response.  You attempting to use this power offensively is quite irrelevant. However I still fail to see the point about arguing over trivial matters like the definition of what your bloc is.

 

Friend. You can re-interpret the joint militarization agreement between Ro$e and Hollywood as many times as you wish to make your dreams of being crushed by an oppressive hegemony feel true. The human experience is subjective after all, and far be it from me to stand between a man and his reality, however far-fetched it may seem.

I will give you a cheat code however. Clock can singlehandedly end this "hegemony" whenever it feels like wrapping up its lopsided and (in my personal subjective experience which I hope you may respect as I do yours) cowardly field exercise on small, disorganized Backroom (for whom I happen to hold much love.  Hi @Daveth).

Your peace agreement after all, invokes the final article of the demilitarization agreement, thus sending us back to our old rivalry. The world saved. By you, George, Destroyer of hegemonies  and ghost of IQ.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Prefonteen

[Mayor]

2 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

 

Careful now. A few more of these claims and @Benfro and I might come out of retirement to sit down with our friends @Sweeeeet Ronny D and @Abbas Mehdi to make your fear a reality and become an *actual* hegemony.

Would you prefer we do that? Or shall we go back to realism mode and acknowledge that maybe your saber rattling isn basal fearmongering,  rather than a rational political assessment?

 

 

So this is the plan huh? We all wondered why Morf couldn't commit to not signing future MDPs with Celestial I guess it is because you guys plan to use this down the road in the future as well. I guess retired leaders are killing the game.

Jokes asides, still pathetic you guys trying to defend this trash heap of a treaty but as stated by many others I guess Syndicate has lost it's edge long ago.

[Prefonteen]

17 minutes ago, Mayor said:

So this is the plan huh? We all wondered why Morf couldn't commit to not signing future MDPs with Celestial I guess it is because you guys plan to use this down the road in the future as well. I guess retired leaders are killing the game.

Jokes asides, still pathetic you guys trying to defend this trash heap of a treaty but as stated by many others I guess Syndicate has lost it's edge long ago.

I crossed away all the fluff to get to the general core of pretty much all your posts these days.

Mayor, friend. What happened to your wit and originality? Where is that daring raider I once came to appreciate?

Partisan digs frantically  into the saltheap.

Mayor friend, where are you?

[Shiho Nishizumi]

5 hours ago, Sam Cooper said:

You can argue those alliances had a history of cooperation that somehow makes it different an MDP between former rivals, to which I would respond with "quack-quack!"

You're effectively talking about the t$-TKR relationship (one which history is filled with collaboration and confrontation alike, not exactly uncommon for relations this old), as neither Rose nor Grumpy were in Quack. Said relationship is also just one factor that plays a role in Celestial-HW relations.

Quack likewise does nothing to negate the fact that two of the three wars t$ partook in since Quack's dissolution involved TKR on the opposite camp. Perhaps too inconvenient a fact to be recognized by those criticizing us, but a fact nonetheless.

[Mayor]

18 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

I crossed away all the fluff to get to the general core of pretty much all your posts these days.

Mayor, friend. What happened to your wit and originality? Where is that daring raider I once came to appreciate?

Partisan digs frantically  into the saltheap.

Mayor friend, where are you?

You want to know the horrible truth? I can't even remember what he looked like.

[HeroofTime55]

2 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

I will give you a cheat code however. Clock can singlehandedly end this "hegemony" whenever it feels like wrapping up its lopsided and (in my personal subjective experience which I hope you may respect as I do yours) cowardly field exercise on small, disorganized Backroom (for whom I happen to hold much love.  Hi @Daveth).

How is Clock "cowardly" for responding to an effort, fully admitted to, to orchestrate a curbstomp against them?  It would be irresponsible to not punish the instigators of such a conspiracy.  You're a funny dude, dude.

[Cooper_]

7 hours ago, Sam Cooper said:

Call this gravedigging but I am seriously pissed lol, I will just quote your response to Isjaki's rant about the same infamous treaty that got myoasis rolled where you are impressed by clockwater's military response to said treaty and hope no one repeats this mistake, and here you are defending the same thing because it's your successor doing it this time. So now the thing that endangered the idea of minispheres has ironically become the very definition of minispheres.

How has minispheres been endangered by uninvolved spheres staying uninvolved in somebody else's war?  You can't just throw out non-sequiturs like "hegemony" or "minispheres in danger" just for shits and giggles.  There is no great disturbance to the political sphere equilibrium from the decision to take better advantage of peacetime build slots.  

What I assume is your premise is that HW and Celestial are now a single megasphere and going to fight wars together.  If that were the case, I'd be up in arms about it too.  It clearly isn't nor was there ever an intention from what I can see to fight together.  Do you want us to just demilitarize and let Clock/BR roll us for free?  

The reason why only Gorge is up here actually saying the quiet part out loud is because I think y'all are aware of how outrageous of a jump it is to go from conditional protection while at a militarization disadvantage to consolidation of spheres.  After the war ends, if Clock or BR wants to duke it out with us 1 v 1 without a militarization advantage, I'd say go ahead.  I know personally that TKR milcom would do anything for good, hard fight.

 

[KindaEpicMoah]

1 hour ago, Cooper_ said:

I know personally that TKR milcom would do anything for good, hard fight.

[Buorhann]

On 5/30/2022 at 5:18 AM, Borg said:

The Knights Radiant has been one of the biggest impediments and critics of minispheres. Notably with the formation and continuance of quack, then of hollywood, and now this. 

I'm sure you have to put up a front, but you're being incredibly disingenuous both with your definition of what minispheres are, and trying to lecture others on it. 

Huh?  Are you forgetting that they also gave it a shot with Chaos?  Completely severing all ties they had previously with other alliances in order to do that?

 

I hate having an opinion that would often side with the critics, and then watch them argue poorly with bad points to bring up.

Do you folks actually think before you try to argue and "One Up" the people you're attempting to debate/argue with?

Edited June 2, 2022 by Buorhann

[Thalmor]

6 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Huh?  Are you forgetting that they also gave it a shot with Chaos?  Completely severing all ties they had previously with other alliances in order to do that?

That was over four years ago.

[KiWilliam]

People change their opinions. We are not the same people we were four years ago.