Mayor Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 5 hours ago, Quichwe10 said: Wait, when was this? Maybe it was a raid, I can't remember. I remember paperless alliances attacked and raided TFP a few times and we even protected them for a bit after that. TFP always had a good reputation in Arrgh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kevanovia Posted April 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted April 11, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Kurdanak said: From one high-horse to another, I respect the grandstand, but you keep deflecting away from the inherent toxicity in imposing this on a sphere as a peace term. And again, it's certainly lighter and more helpful than your original terms of enforced MMR on Fark and a sphere name change that opens HM up to being meme'd on indefinitely (just because it's fun for you, does not mean that it's fun for those taking the brunt of your jokes). I'm glad some folks like hidude are making the best out of the situation, genuinely, but I go back to my issue here in the first place - that in order to obtain peace after having been rolled by the Johnson's (and their handy-dandy mercenary safety net), HM is required to make this server. The foundation is dirty and disrespectful, even if followed up by admirable clean action by the community. I believe that feedback is best received when done so voluntarily - your approach risks alienating several of those you claim to be trying to help out (evidently, considering the backlash from some HM gov). It's understandable to be rubbed the wrong way by having the guys who just rolled you then sit you down to have your internal affairs criticized. Is it really that shocking that several, even outside of Big Bad Rose, are reacting cynically to what you did? And on that note, regarding your Rose-based rhetoric there, lmfao, guess some of my gov didn't make you happy. Sorry, but I'm speaking for myself here, Kev. Obviously a positive conversation around improvement is possible; I just listed multiple ways in my quoted post, ways to help out an individual/alliance/sphere without some pretentious help term presented as for HM's own good. Again, good on the individuals making the best out of this. I just think that there are far, far better ways to go about giving advice than this. Ways that, believe it or not, people are using and will continue to do so. May we both have positive results! "Toxic" and "toxicity"; You keep using these terms, I don't believe we have the same understanding on what they mean. They could have rejected the term and we could have found another path to go down (as we did with the 'meme' terms). But I'm glad that the conversation went the way where HM and Johnsons could come together on it and I believe the result has been positive, in spite of the attempts of certain people to paint this scenario as something different than what it is. You also keep saying that the "foundation is dirty and disrespectful", whereas the foundation of the terms were rooted in attempting to help HM alliances become more viable in the political arena to help make Orbis more interesting and dynamic. Luckily it looks like the talks are going in a positive manner, as we envisioned. In regards to your comment about my "Rose-based rhetoric". I was disappointed in some of your gov trying to push so hard that the server was toxic, as it was getting to the point of it seeming like you guys wanted it to be toxic. Claims of people saying it was "impossible" not to be toxic, and you yourself saying that it was a "heavy if" for the talks to be productive. Low and behold, talks are going as I had thought and the supposed "impossible" has become possible. With the experience of Rose, I would think it would have been easy to see the efforts going into the way the terms were being implemented as a positive. I know in the past the way Rose likes to give advice is through putting these alliances that are learning in their pocket to use at a later time. It will be tough for you to deny this as even your current treaty partners had (have) this belief. Unfortunately, that method hasn't really seen a ton of benefit for alliances that have taken that route with Rose. Not only do we not see these alliances on the political stage, we also see them suffering other consequences. More recently, we have seen alliances lose their entire gov to Rose or alternatively have been thrown out on the street (RIP Mile High). This server is not only a great example to show that we can be on opposite sides and speak in a civil manner about perceived opportunities, it also allows people to give advice to these alliances without attaching strings on said advice. Perhaps that's what Rose is so upset about 🤷♂️ Edited April 11, 2022 by Kevanovia 2 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Traveler Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quichwe10 Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, Mayor said: Maybe it was a raid, I can't remember. I remember paperless alliances attacked and raided TFP a few times and we even protected them for a bit after that. TFP always had a good reputation in Arrgh. I remember TFP getting whacked a few times, from Arrgh, Mensa, and basically everyone else and their grandmother, but I don't remember ever getting tips. Like seriously, we were insular as !@#$. Only person who had any big idea what was happening on the broad Orbis stage was like Cromwell and maybe some of the OG TFP members. A lot of times when I go back to every time past me went, holy shit, steel is 5k PPU, it's because there was a whole war we basically ignored. First time I remember getting tips was when we were trying to finalize stuff with TEst and I was a fervent believer in TFP direct democracy. Edited April 12, 2022 by Quichwe10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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