Peace in our Time

[Alexander the Great]

[Yzard]

14 hours ago, Krampus said:

"Not Quite"

Hard to logic with that argument. They've won me over. I'll see if I can talk Clock into joining HollyRo$e too

[JamieGamie]

E

[Yzard]

14 hours ago, Zukran said:

Its pretty obvious Celestial and Hollywood don't have an interest in warring at the current time. However neither side can deescalate without making themselves open to attack from clock, which clock has a history of rolling one bloc then taking advantage of their already built military to attack another.(This literally just happened)

This agreement disincentives Clock rolling Celestial or Hollywood after the de-escalation. If Clock truly had no interest in attacking either of them, then I don't see what all the fuss is about. Unless another micro bloc wanted to attack Celestial or Hollywood, which I highly doubt. Then after the Clock - Backroom fiasco everything will be back to normal. This isn't a long term pact and Celestial and Hollywood will go right back to being rivals like they have been for years. To think this some how made a jumbo bloc is ridiculous. Both sides just want to deescalate from the situation but cover there butts from clock.

So... whats the issue? Why are we really upset?

It sets a terrible precedent. And already breaks another. People rolled Oasis and MInc for doing this exact thing. The amount of backlash Tyrion got was insane. Now some of those very same people have done the same thing Oasis Inc did (ironically both T$ and TI are part of the MDP)

 

As mentioned on Thalmor's show yesterday, how do we know you won't do it again? If in a few months time Clock declares on Johnsons or Haunted Mansion, what's stopping Ro$e and HW from making another MDP? Is this the new normal where HollyRo$e will never go to war because they'll treaty up at the first sign of conflict? Also how will you guys react if the other spheres made treaties too? Is this some special privilege for only HollyRo$e since the last guys who did this got rolled and then their spheres collapsed and their key leader (tyrion) stepped down?

[Arthur Wellington]

My leaders called you a bunch of big ol kittens. Did I say that right?

[Mayor]

6 hours ago, Who Me said:

Perhaps none of us want to waste out time, effort, money and resources with your sorry asses right now? Did you ever think of that?

I know thinking is not you peoples strong suit but you really should try it sometime.

Do you ever waste time on anything besides baseball though? (allegedly you don't even do that and use a bot to play for you). Seems to me all you do is waste time Who Me since this entire game you basically have not done anything at all besides lob a few nukes from time to time. Maybe take your own advice.

[Chad]

Just now, Mayor said:

Do you ever waste time on anything besides baseball though? (allegedly you don't even do that and use a bot to play for you). Seems to me all you do is waste time Who Me since this entire game you basically have not done anything at all besides lob a few nukes from time to time. Maybe take your own advice.

No way anyone uses bots thats impossible not like 1/3 2/3 of the active players do it.

[Mayor]

Just now, chad said:

No way anyone uses bots thats impossible not like 1/3 2/3 of the active players do it.

According to Sheepy he is the worst, borderline cheating, and has made billions through baseball. But other than using a bot, in his entire game life has accomplished nothing but being a joke of a player who uses nukes a lot.

[KindaEpicMoah]

19 minutes ago, Mayor said:

Do you ever waste time on anything besides baseball though? (allegedly you don't even do that and use a bot to play for you). Seems to me all you do is waste time Who Me since this entire game you basically have not done anything at all besides lob a few nukes from time to time. Maybe take your own advice.

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

1 hour ago, Sam Cooper said:

 

You keep dodging what you promised to address earlier and what Kev asked you here...

It is hilarious how HW and Ro$e keep defining traditional MDPs while arguing that this one in-fact is not a traditional MDP and keep trying to present it like it's some light hearted promise made over drinks that people do not need to think much about.

"Treaty only gets activated when either participant is under attack"
My friend that's literally how MDPs work, cutting down the duration does not affect how it's going to be used within that duration, if you are using it like an MDP, it is, by all means and definitions, a bloc wide MDP and somehow worse than Myoasis  inc because they were not the 2 biggest spheres in game and did not overpower the rest of the game on their own.

Did Kev ask me something? I've been busy with work, I might have missed a notification in there somewhere. @Kevanovia what did you ask me, mate? I'd never ignore my adoring fans.

[WarriorSoul]

6 hours ago, Blink said:

Weak move big politics 

local carpet beiger mad at strategy

[Velekk Hemlock]

10 hours ago, alyster said:

I am surprised by the ammount of butthurt here. For starters lets get to a point that this is not a secret treaty. Majority of the people crying over this here are from alliances who have had similar agreements left and right. No one just has posted them publicly. 
 

Secondly. Why does Clock think they get to keep doing double wars. Roll the Back Door, don’t rebuy infra and roll either Rose or HW while it’s cheap. Seems kinda boring.

Seems kind of hypocritical considering many of you rolled MyOasis for the exact same treaty. Especially considering that their treaty at least left them in a position to be rolled.

[Kevanovia]

18 minutes ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said:

Did Kev ask me something? I've been busy with work, I might have missed a notification in there somewhere. @Kevanovia what did you ask me, mate? I'd never ignore my adoring fans.

He had the quoted message in the message you just responded to for your convenience. But as you are busy and are unable to read the full posts you are replying to, I will post the question again:

13 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

 

This does set a bad precedent. Your argument is "well..it's not bad if there is nothing to worry about" - then why not do it every war? Then it effectively becomes acceptable for blocs to have MDP's with one another going forward in every single war when they aren't the first ones attacked. 

I've asked this question in several settings and have yet to receive an answer. It appears that everyone seems to be busy at the same time when this question comes up. Hopefully you can get some free time to read folks' complaints/thoughts on your recent move. With the additional context - perhaps your (and your kin's) rhetoric trying to justify said move will be able to address the concerns directly going forward.

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Kevanovia

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

did we go from article 3 to baseball in one page nah

Edited May 25, 2022 by Federative Woodstock
nah

[Valiant]

👍

[Hodor]

14 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

This does set a bad precedent. Your argument is "well..it's not bad if there is nothing to worry about" - then why not do it every war? Then it effectively becomes acceptable for blocs to have MDP's with one another going forward in every single war when they aren't the first ones attacked. 

 

34 minutes ago, Kevanovia said:

I've asked this question in several settings and have yet to receive an answer. It appears that everyone seems to be busy at the same time when this question comes up. Hopefully you can get some free time to read folks' complaints/thoughts on your recent move. With the additional context - perhaps your (and your kin's) rhetoric trying to justify said move will be able to address the concerns directly going forward.

 

2 hours ago, Hodor said:

Now, I was not super happy to hear this move was in the making specifically for article 3, but mostly because I think that moves like this should have consequences. When a move can be made regardless of any PR fallout because no one can do anything about it, some scrutiny is necessary. It's up to the rest of the game to stop !@#$ing here and determine what consequences they will force.

A large reason it isn't a precedent already is because Mystery and Oasis got their assess kicked for doing it.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Hodor

[Patrick Stewart]

13 minutes ago, Hodor said:

 

 

A large reason it isn't a precedent already is because Mystery and Oasis got their assess kicked for doing it.

And this is relevant because?

[Prefonteen]

3 hours ago, Hodor said:

Happy to clarify and, hopefully, rally people to channel their angst elsewhere.

This move is incredibly pragmatic. For Ro$e and HW, it is only beneficial. We have 1) guaranteed our security while two smaller spheres fight and 2) have opened more cordial diplomatic channels with each other hopefully breaking a tradition of distrust.

The risks of taking this move are minimal. Neither BR, Clock, or their combined forces are in any position to do anything about it. If it were made privately, there would be more fallout, but arguably it would be justified because it would only be found out if Clock made a move to attack ro$e or HW. It being made publicly eliminates at least the "SEKRIT TREATY" argument and actively deters any moves against the parties involved (which, many have hinted here, it may have done).

Now, I was not super happy to hear this move was in the making specifically for article 3, but mostly because I think that moves like this should have consequences. When a move can be made regardless of any PR fallout because no one can do anything about it, some scrutiny is necessary. It's up to the rest of the game to stop !@#$ing here and determine what consequences they will force.

I, personally, think that #2 above is worth the fallout and any potential consequences. I am so damn tired of fighting t$ and its allies. We were in a good position (see Parti's post) to hit ro$e next war. The ro$e treaty was negatively received by third parties and during/after our last war with t$ there were many WoT posts directed at t$ to address it's FA policy. But, to keep up this pattern would be so unbelievably stupid and, as you all say, stagnant.

That all being said, I think we need to take a look at the mechanics of the game here. We keep yelling at each other for making moves which are unarguably beneficial to the parties involved. But what incentive is there to switch it up other than to take enormous risk and promote an alternative path forward within a system that actively inhibits it? Let's look at the state of things as I see them:

1. Very few wars are now fought in which the winner is not known from the outcome. Therefore, no alliance is incentivized to start a war unless their victory is all but assured. This is pragmatic but boring.

2. Wars are won largely by first strike advantage buoyed by an extra day of militarization and greatly helped by some advantage in the whale tiers. Therefore alliances will largely look to start offensive wars and consolidate whales. This is also boring and makes CBs out of thin air to secure a first strike advantage.

3. War lengths are determined by the tiering of the fighting parties. Longer wars benefit lower tiers, shorter wars benefit whale tiers. So, if you've successfully launched an aggressive war with ample whale tiers, you're gonna smack someone around for a while then offer peace. If you're going whale hunting, you're going to drag out a war forever to do as much damage to those whales. Neither of these are particularly fun for either party outside of stat padders.

4. Wars are fricking stupid in this game, mechanically. If you are facing a competent enemy and are on the defensive, after the first round, you're done. Now you sit and clear the notifications as your nation burns. If you're facing an incompetent enemy and are on the defensive, it takes a level of involvement that most don't have to punch holes in their attack and counter. Wars are simultaneously very expensive and not nearly expensive enough and I have no idea how to fix this, but I think this is where we need to start. If we fix the war mechanics the impacts will flow down and affect the incentive structures of points 1-3. I am not smart enough to figure out what needs to change, but I do think that it's not controversial at all to say that if the primary tool of sphere interactions (war) is broken, so too will be the sphere interactions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hodor.

Hodor is right.

2 hours ago, Alexander the Great said:

Literally everyone not part of your ridiculous game-breaking and frankly cowardly megasphere (and part of the people in said megasphere). Be. Seated.

Friend can you give me a definition of what a sphere is?

[Hodor]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Stewart said:

And this is relevant because?

People like you are the worst. Just read. But, I won't fight bad manners with more of the same and not deliver some value:

1. Precedents stick because they work.

2. This isn't a precedent because it didn't work before (Mystery and Oasis got the shit kicked out of them).

3. It isn't likely to be a precedent if you all make sure it doesn't work/has consequences that disincentivize it.

4. It also isn't likely to be a precedent unless those involved in the agreement have the combined strength to disincentivize other from challenging it.

 

3 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Hodor is right.

Welcome back to being on the same (correct) side, friend!

Edited May 25, 2022 by Hodor

[Patrick Stewart]

2 minutes ago, Hodor said:

People like you are the worst. Just read. But, I won't fight bad manners with more of the same and not deliver some value:

1. Precedents stick because they work.

2. This isn't a precedent because it didn't work before (Mystery and Oasis got the shit kicked out of them).

3. It isn't likely to be a precedent if you all make sure it doesn't work/has consequences that disincentivize it.

4. It also isn't likely to be a precedent unless those involved in the agreement have the combined strength to disincentivize other from challenging it.

 

Welcome back to being on the same (correct) side, friend!

Dear Hodor,

 

I am a little bit confused on what you mean by consequences, please could you clarify what you are implying in point number 3?

 

Kind Regards,

Patrick Stewart

[Hodor]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Stewart said:

Dear Hodor,

Kind Regards,

Patrick Stewart

Touche.

Well, kicking the shit out of Mystery and Oasis seemed to do the trick.

[spoiler]

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Hodor

[alyster]

1 hour ago, Velekk Hemlock said:

Seems kind of hypocritical considering many of you rolled MyOasis for the exact same treaty. Especially considering that their treaty at least left them in a position to be rolled.

Correct my memory but wasn’t that Clock rolling them? 

[His Holy Decagon]

3 minutes ago, Hodor said:

Well, kicking the shit out of Mystery and Oasis seemed to do the trick.

And, with the two parties involved being the only parties who could plausibly “kick the shit out of” each other, I’m grasping at a good narrative here, please help

[Hodor]

Just now, His Holy Decagon said:

And, with the two parties involved being the only parties who could plausibly “kick the shit out of” each other, I’m grasping at a good narrative here, please help

 

21 minutes ago, Hodor said:

4. It also isn't likely to be a precedent unless those involved in the agreement have the combined strength to disincentivize others from challenging it.

 

5 minutes ago, Hodor said:

[spoiler]

 

I'm doing a lot of work trying to help y'all understand something that is super detrimental to me.

[Velekk Hemlock]

Just now, alyster said:

Correct my memory but wasn’t that Clock rolling them? 

I'm talking about T$ And even then, Clock's opinion on these kinds of things would appear to have not changed very much. It's incredible to call people butthurt for still being mad when your people do something that it used to be just as "Butthurt" about.